Ready to look?

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Canfora
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Ready to look?

Postby Canfora » Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:27 pm

Hi and welcome to the LU Forum.

If you are ready to engage in a conversation with a guide, I'm available.

You can read the LU disclaimer here: http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

And there are a few guidelines to this process:

1. You agree to post at least once a day.

2. In general, I will ask the questions for you to respond to

3. Responses require your utmost honesty

4. Responses are best from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Longwinded
analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.

5. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation.
Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and
essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.

6. Please learn to use the quote function; instructions are located in the link below this line:
http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660


If all this is ok with you, tell me about yourself. How did you find LU and what kind of "path" brought you here?

Sandra

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jennie
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Re: Ready to look?

Postby jennie » Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:57 pm

Hi, I am ready to look! I have been engaged in spirituality pretty intently for about a year now. I came to it out of deep suffering, and have been following the teachings of Adyashanti which have been transformative for me. I have a daily meditation practice, following Adya's guidelines of "true meditation" and I am totally ready to look even deeper into myself to find out the truth of my existence. I have been using the Enlightening Quotes app from Liberation Unleashed each day, as well.
If you will be my guide, thank you!!
Jennie

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jennie
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Re: Ready to look?

Postby jennie » Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:14 am

Also, I've read the disclaimer, and agree to the guidelines.
And, I'm seeing if I can use the quote feature:
Please learn to use the quote function; instructions are located in the link below this line
Looking forward to this investigation very much!! :)

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Canfora
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Re: Ready to look?

Postby Canfora » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:50 am

Hi Jennie, thank you for answering. I'm very happy to guide you :)
If something I say sounds unclear feel free to ask questions. English isn't my first language and sometimes I wonder if what I say is clear or not (although that never was an issue before).

Are you willing to stop listening and reading what other people have to say about "spiritual matters" during our conversation? Our goal is to make you look for yourself, in your experience, without trying to make your experience "fit" what others say about their experience!

I would like to know what are your thoughts about what you say here:
I am totally ready to look even deeper into myself to find out the truth of my existence
What is this "myself" in your experience? How do you know this self exists?

I would also like to know what are your expectations. What do you think will change when you see the self is an illusion?

And if you consider the possibility that the self does not exists, do you feel fear or any resistance? What happens in your experience when you consider that what you think you are... isn't?

Looking forward to your answers,
Sandra

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jennie
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Re: Ready to look?

Postby jennie » Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:13 pm

Hi Sandra, Yes I'm willing to stop listening and reading about what other people say about spiritual matters during this investigation. How long do you think it will take? I am willing to question everything and look for myself. I want to know directly for myself. I am very committed to this, and will be as honest as I can in my answers. I am very serious about finding the truth for myself. Thanks so very much for being my guide!
What is this "myself" in your experience? How do you know this self exists?
This "myself" is the self I have always known. It is the self I wake up as each morning. It is the means through which I experience the world (by thinking, feeling, sensing, talking, making choices, doing things, relating to others, etc.). I have a body that is distinct from everything else around me. I can only know what I am thinking, and what is happening inside my body. I cannot know what is happening inside the body/mind of another person. I can make decisions and then act on those decisions. Right now I "know" this "self" exists because my body and mind feel separate from everything else around me, and I am aware of functioning through and being present/alive inside this body/mind that is familiar/known to me.
I would also like to know what are your expectations. What do you think will change when you see the self is an illusion?
I think I will be liberated! I think I will live much more in harmony with Reality, with what is. I think I will not suffer any more (or a lot less). I think at this point in my journey, it will feel like a relief. I think I will live with much more clarity about life. I think I will not live in illusions, or unconscious beliefs, or stories, or my past conditioning any more. I will see things as they are. I will be free. I think it would be quite astonishing to see truly that here is no self... I think then my life would have to find a different point of orientation, maybe. If there is no me to want things, to need things, to have desires/aversions, to have a story to believe, etc. then what will move me through life? I think I will be moved by something deeper.
And if you consider the possibility that the self does not exists, do you feel fear or any resistance? What happens in your experience when you consider that what you think you are... isn't?
Mostly, right now, when I consider this, I feel a strange happiness... like there is a "knowing smile" glowing inside me. I also feel a deep sense of relief. But also some incredulousness and confusion, as how will I function/operate in the world? All of our history as a humanity is founded on this belief in separate selves. How can 99.99% of humans have missed this, or gotten it so wrong?!?? So if I see through this, I wonder how I will relate to other people. I do feel a fear/resistance that comes from a feeling of "leaving my loved ones behind". How will they relate to/understand me anymore?

So, right now I am well aware of the abstract nature of thoughts. I am aware that no thought is real. They are just passing, floating things, with no basis in reality. I can sense that concepts, ideas, opinions, stories, labels, judgements, beliefs, etc. are unable to be touched. They are empty of "realness". So in this sense, my mind feels a lot less "real" than my body, which can be touched and known/sensed directly.
I have suffered a lot in my life and I think this suffering has already broken down quite a lot of the typical investment in self, and the story of self. I'm not so interested in the story of a separate Jennie anymore. It already feels like it will not be able to sustain the Truth, like it is weak at best.

Warmly,
Jennie

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Canfora
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Re: Ready to look?

Postby Canfora » Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:09 pm

Hi Jennie! Thank you for your nice answers!
Yes I'm willing to stop listening and reading about what other people say about spiritual matters during this investigation. How long do you think it will take?
Good. I have no idea of the time it will take. I advise you not to worry with time and enjoy this process - this can be quite a ride if you open to it.
I want to know directly for myself. I am very committed to this, and will be as honest as I can in my answers. I am very serious about finding the truth for myself. Thanks so very much for being my guide!
That's the spirit! You're very welcome :)
This "myself" is the self I have always known. It is the self I wake up as each morning. It is the means through which I experience the world (by thinking, feeling, sensing, talking, making choices, doing things, relating to others, etc.). I have a body that is distinct from everything else around me. I can only know what I am thinking, and what is happening inside my body. I cannot know what is happening inside the body/mind of another person. I can make decisions and then act on those decisions. Right now I "know" this "self" exists because my body and mind feel separate from everything else around me, and I am aware of functioning through and being present/alive inside this body/mind that is familiar/known to me.
Very nice answer, thank you.
I think I will be liberated! I think I will live much more in harmony with Reality, with what is. I think I will not suffer any more (or a lot less). I think at this point in my journey, it will feel like a relief. I think I will live with much more clarity about life. I think I will not live in illusions, or unconscious beliefs, or stories, or my past conditioning any more. I will see things as they are. I will be free. I think it would be quite astonishing to see truly that here is no self... I think then my life would have to find a different point of orientation, maybe. If there is no me to want things, to need things, to have desires/aversions, to have a story to believe, etc. then what will move me through life? I think I will be moved by something deeper.
Good, no unrealistic expectations. It's possible that all, some or none of your expectations will happen but in my experience life rarely goes the way I think and wish and I guess that if you look to the "story of you" you can also see that you may think things are going to happen a certain way, only to find out that they don't. Reality doesn't care about our expectations. If you read your expectations above you will see that expectations are also always about an imaginary future. So, I'm going to ask you to try to do this "investigation" without expecting a specific result. Like if you’re looking to life for the first time, with clear, fresh eyes. Like if you never looked to what is going on before. This is about the simple seeing of reality as it already is before thoughts start creating a story about what is happening.
Mostly, right now, when I consider this, I feel a strange happiness... like there is a "knowing smile" glowing inside me. I also feel a deep sense of relief. But also some incredulousness and confusion, as how will I function/operate in the world? All of our history as a humanity is founded on this belief in separate selves. How can 99.99% of humans have missed this, or gotten it so wrong?!?? So if I see through this, I wonder how I will relate to other people. I do feel a fear/resistance that comes from a feeling of "leaving my loved ones behind". How will they relate to/understand me anymore?
Hmm... so when you focus in the feelings all is right and when you start thinking doubts and fears "pop up".

Please let me know if fear, resistance, strong emotions arise because of this conversation so we can look to them more deeply. At the moment, I'm going to ask you to consider that, if there is no separate self in reality, then this self never existed and everything is already happening without this self. No real reason to be scared :)
So, right now I am well aware of the abstract nature of thoughts. I am aware that no thought is real. They are just passing, floating things, with no basis in reality. I can sense that concepts, ideas, opinions, stories, labels, judgements, beliefs, etc. are unable to be touched. They are empty of "realness". So in this sense, my mind feels a lot less "real" than my body, which can be touched and known/sensed directly.
I have suffered a lot in my life and I think this suffering has already broken down quite a lot of the typical investment in self, and the story of self. I'm not so interested in the story of a separate Jennie anymore. It already feels like it will not be able to sustain the Truth, like it is weak at best.
Let's begin by talking about body. Please take your time looking to what is going on here and now before answering my questions. I don't want to know what you think about something - I want you to describe your experience the best as you can. By "looking" I mean using your senses: seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling - instead of relying on thoughts (there is a nice article about direct experience here: http://liberationunleashed.com/articles ... xperience/).
my mind feels a lot less "real" than my body, which can be touched and known/sensed directly
How is body experienced? Is body more than sensations + images + labels like "body"?
Can a self be experienced inside the body?
Is body you?

If I'm going too fast or if you have any doubts, please tell me!

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Re: Ready to look?

Postby jennie » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:02 pm

Hi Sandra,
I'll try my best to do this:
So, I'm going to ask you to try to do this "investigation" without expecting a specific result. Like if you’re looking to life for the first time, with clear, fresh eyes. Like if you never looked to what is going on before. This is about the simple seeing of reality as it already is before thoughts start creating a story about what is happening.
Well, I really am sooo excited. Maybe fear might arise later, but right now it is mostly excitement.
How is body experienced? Is body more than sensations + images + labels like "body"?
My body is experienced as an outer layer of skin and everything inside that. But I kind of feel like this is just a thought or label, now, so I'm not sure.

My body is experienced as moving, eating, driving, talking, walking, working etc. I am aware that my body often does things without me having to think about it. But I also have the experience of having a thought, and then acting on the thought. For instance, thinking "I need to change the laundry" and then getting up to do this.
So, right now, my body is experienced as the vehicle through which I move through life. When I look in the mirror, I recognize my body as "me". I feel like I have control over my body, for instance, I think: "I want to move my foot" and then I can move my foot accordingly. Or I think: "I need to cross the street" and then I do. So, I guess I feel that there is "someone" running the show. But I can't exactly say where that someone is.
Can a self be experienced inside the body?
Well, I don't know. It feels like something is reading/writing these words. It feels like I have some control over it, like I can choose to start or stop at any time. But at the same time, I am aware of "gaps" where my body moves and acts without any notion of "self" being present. I think right now, mostly I experience a self as in my head, as one that looks out my eyes, that talks, that thinks, etc. But even that is not there all the time.
Is body you?
No. I am not my body. I don't know what I am. I have a feeling of being in my body.

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Canfora
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Re: Ready to look?

Postby Canfora » Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:04 pm

Hi, Jennie.
I'll try my best to do this:
Well, I really am sooo excited. Maybe fear might arise later, but right now it is mostly excitement.
:)

Thank you for your answers. I'm not going to address all you're saying because I want us to keep focused and having many things to look at once can be confusing.
My body is experienced as an outer layer of skin and everything inside that. But I kind of feel like this is just a thought or label, now, so I'm not sure.
Since you're not sure, can you please check again? This is easier if you are in a quiet place with eyes closed.
Can you experience "an outer layer of skin" and "everything inside that"? Or in experience there are only sensations to be found? Can you sense any borders, an inside and an outside? An "I" that begins here and a world that begins there?

We think we are a you inside a body experiencing an outer world - but can you experience separation?

Could it be that "an outer layer of skin" and "everything inside that" are just thoughts added to what is being sensed?
No. I am not my body. I don't know what I am. I have a feeling of being in my body.
Why do you say you're not your body?

Are you clear that there is no entity operating the body like in the image below :) ? No you among what makes the body a body - cells, organs, bones... ?

Image

Is the sensation, feeling of being in "my body" something that must change or can you see it's just a sensation, a feeling? Can a feeling, a sensation, be a you?

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jennie
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Re: Ready to look?

Postby jennie » Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:35 pm

Hi Sandra,
Since you're not sure, can you please check again? This is easier if you are in a quiet place with eyes closed.
Can you experience "an outer layer of skin" and "everything inside that"? Or in experience there are only sensations to be found? Can you sense any borders, an inside and an outside? An "I" that begins here and a world that begins there?
When I close my eyes, and look inside, I experience a (not sure what to call it) "silent space". And I am aware that this silence space "inside" me is exactly the same as the silent space "outside" me. I am aware of sensations existing in that space, for instance, pain, tingling, pressure. I see that, for instance, I feel a sensation of pressure in my knee, and then label it "knee", but really the word "knee" is just a thought. All that actually exists is the feeling or sensation.
I cannot sense a definite border around my body. I see that all that exist are sensations in space. I only see this when I close my eyes and really look. As soon as I open my eyes, I can see a boundary to my body.
I cannot sense a beginning or end to the "I".
We think we are a you inside a body experiencing an outer world - but can you experience separation?
When I close my eyes, I do not know where "I" begin. I can see that there is no separation between my inner and outer world. There is just space. A single space.
Could it be that "an outer layer of skin" and "everything inside that" are just thoughts added to what is being sensed?
Yes, I see that these are just thoughts. They have no meaning. How they feel to me now are just random words strung together.
Why do you say you're not your body?
I am not my body because I am aware of my body. When I close my eyes, and even look for my body, I experience a kind of looking into emptiness. It seems there is nothing there, but feelings, sensations.
Are you clear that there is no entity operating the body like in the image below :) ? No you among what makes the body a body - cells, organs, bones... ?
Yes :)
Is the sensation, feeling of being in "my body" something that must change or can you see it's just a sensation, a feeling? Can a feeling, a sensation, be a you?
I can see that it is just a feeling. I cannot be a feeling, because I am the one aware of the feeling, the one who witnesses the feeling.

I experience all of this when I close my eyes. When I open my eyes and look, it still seems like I have a body, the body I can see.

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Canfora
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Re: Ready to look?

Postby Canfora » Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:14 pm

Hi Jennie,

Those are very nice answers, thank you for looking :)

Let's move on and have a look at thinking next:

Where are thoughts coming from? To where are they going?

Are thoughts "archived" in a contentor, in "memory"?

Is "the story of you" present here and now - or is the story only real has thought content?

When the content of thoughts is about the past or about the future, can thinking create a real experience of past or future?

Can more than one thought be experienced at the same time?

Can a thought think another thought?

And can you see some-thing that is causing the thinking? Can a thinker be experienced, an owner and doer of thinking?

Is the "I" that is supposed to be thinking more than a thought? Can thought create a you?

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Re: Ready to look?

Postby jennie » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:11 am

Hi Sandra,
Thanks for the questions. :)
Where are thoughts coming from? To where are they going?
The thoughts come from nowhere. They spontaneously emerge in my mind. They seem to be related to some event that has happened/is happening/might happen. A thought emerges in my mind, and then after some time, it disappears. It disappears into nowhere.
Are thoughts "archived" in a contentor, in "memory"?
I don't know exactly what you are asking in this question. So, I don't know. I have repetitive patterns of thinking... similar thoughts that come up again and again. Thoughts that are "familiar" to me. I don't know why some thoughts come up more than others. I don't know why I think one way about an event, and not another way. It seems that I have the same kind of thoughts over and over again.
Is "the story of you" present here and now - or is the story only real has thought content?
The story is only real as thought content! And I am not the thought "I" or the thought "me". So, when the story of me starts to play, it is referring to an entity that is not even me. Even realizing this, I can still get caught in the story often.
When the content of thoughts is about the past or about the future, can thinking create a real experience of past or future?
No, thinking cannot create a real experience of past or future. Thoughts aren't the real thing.
Can more than one thought be experienced at the same time?
Not that I know of, although, maybe an unconscious thought (a thought I'm not aware of having) and a conscious thought (a thought I am aware of having) could be experienced at the same time.
Can a thought think another thought?
No, a thought is a finite, and in some sense, dead, thing. It is just a bunch of words strung together. It has no ability to think.
And can you see some-thing that is causing the thinking? Can a thinker be experienced, an owner and doer of thinking?
I am well aware that I do not have control over my thoughts. I do not determine when they arise or disappear or what is the content of them. This is sometimes very frustrating for me, and causes suffering. Sometimes I try to change my thinking pattern, and I can do this, it seems. I can choose to think new thoughts. But when I look closer, I can find nothing that is in control or causing the thinking. So I'm not sure how that works. I look back and encounter nothing.
Is the "I" that is supposed to be thinking more than a thought? Can thought create a you?
I don't feel that "I" am thinking. Because I know that I don't choose my thoughts. I have a lot of thoughts that are about "I" and "me". So I have been watching them intently. I know that I am not the content of a thought. I don't know what the "I" of these thoughts is.
No, a thought cannot create me. I am before all thoughts.

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Re: Ready to look?

Postby Canfora » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:13 pm

Hi Jennie,
The thoughts come from nowhere. They spontaneously emerge in my mind. They seem to be related to some event that has happened/is happening/might happen. A thought emerges in my mind, and then after some time, it disappears. It disappears into nowhere.
Can you experience "mind" or is mind a concept, a thought?
I don't know exactly what you are asking in this question. So, I don't know. I have repetitive patterns of thinking... similar thoughts that come up again and again. Thoughts that are "familiar" to me. I don't know why some thoughts come up more than others. I don't know why I think one way about an event, and not another way. It seems that I have the same kind of thoughts over and over again.
Same here. Maybe it's a question of habit, of conditioning ( <--- this is the story that pops up about what you're saying. It's truer that I don't know why thoughts seem to do what they do!). Anyway, would you say that these thoughts are yours, that this repetition is in some way personal? Or, if you look at thoughts, do they feel more like the same "radio show" playing over and over again?

What causes the identification with thought stories? Is it the belief that thoughts are about you?
The story is only real as thought content! And I am not the thought "I" or the thought "me". So, when the story of me starts to play, it is referring to an entity that is not even me. Even realizing this, I can still get caught in the story often.
Nice. I understand what you're saying but isn't "getting caught in the story" just a story about what is happening? If you look to what is here now, can you find this character, this separate entity that can get caught in the story? Or the story itself?
No, thinking cannot create a real experience of past or future. Thoughts aren't the real thing.
Yes, fortunately :) The experience of thinking is a real experience, the content is not.
Sandra: Can more than one thought be experienced at the same time?
Jennie: Not that I know of, although, maybe an unconscious thought (a thought I'm not aware of having) and a conscious thought (a thought I am aware of having) could be experienced at the same time.
How would you know that something that you aren't experiencing with the senses is happening? Isn't this a supposition, a thought? Have a look at the way thoughts are happening right now, please. Can an unconscious thought be experienced? How would you know this to be true?
Sandra: Can a thought think another thought?
Jennie: No, a thought is a finite, and in some sense, dead, thing. It is just a bunch of words strung together. It has no ability to think.
Yes, the content of a thought is an image or a word, letters, language. I wouldn't say thoughts are a thing. "Thing" makes me think of cups, mobiles, pens, objects. The way thinking is perceived is different, thoughts are more like air - we know (think) air is supposed to be here although we don't see air if we look. And we also can't see thoughts when we look. It's curious that something that isn't apparent when we look around us can have such an impact in our lives!
Sandra: And can you see some-thing that is causing the thinking? Can a thinker be experienced, an owner and doer of thinking?
Jennie: I am well aware that I do not have control over my thoughts. I do not determine when they arise or disappear or what is the content of them. This is sometimes very frustrating for me, and causes suffering. Sometimes I try to change my thinking pattern, and I can do this, it seems. I can choose to think new thoughts. But when I look closer, I can find nothing that is in control or causing the thinking. So I'm not sure how that works. I look back and encounter nothing.
In the answer below you mention that you know you don't choose thoughts but in this paragraph ^ it seems you have some doubts, so I'm going to ask some more questions around the possibility of controlling thoughts:

What is your proof that you can choose what thoughts to think? Is it a thought saying that you can? :)

Can you only think happy thoughts for the next hour or not think at all?

Can a thought control a thought?

Can you SEE a controller of thoughts?
Sandra: Is the "I" that is supposed to be thinking more than a thought? Can thought create a you?
Jennie: I don't feel that "I" am thinking. Because I know that I don't choose my thoughts. I have a lot of thoughts that are about "I" and "me". So I have been watching them intently. I know that I am not the content of a thought. I don't know what the "I" of these thoughts is.
No, a thought cannot create me. I am before all thoughts.
So, what can you see right now in your experience that is this "I am"?

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Re: Ready to look?

Postby jennie » Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:48 am

Hi Sandra,
This is getting challenging... that is good, though!
Can you experience "mind" or is mind a concept, a thought?
No, I can't experience mind. I can only experience thinking. "Mind" is just a label. Other things like "memory" are also just labels for thinking.
Anyway, would you say that these thoughts are yours, that this repetition is in some way personal? Or, if you look at thoughts, do they feel more like the same "radio show" playing over and over again?
Well, the thoughts do feel like they are mine. Because, I guess if you get right down to it, if I stopped thinking them, "I" would stop existing. These are all the opinions, beliefs, stories that make "me" me.
What causes the identification with thought stories? Is it the belief that thoughts are about you?
Yes, there are some thoughts that I believe are about me, and other thoughts that I don't believe are about me.
A lot of these thought stories are full imaginings, about the future, for instance. Or they are memories of the past.
I do not know why I believe some thoughts and not others. For instance, I am aware of song lyrics that replay in my mind, and I do not mistake this kind of thinking to be me. I do not believe these thoughts are about me. Other thoughts that come with the word "I" - I do believe these are about me, well, they are about this character, Jennie.
I understand what you're saying but isn't "getting caught in the story" just a story about what is happening? If you look to what is here now, can you find this character, this separate entity that can get caught in the story? Or the story itself?
If I look to what is here now, and try to find the one that "believes" thoughts, I am aware of just thoughts being believed. I am aware of thoughts following feelings and feelings following thoughts. When the thoughts disappear, the character and the story disappear. It is the feelings associated with the thoughts that make them feel real. I feel the feelings in my body. For instance, the thought arises, "I miss (someone)." And then, I feel the sadness in my body. So it feels real to me. This is a story that replays in my mind often.
Sandra: Can more than one thought be experienced at the same time?
Jennie: Not that I know of, although, maybe an unconscious thought (a thought I'm not aware of having) and a conscious thought (a thought I am aware of having) could be experienced at the same time.
Sandra: How would you know that something that you aren't experiencing with the senses is happening? Isn't this a supposition, a thought? Have a look at the way thoughts are happening right now, please. Can an unconscious thought be experienced? How would you know this to be true?
No, an unconscious thought cannot be experienced here and now!
It's curious that something that isn't apparent when we look around us can have such an impact in our lives!
Yes! The more I look at thoughts, the more curious they become. What exactly are they! What is going on here?!?!
What is your proof that you can choose what thoughts to think? Is it a thought saying that you can? :)
This is challenging! (that's a thought) Well, I have a thought about what I want to think. And then I think that thought.
But really, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT COMES BEFORE A THOUGHT. So I cannot find any proof that I can choose what thought to think. The "I" that is in a thought certainly has no power at all.
Can you only think happy thoughts for the next hour or not think at all?
No, I don't have this power. Thoughts will come as they come. The most I can do is be incredibly alert to them/witness them consciously.
Can a thought control a thought?
Well it seems thoughts attract more of the same kind of thoughts, especially negative thoughts. It seems thoughts, especially those that tell a story, occur in a sequential fashion, and one leads to another.
Can you SEE a controller of thoughts?
No... I can "see" the thoughts when they pop into existence. I cannot see before that.
So, what can you see right now in your experience that is this "I am"?
It is behind all the thoughts. It is silent. It is the background. It is not "Jennie". It "watches".

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Canfora
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Re: Ready to look?

Postby Canfora » Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:35 pm

Hi Jennie,
This is getting challenging... that is good, though!
:) Thank you for your answers!
Because, I guess if you get right down to it, if I stopped thinking them, "I" would stop existing. These are all the opinions, beliefs, stories that make "me" me.
So true! What would exist without the stories, then? What can you see happening right now? Can you describe this moment, please?

Is what is going on ok without a story?
Sandra: So, what can you see right now in your experience that is this "I am"?
Jennie: It is behind all the thoughts. It is silent. It is the background. It is not "Jennie". It "watches".
Are you saying that what you are is the witness of what is going on? What can you find in your experience that is watching the experience? Could it be that there is only the experience of seeing without a doer? Have a look, can the "watcher" be found?

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jennie
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Re: Ready to look?

Postby jennie » Sat Jan 17, 2015 7:06 pm

Hi Sandra,
What would exist without the stories, then? What can you see happening right now? Can you describe this moment, please?
Without the stories, which only exist in abstraction (in thinking), what is happening right now is all the things I can sense... sounds, movements, light, sensations. There is no suffering. There is a deeper peace, a total okay-ness with life as it is. If I am not maintaining the story of me then it disappears instantly. It only exists in thought, and in thoughts that I believe to be true. Without the stories, in this moment there is peace, freedom, happiness, openness.
Is what is going on ok without a story?
Yes, totally! The story is irrelevant, and has no effect what-so-ever on what is going on. The story thinks it needs itself to "get what it wants," to change situations to its liking, etc. However, a story/thoughts have no power to do this, so this is where all the suffering comes in. Life does not need "the story of Jennie" to function.
Are you saying that what you are is the witness of what is going on? What can you find in your experience that is watching the experience? Could it be that there is only the experience of seeing without a doer? Have a look, can the "watcher" be found?
I'm not sure what I am. I can find nothing that is watching the experience. Just that the watching or awareness, itself, exists. I can find no "watcher". But I will keep looking as the day goes by!

Thanks for the questions!
Have a lovely day,
Jennie


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