I would like to get in touch with a guide

[sosho]

Hello!
I would like to get in touch with a guide.
I've been doing vipassana meditaiton on and off for about 5 years. I have since six months ago done self inquires. I would like to take the next step in my development. I am very grateful if you can help me. I have had one breakthrough during a self inquiry work shop. Then I could not stop laughing because I saw how everything is done without me being in control. Everything is just happening. I realized that I am not in charge.

I think I find it easy to find the "silence" within me in meditation.

Lots of love!

/Sosho

[JimmyG]

Hello Sosho

Welcome to LU, great to find you here.

My name is Rolly (male), and I would be happy to guide you here.

There are a few formalities that I would like to go through first to make sure that we are in agreement prior to getting started.

If you have not yet, please read the disclaimer at the LU website: http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

Once you have read that, please confirm.

Next, here are a few guidelines that I would like you to read before we begin.

1. You agree to post at least once a day. And if you cannot for some reason, then please let me know. I commit to the same.
2. In general, I will ask the questions for you to respond to. If you have questions, then that is fine. However, generally, I will not answer questions. Rather, I will guide an exploration of the assumptions that underlie the questions.
3. Responses require your utmost honesty. It is important that you really explore your own experience directly and answer completely honestly. There is no right answer. There is only a truthful exploration. That is what we want.
4. Responses are best from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
5. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation. Approach this with openness and curiosity, simply to see what is as it is.

Please confirm that you have read and agree to these guidelines.

Once you have confirmed the above then I look forward to exploring together.

Sincerely,
Rolly

[sosho]

Hi Jimmy!
Thanks for the reply. I have read your answer. I confirm that I have read and agree to these guidelines.
Lets get started.

Sincerely
Sosho

[JimmyG]

Hi Sosho

Let’s go right into the questions.

What did vipassana meditation and self inquiry make you see, what changed for you and how did it make you feel?

I realized that I am not in charge.

Did a ‘you’ realize that you are not in charge or is it just happening?

I think I find it easy to find the "silence" within me in meditation.

Please look again.
Is there a silence within and a silence without?
Who or what is this ‘me’? There’s no you – what comes up?
Is silence only to be found in meditation?

Please sit with each question while you look closely.
Do not reply too quickly and consider every one of these questions.

BTW You might also consider to use the quote function, see viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660 for instructions which is quite helpful.

Love to read from you
Rolly

[sosho]

What did vipassana meditation and self inquiry make you see, what changed for you and how did it make you feel?

I have slowly understood that the self does not exist. I do not take things as personal anymore. If I miss the bus for example it doesn’t pop up any frustration. Everything has become easier when things are not under my control, it is just happening. Suddenly, the "I" is on the job, an hour later, “I” am sitting on the bus..etc. It's like it just happens. Everything is unfolding.

Found that the silence / the present moment is always there. It's so easy to log in now. By simply being now, and just be aware, not aware of anything specific but just aware of awareness.

I have also learned that the present moment is always there, waiting to be discovered, and how easy it is to “log into” the now.

Is there a silence within and a silence without?

The silence is always there, regardless of what happens. It is like the analogy "the sun always shines even when it's cloudy." I have a little difficult to locate the silence. Silence is everywhere, everywhere there are experiences there is also silence.

Who or what is this ‘me’? There’s no you – what comes up?

something very soft, vivid, quiet yet in gentle motion, welcoming, it is letting in everything and it refuses nothing, no thought, feeling or sensation. It only "IS". completely independent of anything else.

Is silence only to be found in meditation?

Meditation has made me realize that "silence" is always there no matter what happens. In the middle of a fear, you can just relax and accept what is in the present moment and then find the silence comes.

[JimmyG]

Hi Sosho

Thanks for your replying. Today I have an exercise for you.

Find a quite place indoors or outside in nature to sit down. A notebook would be great. Step out of the mind stream and relax, watch your breathing. Now notice all that is seen, heard, touched, smelled and tasted. Write it all down without discrimination, just the way it happens. Do this for ten minutes, write it down. If a thought pops up, write it down but frame it with ‘the thought that ….’, just notice it and let it pass right through you, don’t cling to anything, let it flow just like passing clouds.

Let me know what you have found?

I have a little difficult to locate the silence.

Who or what is this ‘I’ trying to locate the silence? Is silence to be found by anything or is just there, irrespective of anything?

Rolly: Who or what is this ‘me’? There’s no you – what comes up?
Sosho: something very soft, vivid, quiet yet in gentle motion, welcoming, it is letting in everything and it refuses nothing, no thought, feeling or sensation. It only "IS". completely independent of anything else.

By ‘It only IS. completely independent of anything else” do you mean this ‘me’ only IS, completely independent. What is this ‘me’ if there’s no you?

you can just relax and accept what is in the present moment and then find the silence comes.

Can a ‘you’ do anything at all? Can a 'you' find silence that comes from somewhere? Present moment and silence, can there be differentiation at all?

Please sit with the questions, take your time.

Love to read from you
Rolly

[sosho]

This is what appeared in my 10 minutes of meditation:
-felt the breath of the nose
-Felt that your stomach moves when air enters the body
-feel the breath through the body
-thinking that it is nice
-thinking that I should exercise
-Thinking of an important meeting at work
-hear sounds utifrån- cars
-feel my tongue on my teeth
-thinking of going underground
-Thinking that it is important to relax the life
-thinking that my patients need to relax more
-Thinking that I should eat healthier
-Thinking that I love myself
-Thinking that I should focus on my heart space
-Think of my Vipassana teachers

I am very grateful for your questions. But I'm not sure if the questions are at the right level for me. They are perhaps just a little too hard, I'm pretty confused, but maybe it's a good thing :) Maybe it would be better if we focus on one or two at a time? or what do you think?


I wrote earlier

Sosho: something very soft, vivid, quiet yet in gentle motion, welcoming, it is letting in everything and it refuses nothing, no thought, feeling or sensation. It only "IS". completely independent of anything else.

this was a realization that appeared in a 3 day self enquiery retreat that I attended to immediately after a 10-day Vipassana retreat. I do not know if I exaggerated when I wrote that this pops up. This realization has come once very clearly. Feels like it is in the background all the time. I have seen it but I have not become it yet.

Who or what is this ‘I’ trying to locate the silence? Is silence to be found by anything or is just there, irrespective of anything?

"I" can not find anyone trying to locate the silence. There is only an awareness of, a Trying to locate the silence.

Can a ‘you’ do anything at all? Can a 'you' find silence that comes from somewhere? Present moment and silence, can there be differentiation at all?

There is no "you" in me. Feels like no one can do anthing at all. There is only stuff happening. Present Moment and silence is the something.

I was wondering about something. I sit about 40 minutes to 1 hour in silence when I try to answer the questions. Is it okay or should I sit with the questions a little longer?

Thank you for your effort. Lots of love

[JimmyG]

Hello Sosho

I'm pretty confused, but maybe it's a good thing :) Maybe it would be better if we focus on one or two at a time? or what do you think?

Thanks for your honest looking. Actually confusion is a good place to start this exploration of no self. But let’s keep it simple then – 3 topics, ok?:

-hear sounds utifrån- cars

1) In direct experience how do you know the sounds are of cars? Can you hear the car sounds out there, somewhere. Where does the hearing happen?

-thinking that it is nice
-thinking that I should exercise
-Thinking of an important meeting at work

2) Can you choose or control thoughts?

-feel my tongue on my teet

3) It is the same with body parts. Do you feel your tongue on your teeth? Close your eyes and see if there’s a gap between you and tongue and teeth. Can you draw a line between?

I was wondering about something. I sit about 40 minutes to 1 hour in silence when I try to answer the questions. Is it okay or should I sit with the questions a little longer?

Whatever feels right for you. You can’t screw it up. There’s only what is and that’s what we are looking for. I am curious to read your next post.

Till next time
Rolly

[sosho]

1) In direct experience how do you know the sounds are of cars? Can you hear the car sounds out there, somewhere. Where does the hearing happen?

Feels like the sound starts from the car outside, but I can not find the place were the hearing happens. I do not know where the hearing happens. There is only a sound popping up.

2) Can you choose or control thoughts?

No I can not choose my thoughts or control them. They only pops up without anyone being in control.

3) Do you feel your tongue on your teeth? Close your eyes and see if there’s a gap between you and tongue and teeth. Can you draw a line between?

Feels like there is no gap, its like there is only the sensation of tongue and teeth. But at the sometime it feels like there is awareness of that sensation. I don't know if the awareness of the sensation is different from the sensation itself.



Thank you

[JimmyG]

Thanks Sosho - I will come back to you tomorrow.

Have a nice weekend
Rolly

[sosho]

thank you

[JimmyG]

Hey Sosho

There are some very profound insights of yours:

There is only a sound popping up.

They (thoughts) only pops up without anyone being in control.

Isn’t it amazing that in direct looking sound and thoughts are just popping up, just happening with no one in control!

I don't know if the awareness of the sensation is different from the sensation itself.

Consider this - is there an awareness of sensation separate from sensation itself? Or is sensation like sound and thoughts just occurring? Don’t think, just look.

Earlier you said:

Feels like it is in the background all the time. I have seen it but I have not become it yet.

In direct experience, is there a difference between foreground and background? Is there a perceiver of background? If yes, who or what is that which perceives? Does an ‘I’ perceive or become anything?

Remember your earlier statement:

There is no "you" in me. Feels like no one can do anthing at all. There is only stuff happening.

Hence there is not even witnessing, right? Witnessing, focusing, intending, inspiring, observing and watching are all processes that have subject then, no doer. Agree?


You are doing very good, keep sitting with these questions in your own pace. I'm curious what comes up.
Rolly

[sosho]

I answer this tomorrow. Thanks for Everything.

[sosho]

Consider this - is there an awareness of sensation separate from sensation itself? Or is sensation like sound and thoughts just occurring?

Yes, I think the sensation is just popping up like the thoughts and sounds.
No there is no awareness of sensations separate from sensation itself, but how about the other way around.
Can you say that the sensation is “just popping up” and that the sensation didn’t exist before awareness was aware of it? In other words, there is only the things that awareness is aware of?

For example suddenly awareness is aware of the sensations of fingers on the keyboard. Can you say that there were no sensations of fingers on the keyboard before awareness became aware of them?

No separation between awareness of sensation, thought, feelings and the sensations, thought, feelings itself?

In direct experience, is there a difference between foreground and background? Is there a perceiver of background? If yes, who or what is that which perceives? Does an ‘I’ perceive or become anything?

No there is no diffirence between foreground and background. There is no preciever of background,

Hence there is not even witnessing, right? Witnessing, focusing, intending, inspiring, observing and watching are all processes that have subject then, no doer. Agree?

There is no witness, no observer there is only stuff popping up and then disappearing? Is awareness of “stuff happening” (sensations, thoughts etc) and the “stuff happening” itself the same?
Thank you

[JimmyG]

Hi Sosho

Thanks for your insightful replying. Due to your multiple questions this post has somewhat more content:

Can you say that the sensation is “just popping up” and that the sensation didn’t exist before awareness was aware of it?

Is there any past or future! If not, how could anything exist before what just is, the ‘just popping up’? Can anything be separated?

In other words, there is only the things that awareness is aware of?

In our ordinary, accustomed way we tend to believe, that there must be an object and a subject.
Isn’t it freeing to see, how things just happen? Look and see if there’s a reason for things to be popping up? Or does it just happen for no reason with life simply going on?

No separation between awareness of sensation, thought, feelings and the sensations, thought, feelings itself?

BTW That’s fabulous questioning of yours! Test it by yourself, go by your direct experience. Look at seeing, hearing, touching, smelling, tasting and thinking – can you draw a line whatsoever? Can it be that the body is just another thought label for sensations?

No there is no difference between foreground and background. There is no preciever of background,

nor is there a perceiver of foreground, right? We are prompted to name all these things and put labels on everything.

There is a Zen saying:
Birds have no desire to be reflected in the lake, the lake has no desire to reflect the birds, but it still happens. The birds are reflected, the lake reflects, although the desire exists neither on the part of the birds nor on the part of the lake.

There is no witness, no observer there is only stuff popping up and then disappearing?

Yes, every form of identification is assumed, mostly due to language. Check this out, is it possible that it all happens without an ‘I’ attached?

Is awareness of “stuff happening” (sensations, thoughts etc) and the “stuff happening” itself the same?

Again, great question, Sosho! What is there in direct experience? Is there any sort of differentiation or is there only one happening whatsoever?

Take your time in your own pace even if it’s more than one day, just give me a daily note.

I love to read form you
Rolly