Requesting guidance

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
User avatar
jonathon
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:51 pm

Requesting guidance

Postby jonathon » Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:31 am

Hello, my name is Jon, I would like to become enlightened. I'm 26, from New Zealand, like chocolate but can't have any now because I am tooo fat.

Right now I am stuck with the idea that the initiator of one's actions is the self. I've thought about it a bit and can't come up with a reason why it isn't so. Maybe the fact that it's MY willpower that means I cannot be it?

BUT surely there has to be a self, how else could anything be done? Something has to be in charge of the body, directing it?

User avatar
yuvi
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:52 pm
Location: India

Re: Requesting guidance

Postby yuvi » Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:13 am

Hi Jonathan... I can guide you towards realizing the nature of self.
if you are fine with me being your guide, please let me know and we shall begin.

Thanks :)
YOU CANNOT KNOW YOURSELF. YOU CAN ONLY BE YOURSELF.

User avatar
jonathon
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:51 pm

Re: Requesting guidance

Postby jonathon » Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:35 am

Hi Jonathan... I can guide you towards realizing the nature of self.
if you are fine with me being your guide, please let me know and we shall begin.

Thanks :)
Let's do this!

User avatar
yuvi
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:52 pm
Location: India

Re: Requesting guidance

Postby yuvi » Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:39 pm

great!

But before we proceed, there are few guidelines in this process.. please respond individually to confirm:

1. You agree to post at least once a day. If you are busy, let me know by replying 'busy' or how long you may go offline. I will do the same.
2. In general, the guide will ask the questions for you to respond to
3. Responses require your utmost honesty
4. Responses are best from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Longwinded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
5. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that. Please read the disclaimer here http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/
6. Please learn to use the quote function; instructions are located in the link below this line:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660”
7. Our discussion thread is/will be available in public domain, so avoid personal information or using name
8. Please click the 'subscribe topic' link at the very bottom of the page so you get an email whenever a reply comes in.
YOU CANNOT KNOW YOURSELF. YOU CAN ONLY BE YOURSELF.

User avatar
yuvi
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:52 pm
Location: India

Re: Requesting guidance

Postby yuvi » Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:41 pm

YOU CANNOT KNOW YOURSELF. YOU CAN ONLY BE YOURSELF.

User avatar
jonathon
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:51 pm

Re: Requesting guidance

Postby jonathon » Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:38 pm

great!

But before we proceed, there are few guidelines in this process.. please respond individually to confirm:

1. You agree to post at least once a day. If you are busy, let me know by replying 'busy' or how long you may go offline. I will do the same.
Okay
2. In general, the guide will ask the questions for you to respond to
Got it
3. Responses require your utmost honesty
That's definitely important
4. Responses are best from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Longwinded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
I'll do my best
5. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that. Please read the disclaimer here http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/
Okay
6. Please learn to use the quote function; instructions are located in the link below this line:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660”
It's simple enough
7. Our discussion thread is/will be available in public domain, so avoid personal information or using name
Okay
8. Please click the 'subscribe topic' link at the very bottom of the page so you get an email whenever a reply comes in.
Will do

User avatar
yuvi
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:52 pm
Location: India

Re: Requesting guidance

Postby yuvi » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:33 am

perfect..

I have some start up questions to you so I understand where you are and how we can proceed. But before answering my questions, i'd like you to examine the questions deeply. Take time. Compose yourself for 5-10 minutes and take 3 deep breaths - observe inhalation from the point where air enters your nose, feel it all the way in your airway until it expands your abdomen. Then observe exhalation in the same fashion. This helps your mind to calm down and gain focus. Inquiries from there will have clarity.

Here are the questions:
1. What are your expectations for liberation?
2. How will this feel?
3. What part of your current life do you expect to change after this?

There is no deadline or ‘number of dialogues per seeing’ in this process. For some it happens immediately, and for some it takes time. Frustration may come, and it is good. Don’t falter during the process and let’s work together however long it takes.
YOU CANNOT KNOW YOURSELF. YOU CAN ONLY BE YOURSELF.

User avatar
jonathon
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:51 pm

Re: Requesting guidance

Postby jonathon » Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:16 am

perfect..

I have some start up questions to you so I understand where you are and how we can proceed. But before answering my questions, i'd like you to examine the questions deeply. Take time. Compose yourself for 5-10 minutes and take 3 deep breaths - observe inhalation from the point where air enters your nose, feel it all the way in your airway until it expands your abdomen. Then observe exhalation in the same fashion. This helps your mind to calm down and gain focus. Inquiries from there will have clarity.

Here are the questions:
1. What are your expectations for liberation?
2. How will this feel?
3. What part of your current life do you expect to change after this?

There is no deadline or ‘number of dialogues per seeing’ in this process. For some it happens immediately, and for some it takes time. Frustration may come, and it is good. Don’t falter during the process and let’s work together however long it takes.
1. I will become someone who no longer suffers. My life will be peaceful, meaningful, fulfilling. It will be like no longer living in a personal hell. I expect that it will be something that I will have to apply to my mental life from the top down, riding the ox so to speak.
2. I will feel great, alive, at peace with the world and everything in it. Happy, deeply, strongly happy.
3. I have problems with social anxiety, so hopefully that will get sorted, better at socializing. More openness/warmth/confidence. Less daydreaming, more productivity. Better able to concentrate, since there won't be any me-related ruminating going on.

User avatar
yuvi
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:52 pm
Location: India

Re: Requesting guidance

Postby yuvi » Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:35 am

First the headsup: Seeing through self does not make one a peaceful, meaningful and fulfilling person that never suffers. Cutting through self illusion is only the beginning. After one realizes that experiences continue to happen without a center, he or she will eventually break the habitual patterns of suffering. This is the fact. This process takes time, sometimes even lifetime.

Awakening to reality is the beginning, enlightenment is a process.

I now know what your expectations are.
Now please contemplate this question: What are expectations, and how are they experienced?

We will stick to this question until you come with the right answer :)
YOU CANNOT KNOW YOURSELF. YOU CAN ONLY BE YOURSELF.

User avatar
jonathon
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:51 pm

Re: Requesting guidance

Postby jonathon » Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:07 am

Expectations are beliefs about how things will be.
They are experienced as mental images, feelings or internal dialogue and the judgement that this is how things will be.

User avatar
yuvi
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:52 pm
Location: India

Re: Requesting guidance

Postby yuvi » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:49 am

Right.. Expectations are images, voice or language that appears when you close your eyes (or with eyes closed). So, can we say that expectations are experienced as 'thoughts' arising in the present moment?

to note: Believing in thoughts is the greatest obstacle in realizing no self. To understand "what is," the first step is to see 'thoughts' as just thoughts - meaning, not getting lost in it or believing it contents (for the purpose of our objective to see through the self illusion).
YOU CANNOT KNOW YOURSELF. YOU CAN ONLY BE YOURSELF.

User avatar
jonathon
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:51 pm

Re: Requesting guidance

Postby jonathon » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:55 pm

Yes, expectation are thoughts that arise in the present moment. They are about how future events will turn out. They are just a thought. An idea.

An examples would be: Waking up in the morning and having the thought about how the work-day is going to turn out. It's like it's just the brains best guess.

So believing in thoughts is an obstacle because they aren't reality, only a idea about how reality is/was/will be.

User avatar
yuvi
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:52 pm
Location: India

Re: Requesting guidance

Postby yuvi » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:55 am

So believing in thoughts is an obstacle because they aren't reality, only a idea about how reality is/was/will be.
Only an 'idea about how reality' is also an idea. Thoughts does not know reality. But we will come back to that later.

It is important that we establish a base for introspection by uprooting the thoughts that are “believed” to bring some “imaginary state” in order to be happy NOW.

Please do this exercise: Site comfortably on a chair and close your eyes. Take few deep breaths (observing air entering at the level of nostrils to all the way to your abdomen). You will experience several thoughts that continue to arise and fade: can be about this present discussion, how you want to be happy in future, past painful memories, etc. When you get lost in thought, don't worry. Gently return to become a witness again. Do not try to suppress thoughts, change thoughts, like thoughts, criticize thoughts or push thoughts away. Don’t take any effort to do anything at all, and witness ‘thoughts and its contents’ for 10 minutes.

Now tell me: What is missing in the present moment that needs change?
I don't want to hear what your thoughts said, as it always wants a future state to achieve fulfillment in the present moment.

Hint: Imagine a TV screen. The screen does not take shape of the movie scenes played on itself. It remains unencumbered by whatever goes on. Movie scenes are transient occurrences that come and fade. Screen is the same, always.
YOU CANNOT KNOW YOURSELF. YOU CAN ONLY BE YOURSELF.

User avatar
jonathon
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:51 pm

Re: Requesting guidance

Postby jonathon » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:40 am

It is important that we establish a base for introspection by uprooting the thoughts that are “believed” to bring some “imaginary state” in order to be happy NOW.
So getting rid of thoughts that I think will make me feel happy, but actually the thoughts don't?
Now tell me: What is missing in the present moment that needs change?
I don't want to hear what your thoughts said, as it always wants a future state to achieve fulfillment in the present moment.
Do you mean: What is missing in the present moment that needs to change in order for me to feel happy?

User avatar
yuvi
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:52 pm
Location: India

Re: Requesting guidance

Postby yuvi » Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:52 am

Do you mean: What is missing in the present moment that needs to change in order for me to feel happy?
Yes. But remember the instructions and hint i gave in previous post.

So getting rid of thoughts that I think will make me feel happy, but actually the thoughts don't?
Look for answers to these questions as well:
Can you get rid of thoughts?
Can you start/stop thoughts?
Can you interrupt/resume thoughts in the middle?
Can you decide what thoughts to come and go?
Do you have any authorship or control over thoughts?
YOU CANNOT KNOW YOURSELF. YOU CAN ONLY BE YOURSELF.


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 3 guests