oh say can I see?

[sue t]

n the past 3 days I read Gateless Gatecrashers twice and the E. Quotes, feeling both anticipation and frustration, reading over and over trying to see, asking the questions,doing the exercises etc. Then yesterday in the VA hospital waiting room, something clicked. 'What is' became awesome, and I could see that the personal self is nothing but fake. I would be grateful for some further guidance! Thank you thank you for these wonderful resources!!!!! btw, I am in the USA central time.

[codyjdennis]

Hey Sue,

Thank you for your introduction! Great to have you here at LU.

My name is Cody and I'd be more than happy to guide you.

Just a few technical things to get out of the way..

1. Post at least once a day, if you cannot post, or need more time, let me know.
2. Be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.
3. Answer from personal experience only.
4. Read the disclaimer on the Liberation Unleashed main page - http://www.liberationunleashed.com/
5. Read the FAQ page to get an idea of what we do here - http://www.liberationunleashed.com/LU_FAQ.html
6. Learn how to use the quote function when responded to messages - viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660
---------------

If you agree to the above we can get started as soon as possible.

Best
Cody

[sue t]

Yes I can do all that. Thank you!
Sue

[codyjdennis]

You're welcome! :)

Let's get started
----
It looks as if you have seen through the illusion of the separate self.

However, I will ask anyway. Do you have any lingering expectations around seeing through the illusion of me? List anything that comes up for you.

-Cody

[sue t]

Do you have any lingering expectations around seeing through the illusion of me?

. Well there is No more longing or reaching to know or do this. It seemed like upon reading that question, a thought of yes, there was an expectation of ? then it was forgotten too quickly to write it down. But questions definitely came up yesterday: Who has these questions, anyway? The voice in the head is still talking. I see the self is a fabrication, But Why is "I" still front and center in thoughts and conversations? Who was it that wanted to buy something and experienced such delight in doing so? There is living a life here in a quiet and fairly isolated locale, with few distractions and no significant worries, so this equanimity hasn’t really been challenged. There are still thoughts or feelings that come up that feel uncomfortable—little what ifs that the self used to fret about. Then they dissolve.

[codyjdennis]

Well there is No more longing or reaching to know or do this.

Great! :-)

But Why is "I" still front and center in thoughts and conversations?

The "I" will not vanish because this has been seen.

Especially in regard to relating to 'others'. For example, just in how you and I are talking right now the 'I' is useful. It's just seen to be ultimately imaginary. When the I is seen through the 'I' thought is more like a useful tool than a truth. That in itself is a radical change in perspective.

There are still thoughts or feelings that come up that feel uncomfortable—little what ifs that the self used to fret about.

These will continue to arise after this seeing for the most part. However, they will likely slowly start to fall off because the basis of their existence, the "I', is seen to be imaginary. It doesn't have as much stickiness as before.

----
I'm going to run through some basic questions we ask to look at just to cover the bases.
We'll just start with this one.

Can an "I', a thought...
See?
Hear?
Taste?
Touch?
Feel?

or

is there just the seeing, the hearing, the feeling, the touching etc?

[sue t]

Can an "I', a thought...
See?
Hear?
Taste?
Touch?
Feel?

or

is there just the seeing, the hearing, the feeling, the touching etc?

No, the I is nothing more than a thought. It cannot do any of that. Everything is just happening,
This I has lots of stories. All day long. All just thoughts......

[codyjdennis]

I apologize for the delayed responses. I just got finished with my classes and will now be a lot more available going forward.

No, the I is nothing more than a thought. It cannot do any of that. Everything is just happening,

Great!

Here's a few more..

Where are thoughts, can you find them?
Are thoughts thinking?
Are thoughts making a you?
What can thoughts do?


---

[sue t]

Where are thoughts, can you find them?

thoughts seem to be generated within or close to the body. and they seem to move, usually upward, at different rates, and sometimes in different directions, like energy, and usually dissolve as others take their place...some get stuck for a while.
Find them? They are pretty much unavoidable. I (?) can stop words for a bit, but thoughts are always there.

Are thoughts thinking?

Thoughts don't think, this seems sure.

Are thoughts making a you?

are they making the fabricated self that can seem real? please talk about that

What can thoughts do?

It seems to make sense that no they can't 'do '. But there is a struggle on this one. There are choices made. People's lives can be full of unwise choices and they realize they don't want to go there anymore and they change direction. How does this happen. What brought all of us here to this forum> Will you write about this, because I come from decades of believing in the 'change your thoughts, change your life' philosophy.
thank you thank you

[sue t]

Later it dawned on me that your questions about thoughts are to help us unravel what we assume is a puzzle, but when it's unraveled, there is nothing there at the center. My questions don't need to be answered. It has been unraveled.
Thank you to you and all the guides !

[codyjdennis]

Later it dawned on me that your questions about thoughts are to help us unravel what we assume is a puzzle, but when it's unraveled, there is nothing there at the center. My questions don't need to be answered. It has been unraveled.
Thank you to you and all the guides !

Awesome Sue!

Just to be thorough I'll answer your previous questions though

There are choices made. People's lives can be full of unwise choices and they realize they don't want to go there anymore and they change direction.

It is really as simple as this...

Just because there are apparent choices does not mean there is a chooser entity. As you have clearly seen there is no center. Choice happens, Seeing happens etc to "no one" so to speak.

Look into this in your direct experience..

Can choice be found other than a thought?

'change your thoughts, change your life' philosophy.

Ahh :), I was one of those as well. Check it out from this perspective.

Can 'you' control your thoughts?
Or do they just seem to arise?

Best,
Cody :)

[sue t]

Hello, there are internet problems today. I'll check back in tomorrow and meanwhile contemplate this assignment....

[sue t]

Can choice be found other than a thought?

All the observed choices were thoughts, nothing more, some not even that, more like automatic reflexes.

Can 'you' control your thoughts?
Or do they just seem to arise?

Thoughts are arising like fireflies in the summer nights. the idea that they can or need to be controlled must be just another thought.
There are thoughts that are the voice in the head. There are wordless thoughts too. It's all a mystery.
An ad popped up on the screen . Kind of like thoughts pop up! Part of this ad was a big red square with the words NOT ME....
btw, if there is a day (s) without a post, it will be internet connection related. It comes and goes, like thoughts. I won't leave the forum with no explanation .

[codyjdennis]

Thoughts are arising like fireflies in the summer nights. the idea that they can or need to be controlled must be just another thought

Yes! It definitely is.

If we could control wouldn't we only have positive thoughts?

and just side note on your insight "controlled must be another thought"...

Even if the thought arises "I am in control" can the thought itself actually be control?

if there is a day (s) without a post, it will be internet connection related. It comes and goes, like thoughts. I won't leave the forum with no explanation .

Thanks for letting me know!

[sue t]

if the thought arises "I am in control" can the thought itself actually be control?

No of course not, that's a good way of pointing that out.
This exercise of observing thoughts has been really helpful, amazing actually. Old patterns are falling away, so many things that bothered the old me are non issues now.
Well. those are today's thoughts.