Looking for a guide to see it

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lorepep
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Looking for a guide to see it

Postby lorepep » Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:31 am

Hi I am Lorenzo.
I am 27 and I am from Italy, as you can imagine from my name.

I have always been in self-help, self-improvement and in some way in spirituality...but always with an underlying feelings that no matter what I did (NLP, EFT, metidation, ...) actually nothing seems the solution, but rather a patch in the best-case scenario.

Everything went like this until one year ago I realized that every single belief I had about me was like an old habit, something unquestioned that I was carrying on just because I was used to do it.
Than I read Tolle and Jed McKenna's books and the inquiry started. I started to dissect every single thought and belief to see that it was not true.
I've had lots of a-ah moments, life didn't seem a matter of life and death anymore, but I had always the "I get it, I lost it" sensation...the sensation that a further step was always needed.

Than few days ago I found this site and while waiting for the writing permission I tried to go through the process by myself while reading the gateless crasher book.
I read this topic http://markedeternal.blogspot.it/p/start-here.html and I tried.

At a point it hit me...the being, that we can feel, is what is behind everything, behind every single organism.
It is the place from which thinking, moving, speaking, writing, seeing, whatever ends with "ing" comes from.
Everyone body/mind organism is carrying on his own ever changing unique character, animated and created in every moment by the being.

Now I can feel it, I can see it, but I am experiencing some friction inside and sometimes I have the doubt I am at least in part intellectualizing it.
Thus, I would like someone to be my guide to end the search one and for all, or to see that is already ended.

If you ask me why I am doing this it is because I cannot not doing it and because I want to help the others to awake themelves...by the way I would love to become a guide myself.

Thank you

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Angelika
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Re: Looking for a guide to see it

Postby Angelika » Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:19 am

Hello Lorenzo, welcome!

Thank you for registering here on Liberation Unleashed. :)

Is it alright for you if I address you by your name or do you prefer to be called lorepep?

My name is Angelika and I offer to be your guide. :)

Did you read the disclaimer?

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Please comfirm.

Thank you very much,

Angelika

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lorepep
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Re: Looking for a guide to see it

Postby lorepep » Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:24 am

Hello Angelika,
I would love you to be my guide, thank you for the offering.
Yes I confirm, and of course you can call me Lorenzo.

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Angelika
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Re: Looking for a guide to see it

Postby Angelika » Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:34 am

Good! Thank you!

Here are the general rules we shall go by:
  • 1. Post at least once a day, if you cannot post, or need more time, let me know.

    2. Be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

    3. Answer only from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Longwinded
    analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.

    4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation.

    Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and
    essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.

    5. Understand that I will be guiding you, rather than teaching you, and the more you put into this process the more you will get out of it.

I saw you already know how to use the quote function :)

Also,

- You can reply to this thread by pushing the purple-orange coloured button 'Post Reply" at the left bottom of this page.

- Please click the 'subscribe topic' link at the very bottom of the page to ensure you get an email whenever a reply comes in.

  • Here is the first set of questions:

    What are your expectations for seeing through the illusion of the self?

    How will Life change?

    How will you change?

    What will be different?
Please answer these questions in great detail. No expectation is too small to ignore.

Thanks, Lorenzo!

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lorepep
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Re: Looking for a guide to see it

Postby lorepep » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:04 am

What are your expectations for seeing through the illusion of the self?
Not fixating on thoughts and emotions anymore.
By this I mean automatically see every thought for what it is: just a thought arising because of some conditioning.
How will Life change?
I imagine a more minimal life, where only what must be done will be done, where all the unnecessary has been stripped away.
No more doubts, just doing in the flow.
No more suffering, just a complete acceptance of what is and the sense of happyness I am experiencing now but without
this subtle doubt, that it is not over yet.
How will you change?
I imagine a sense of release and surrender, like almost dieing.
Especially I feel a sort of grasping in my abdomen and I always imagine this grasping to be released after awakening.
Moreover I imagine not to having fear of death anymore (I already haven't it to some degree).
I also imagine to actually see in real time that everything is run by the same life force, which I suppose to be the oneness people talk about.
There is also a thought about being a zombie-like creature that just do things in reaction...like a dog.
Something like thought arise -> action -> thought -> emotion -> thought -> action.
I can see that we actually work like that, but it is difficult to accept it completely.
So I have the sensation that my personality could change, that I could stop liking things that I currently like
or love people that I currently love.
What will be different?
I will not search anymore.
There will be the unshakable certainty to be done.
I will spend my time deepening the understanding, playing videogames, enjoying and accepting in whatever way life will develop, and I would love to write
about truth.

As a side note, while I was writing these things I've had a sensation, a sort of doubt like
"Am I writing this because I am running the character I am used to run?"
Like having the doubt I believe in this thing anymore, which are honestly what I think.

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Angelika
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Re: Looking for a guide to see it

Postby Angelika » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:42 am

Thank you, Lorenzo!

We will leave your answers for now and start with looking directly at what is. :)

  • There is no "I", no "self" to be found. Nowhere. There never was an "I", a "self."
Please sit with this sentence throughout the day, again and again, and look at what arises. Write down every single thought, feeling, emotion, sensation, you notice, as well as anything else that might arise.

This is an investigation. Look directly, describe as clearly as you can!

:)

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lorepep
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Re: Looking for a guide to see it

Postby lorepep » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:00 pm

I feel like a little of relaxation and void, similar to a dropping sensation.
There is also a subtle sense of anxyety.
I can feel also some sort of friction sensation inside the head.

If I stay more with the sentence, there is this sensation of feeling the void. Than thoughts arise about the fact that I can already feel the void, but that maybe all the forward steps have been actually useless, I mean during all this journey of inquiry.

There is the sensation very subtle as before that I am just running a character and that all of this is already done, like there is something
that don't want to admit that it is already over, since it is attached and used to run this truth-seeking.

After a while a sensation arises, it is like knowing that it is true, but I feel that between knowing it and accepting completely it there is an undestroyable wall.
Some thoughts arise about not being able to end this search, followed by other thoughts about that I have to do it.
Then thoughts about the fact that all the previous are only thoughts, maybe due to my personality, that don't have absolute truth. I can feel also some contraction in the abdomen.

As the sentence goes deeper I start experiencing a little bit of shaking sensation in the body.
While I focus on the sentence I see that the body moves, thoughts arise and consequent actions are taken, everything goes by itself.
But is also seems that no matter how much truth I see in the sentence, there is always a wall between me and accepting it fully.

There is the sensation that the non existance of self/I is something crazy, no matter how much proof I gather about it.
There is also the sensation that this "I" hide and seek game is run just by habit now, and that there is no sense at all in doing it.
I have the sensation that it is everything fake, this search...it is like a make-believe game, and there is no point maybe in doing it.
I feel like exhausted of seeking the truth.
When I see this, there is a little release sensation, like realizing it is a game.

If I look at the implications of the sentence you wrote, I start to think that something else must run everything.
Thoughts arise about all this being an impossible riddle.
I start to think about the seeker/finder paradox and that seeking is just another way not to arrive to the truth. You identify with the seeker
so your "moral side", the one that wants to see you striving for truth is ok, while actually you are not making any actual step towards truth.

I start to perceive the I as some sort of shadow, some sort of concept overimposed on reality, which I cannot get rid of. I can define it as being a sticky shadow.
The same stands for the me concept, but it has also a physical sensation associated, like a pressure at the hearth/stomach level. Also the concept seems to be
more associated with the body.
I can see that the body is real "I" and "me" are concepts, but very sticky.

Sorry everything seems messy, since I try to write expereiences as soon as they arise, just tell me if I have to put everything in a more formal format.

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Angelika
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Re: Looking for a guide to see it

Postby Angelika » Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:56 am

Good Morning, Lorenzo!

Very well done. :)

Indeed!

Was there one experience that was much stronger felt - that appeared to be much more prominent - than the other ones?

If you cannot tell right now, please read through your notes again and choose one.

If done so, please copy and paste it into your reply.

Thank you very much :)

Angelika

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lorepep
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Re: Looking for a guide to see it

Postby lorepep » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:50 am

Was there one experience that was much stronger felt - that appeared to be much more prominent - than the other ones?
Maybe the strongest sensation is that I can see that everything goes by itself but I cannot fully accept this fact.
Like the mind thinks that it is impossible that everything runs without a self, even all it can be seen from everyday life.
I have the sensation that if I the self does not exist, so who am I? If I am not the one who thinks, the one who moves, or watch, then what does remain? I feel that it is like detaching from myself, from the body and the mind.
While thinking all this there is like an opening sensation, like widening of awareness.

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Angelika
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Re: Looking for a guide to see it

Postby Angelika » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:44 am

.... if I the self does not exist, so who am I?
Please sit with this question throughout the day, return to it as often as possible.
  • Sit with it, as alert as it gets, and look directly at what is appearing.
  • Notice, observe, and write down - like in a report - everything that arises, while sitting with this question.

    Each thought, every habit pattern, every feeling, each emotion, every physical sensation, plus anything else that is showing up.
This is an inquiry.

:)

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Angelika
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Re: Looking for a guide to see it

Postby Angelika » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:46 am

PS: informal format is absolutly ok.

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lorepep
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Re: Looking for a guide to see it

Postby lorepep » Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:35 pm

Hi Angelika.

This is the report of the last 7-8 hours...It is again messy, but you know I am italian and mess is our bread and butter :)
The report is in chronological order.

A sensation I am everything starts to arise, very subtle
There is the sensation that all this is useless and it is just a crazy game, that cannot go deeper.

Again friction in the head if I think that I am not the thinker
I am inquiring, if I am not the one who thinks nor the one who moves...than who I am?
It is strange because it feels like you have to think in an complete different paradigm.

Suddenly a kind of little shift has happened and it is like a void sensation has attracted my focus. There is a sublte joy feeling and the feeling of not being focused anymore, I mean with awareness not directed toward anything partcular.
But also still friction in the head.

I see that there is a part of me that doesn't want to do this, and I see why it is so diffult...I mean it is the self that wants to kill the self so a part will alway be against what you are doing.

At a certain point the sensation of being trapped in a dream arises. Something similar to knowing that no matter what will happen, which shift will happen, I will be always here, stuck here.

This thought arises: "if all this show is run by itself, so who am I? What does remain? What is beyond?"

There is the grip in the abdomen sensation and headache, maybe for the effort of the focus.
Also this inquiry shuould be run by itself, so what is beyond also that, is there something ever present?
Maybe the problem is that I am looking for something beyond, but I feel like I have to remove a sticky dress.

Suddenly there has been a shift again, like there is no me, no dream sensation anymore.
I mean that the sense of me and I are a little faded.

Calmness, but still the grip in the abdomen, but together with something like a subtle opioid release in the body.
But if I had to answer to who I am I couldn't find an answer.

The calmness still persist, together with the will of crying but without sadness or bad feelings.
I was expecting something like a sort of disembodiment from body/thoughts/emotions but it is not the case now.
It is strange everything is so different but so the same at the same time.
If I continue to inquire the sensation deepens it is like being in open space.

Sense of lightness and of things going by themselves but not continously.
At a certain point while cooking I bserved my hand moving by itself and it was strange.

Sensation of pressure between the eyes, but it is not disturbing I can just say with it.
I have also he sensation that I havo to go deeper, so I keep on inquiring in the same way.

It is again like pushing againsta a wall, I have the impulse to slap myself in the face to push through it :)
I think that I don't want to stop until I am completely done with this, I won't accept anything except being done.

There has been another dropping sensation in the abdomen while inquiring.

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Angelika
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Re: Looking for a guide to see it

Postby Angelika » Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:14 am

Good Morning, Lorenzo :)

Thank you for this once more very fine report and the precise description of all that was noticed.
  • That, what noticed and experienced every singly arising, where can this be found, and what is it like?

    Please sit with this investigation and take this day to look, and look again. :)

    Please write down whatever is experienced.
Thank you very much!

:)

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lorepep
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Re: Looking for a guide to see it

Postby lorepep » Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:57 pm

The person that must be thanked is you...the caring and sharing of this place is amazing :)

Ok so
That, what noticed and experienced every singly arising, where can this be found, and what is it like?
It seems to be found behind everything, like in the very inner part of my being.

I start inquiring who is seeing and experiencing all of this
Suddenly a drop in the abdomen, still the grip with a trembling sensation.

Lots of thoughts like "this is useless, it cannot go deeper" but I say to myself "they are just thoughts...who is observing them?"
Weeping sensation but no sadness.

I see that every thought every emotion are just what they are and they depend upon a character without inherent truth...so who is experiencing them?

Growing tension in the abdomen, I start worrying about what is going to happen with the release will happen...I mean I don't know why I am so tense, and the impact on the body of an eventual sudden surrender.

I've felt for a split second a great stillness behind everything
Lots of thoughts like "this is useless I am not gonna make it" with sadness but I am treating everything as something not true just inherent to a personality
The sensation is of disappearing more and more and just the single things remain...I mean sensations, thoughts, feelings...especially feelings and thoughts seem more and more of someone else

Again the stillness for a second, the resistance sees to have moved hugher, frim near the navel to the stomach/hearth area.

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Angelika
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Re: Looking for a guide to see it

Postby Angelika » Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:07 am

Hello Lorenzo! :)

Thank you for your kindness. :)
Growing tension in the abdomen, I start worrying about what is going to happen with the release will happen...I mean I don't know why I am so tense, and the impact on the body of an eventual sudden surrender.
Very fine observation!

Here is today´s inquiry:
  • Investigation on the nature of psysical sensations.

    Just sit, breathe, and notice the next pysical sensation that arises.

    1) Sit with this sensation, observe it, focus your attention on this sensation.
    2) Just look directly at what is happening and write it down. Please keep it simple. :)

    3) What does the physcal sensation feel like? (please choose a single word for it, like tension, tingling, pressure, heat, contraction, agitation, and so on)
    4) Does it get stronger, while the attention is focused on it?
    5) Does it get weaker?
    6) Does it disappear?
    7) Does it seem to appear somewhere else in the body?
    8) After the sensations disappeard, what is left?

    Please repeat steps 1-8 as often as it works.
Thank you very much!


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