Painting paints, but inspiration has dried up!

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
User avatar
samirah
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:11 pm

Painting paints, but inspiration has dried up!

Postby samirah » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:02 am

Hello this website seems to have found me by twists and turns.
When i create/paint its like the work does itself, there is hardly any realization of how it does this............but recently finding this knowledge that there is no Me, My (haha) Inspiration has dried up, there is a Blahness to the creative drive and I wonder can anyone help to shine a light on this dilemma..........I suppose I have attached a big fat ME to My Work and now there is no I.......oh dear !! Thank you in advance Kathryn

User avatar
JonathanR
Posts: 3978
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: Painting paints, but inspiration has dried up!

Postby JonathanR » Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:26 pm

Hello Kathryn,

My name is Jonathan, welcome to Liberation Unleashed.

What we do here at Liberation Unleashed is guide towards the realisation that there is no 'self'. Is this what you are asking for? It sounds from what you say that you may well have 'seen' no self already?
but recently finding this knowledge that there is no Me, My (haha) Inspiration has dried up
This is interesting. Perhaps we can talk a little about this?

When you say
but recently finding this knowledge that there is no Me
This does suggest that you see that there is no 'self', that 'self' is an illusion? is this correct?

Tell me little more about the circumstances of your finding of 'knowledge that there is no Me'. How did this happen? How did it change things? How did it cause inspiration to dry up? Also, what might you hope to achieve or expect by coming to LU?


Best wishes,

Jonathan

User avatar
samirah
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:11 pm

Re: Painting paints, but inspiration has dried up!

Postby samirah » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:50 pm

Hello Jonathan,

Thank you very much for replying. Just to let you know time-wise in relation to wherever you are I am in New Zealand.

Seeing Self as an Illusion..........yes when painting there is the experience that there is no Self doing the painting, that the painting paints itself, because when there is a stopping of painting and there is looking...........what comes to mind is "who did that? and How did that arise?"

How did this happen?...............I did not realize that there was No Self as you say, till recently through gradually drawing nearer to sources that suggest that this is so........and eventually just this past week I stumbled on a YouTube of Jackson Peterson teaching Dzogchen, and in one of the parts he mentioned Liberation Unleashed. So of course I downloaded the APP and read Gateless Gatecrashing and applied some of the exercises and found that when I listened to the ocean waves, there was only listening.....when looking at the ocean there was only looking.....when I felt the breeze on my face there was only sensation.......sitting on the rocks there was only sitting........and after some time of this I walked up the hill and it was like I "dissociated" a bit and there was only walking, but that all the colors were somehow brighter, that the walk i have done many times seemed more luminous.........it only lasted for about 20 mins and after that it diminished somewhat!

How did it change things?

As I wrote above it changed in those brief moments a few perceptual things for a short time.

Further than that it has been a few days since then and in its receding there are questions and a slight feeling of "what now"? "what next?".......I did not really have many expectations about how life would change because i was not really ever focusing on that on this journey.....There has always been a searching for Truth....often I have said out loud "Show me the Truth"....that has been a theme of mine for a long long time....(I am 51 at present).

Inspiration.....this is the thorny issue, its not the case that this event happened and inspiration dried up, no, its been a few months of mental struggle going on and 4 months of house sitting for a friend that has taken me away from my easel, and has most likely caused the issue of not feeling like painting.....but i also wonder that as I look back I can see that there was a huge amount of Myself invested in MY art work.....that if i were to describe the work I would say it is in more in the Expressionist style and that I was trained as a Landscape Painter in the UK....and here I can feel the Self and the Attachment to this statement!! The Story I have invested in.

Recently my work won a competition here in NZ, and that was interesting as it gave Self a big smile but at the same time there is the knowledge that the work does itself that I actually am a channel for creative expression and that thought seems to feel a bit uneasy....like its Politically Correct to say that now....does that make any sense?

I also sometimes get the thought that even though I have won awards for my work, here in NZ i struggle to sell and then I get the awful thought "why bother?" and this I am sure is attached to Self, because pure creative Flow would not care a hoot if selling occurred or not....but that one thought is enough to close me down and make me squirm big time.

Coming to LU...........I actually don't know what to expect from coming here, I am open to the process that you offer, and any insight that may occur through this exchange will be gratefully received. I suppose that if I can get beyond the thought of "why bother" then I will have made a huge step towards the unimpeded Flow of Creativity that is my essential nature as an artist. (quite a few of my artist friends felt the same kind of "why bother" feeling when the money dried up for people buying art....surely that feeling stems from attachment to Self?) So my hope is that I can get beyond this thought "why bother", and I hope you can help facilitate the process.

Thank you for taking the time to help.

Cheers Kathryn

User avatar
JonathanR
Posts: 3978
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: Painting paints, but inspiration has dried up!

Postby JonathanR » Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:35 pm

Hello Kathryn,

Thanks for your very informative reply. I live in the UK.
I downloaded the APP and read Gateless Gatecrashing and applied some of the exercises and found that when I listened to the ocean waves, there was only listening.....when looking at the ocean there was only looking.....when I felt the breeze on my face there was only sensation.......sitting on the rocks there was only sitting........and after some time of this I walked up the hill and it was like I "dissociated" a bit and there was only walking,
From what you have said it is quite possible that you have 'gone through the gateless gate'. Let's explore this, if you are willing? I'd like to start at the beginning, by assuming nothing. Guiding towards realisation of no self may or may not be necessary but we'll find out and I'm happy to offer to guide (if that's needed). We will, I promise, discuss the matter of inspiration / loss of inspiration too. I am a painter 'myself' and I recognise what you have mentioned..

Please take a look at the intro page of LU here,

http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

it contains our disclaimer and please find the short youtube video on 'looking' and watch it too.

http://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c


Some guidelines that I would like your agreement on:

1) Agree to post daily or near daily, email if you are not able.

2) Please set aside any other spiritual practices during this inquiry. Instead commit at this time, like you would for a meditation practice, to begin looking for this separate self, this "I"; look for what is the experience throughout the day as this looking happens. (Painting is OK).

3) I will ask questions and you answer.... listen very closely to the answers that arise in you.
Answer to the very best of your ability at that time.

4) You have spoken about the loss of artistic inspiration but please share any other concerns or fears that you may have concerning seeing through 'self'.

By the way it is a good idea to 'switch on the 'Full Editor' to enable the use of the 'Quote' feature, which highlights text in orange. I used it at the top of this message.

A note of caution though. Please either copy your writings to computer memory or compose your messages in a different editor and then 'paste' them here, as you can get 'logged off' automatically after a while and just as you submit your reply you can loose all your work! It seems to happen to everyone once!

Now, could you tell me what you think 'you' are?



best wishes,

Jonathan.

User avatar
samirah
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:11 pm

Re: Painting paints, but inspiration has dried up!

Postby samirah » Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:06 pm

Hi Jonathan

this sounds great to me, and I do agree to the stipulations.
I will spend time today regarding "What I think I am" and will write later on.
Now I will go watch the Youtube link and check out the intro page too.

I wish you a good evening Kathryn
oh and yes will try out the quote button.....

User avatar
samirah
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:11 pm

Re: Painting paints, but inspiration has dried up!

Postby samirah » Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:34 am

Hi Jonathan not sure why the quote just says
but any how here goes.........
Now, could you tell me what you think 'you' are?
1 There is physical matter, "prick me and I will bleed", and many automatic "functionings", like breathing etc.

2 There are memories, bodily sensations, looking, thoughts, emotions, hearing, all arising and falling. There is a movement that might be Desire also.

Awareness happens, or does not happen, for whatever reason.

Somethings feel good and better than others.

But things seem impersonal right now, especially when awareness and focusing are happening.
Through Direct Experience there is a feeling of detachment arising.
By this means "I" can see that there is a conglomeration of things happening or not happening.

As the day progresses there is an awareness of these openings and closings, one thing seamlessly flows into the next, things become clearer or less distinct depending on looking near or far.

Thoughts come and go mixed with memories and desires, all un-bidden by a "Me". Some are noticed and some envelope awareness, and awareness is lost before something brings awareness back and new thoughts arise to replace old.

Perhaps I can say also what I Am Not....

I am not these thoughts, feelings or emotions.

I am not a solid "thing":- there is movement, flowing, always, breathing, looking, eating, on and on it goes. But there is consciousness, an awareness of these flowing experiences.

Looking out of the window at the waves on the Ocean, wind whistling and trees being blown around, there is a sense of energy, a sense that the looking and sensing and the energy are part of a whole interconnected event. The colors are beautiful too.

In this Direct Experience moment there is no Fear arising, there is only this moment gliding into the next and the next and the next. There is no problem in this moment, or this one or this one......no jarring thoughts distract. Just this. At this moment I am whatever is happening, a stream of consciousness. Delightful.

Followed by a lazy procession of thoughts about Art and the making of Art and noticing that no art has recently been made, and the wondering when the flow will turn towards making Art again....wondering if there is something that can induce such a turn in the tide or is watching and waiting enough?

In gratitude Kathryn :)

User avatar
JonathanR
Posts: 3978
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: Painting paints, but inspiration has dried up!

Postby JonathanR » Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:12 am

Hi Kathryn,

Thank you for agreeing to the ground rules and for your latest post. Just to let you know, it's early morning here in England and I will reply after I finish work today. Unusually I have to work right through today, which is why I can't reply right now.


Best wishes_

Jonathan

User avatar
samirah
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:11 pm

Re: Painting paints, but inspiration has dried up!

Postby samirah » Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:44 am

Thanks for that no worries I look forward to your response. Tomorrow ! Cheers Kathryn

User avatar
samirah
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:11 pm

Re: Painting paints, but inspiration has dried up!

Postby samirah » Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:30 pm

Good Morning Jonathan......and good evening too,

I woke up this morning and realized full on Ahhha I am Not My Thoughts........they are sets of conditioned waves passing through me and I dont have to adhere to............memories mixing with events that I have latched onto......and when I turn over in bed there is no one turning either.............real nice sense of change in perception here today :) Kathryn

User avatar
JonathanR
Posts: 3978
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: Painting paints, but inspiration has dried up!

Postby JonathanR » Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:14 pm

Hi Kathryn,

Finally. I can answer. :-)

Forgive me for starting by firing questions at you. There is a lot in your messages that deserves attention but just for now I would like you to consider the following:
. read Gateless Gatecrashing and applied some of the exercises and found that when I listened to the ocean waves, there was only listening.....when looking at the ocean there was only looking.....when I felt the breeze on my face there was only sensation.......sitting on the rocks there was only sitting....
This is great. Direct Experience, right here and now.
Can you find any kind of line between 'you' and the looking?
Is there a place that can be located where 'you' end and 'world' begins?
. I am not these thoughts, feelings or emotions.
Are thoughts 'separate' from 'you'?
How do thoughts relate to the direct experience where there is only looking, only hearing and so on? Do thoughts not appear then? Look at this right now. This screen has words on it. They are being seen.

What is doing the seeing?
Do thoughts appear as part of this?

Since there is n 'me', no 'self', can thoughts be prevented from appearing? Including the thought 'I'?
. There is physical matter, "prick me and I will bleed", and many automatic "functionings", like breathing etc.
Are 'you' in your body? This is a very common perception.
. Followed by a lazy procession of thoughts about Art and the making of Art and noticing that no art has recently been made, and the wondering when the flow will turn towards making Art again....wondering if there is something that can induce such a turn in the tide or is watching and waiting enough?
Very good observations!
Can 'you' 'turn the tide'? Do 'you' take decisions, make choices, make things happen?

Isn't it that tides do turn? Decisions appear to be made? Choices seem to happen?

Watching is good. Noticing is good. Perhaps, after a while, it will seem that some change towards inspiration has happened?

Just relaying personal experience for a moment, it was my finding that after The Gate came an apparent inertia. This was perplexing since now, where was the self to take 'remedial action'? Where was inspiration going to 'come from'? Along the way, clearer thinking became possible and without having to 'make a decision' about anything a resolve formed and 'I' found that some sort of decision to get on with doing inspired paintings more or less floated into 'my mind'. From then on the apparent decision not to flounder inertly appears to have gained momentum. Mad as it sounds, this is what has happened here.



Jonathan♥

User avatar
samirah
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:11 pm

Re: Painting paints, but inspiration has dried up!

Postby samirah » Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:19 pm

Hey Jonathan well this will be an interesting day for sure many thanks :) Kathryn see you tomorrow !!

User avatar
samirah
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:11 pm

Re: Painting paints, but inspiration has dried up!

Postby samirah » Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:32 am

Hi Jonathan here goes .......

Can you find any kind of line between 'you' and the looking?
Is there a place that can be located where 'you' end and 'world' begins?
1 I am unable to find any solid boundary between where "me" might end and the "world" begins.

Are thoughts 'separate' from 'you'?
How do thoughts relate to the direct experience where there is only looking, only hearing and so on? Do thoughts not appear then? Look at this right now. This screen has words on it. They are being seen.

What is doing the seeing?
Do thoughts appear as part of this?

Since there is n 'me', no 'self', can thoughts be prevented from appearing? Including the thought 'I'?
2 When looking and hearing thoughts do appear and disappear, I will spend some moments now in

looking at the sea...........I labelled the call of the Tui bird.........a chainsaw started up

and i immediately started to think about that and who was it on a sunday morning......quiet

quiet, space space, oh "I wonder if Jonathan is a conceptual artist, hmmm i wonder what his work

looks like.......on and on.....yes thoughts are always nearby !!

The seeing is being done by the same field of awareness that sees, hears, touches, tastes and

smells.

Thoughts seem to be coming and going like a permanent ticker tape running through the field of

awareness, with some blanks inbetween, a few moments of silence.

I reckon the only way to stop thoughts permanently is to shoot myself (that is a joke by the

way)......but I see no way to apprehend or prevent thoughts from coming, I have no idea where

they come from and only suppose they return there when they go....I have no idea what my next

thought will be. The thought "I" will always arise along with everything else!!As will "me" and

"mine"......but i dont have to identify with these thoughts....I can see them and let them float

off again without getting bogged down in them.
Yes thoughts are separate from me, they independently arise and independently fall back. But if

a thought comes that says "oh just eat the last choccy biccy" I know I can ignore that

thought....yes I do have strong will power about choccy biccies !!!!


Are 'you' in your body? This is a very common perception.
4 Right now yes I am in residence. Aware of my Being.....I am not in the habit of Astral

Travel either..(chuckle here)...perhaps one could argue that dreaming is body independent...but I

have had a couple of experiences in specific conditions where I could also say that I was in an

expanded state of awareness.....sometimes meditation can do this to me a little bit......I have

not had a full on Unity Consciousness experience.....but then I dont go looking for it either.
I am not my body per se but its a jolly good vehicle to get around in.

Can 'you' 'turn the tide'? Do 'you' take decisions, make choices, make things happen?

Isn't it that tides do turn? Decisions appear to be made? Choices seem to happen?

5 Patience is a virtue !! The tides rise and fall to a circadian rhythm.....floating the boats

again.
Decisions can be made in as much as "I" can choose to turn left instead of right by free

will....."I" can choose chocolate ice cream over passion fruit...just ask me !!.....these things

happen.....if you want to be pedantic one can say "decisions appear to be made" but aren't we

entering the tricky path of Philosophy here and the corridors of Free Will?? And all that goes

along with that.
Sometimes if you wait long enough choices are made for you by circumstance.....one could say they

seem to happen.....one could say it all seems to happen......but there is also a liking of

chocolate happening too......I think we are skating on thin ice here.....but thats ok.
I think I get what you are driving at "is there a Me pulling the strings behind the wall" and I

would have to say no there is no Me in the driving seat, but there is a liking of this over

that.....especially chocolate. Yum!


So today was interesting......let me tell you something....pens were found, watercolors unearthed
and I sat in a chair looking out at the sea and did a couple of small watercolors.....and then (gasped amazement and drum roll please) I took the sketchbook out to the beach with me and sketched some.....now that is cool real cool......something dissolved here.....no self needed to take action as you say....inspiration to get my colors out arrived unannounced ... no trumpets, no shouting, no arguments about "why bother?"....nothing !!!!!!! Just that it silently arrived picked up the stuff sat me down and voila a bunch of sketches made....now that is COOL WAY COOL dont you think?

So thanks soooo much for being there its been a great day for me.........what a cool adventure !!
Blessings and more Blessings Kathryn :)
( not sure why I got all these double lines in the format oopps )

User avatar
JonathanR
Posts: 3978
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: Painting paints, but inspiration has dried up!

Postby JonathanR » Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:57 pm

Hi Kathryn

Thanks for your reply. Wow, that was quick with the watercolours!


From reading your various responses to my questions I would say that there is more to realise. (This is NOT to belittle the importance of what has been seen already, by the way). There are definitely things we could usefully look at though.

What happens now is very much up to you. Having started to paint again there may be no problem at all and you may wish to leave this conversation at this stage. If you'd like to take things 'further' I am willing to guide. I would guide towards the realisation that 'I' exists only in thought - as an idea. The entire illusion of 'me' and 'self' is generated through thought alone.

Let me know if you would like to proceed with this.

So pleased that painting has 'come back' :-) I am not a conceptual artist by the way. Vastly more likely to paint the sea in watercolours, which is my main medium.


best wishes,

Jonathan.

User avatar
samirah
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:11 pm

Re: Painting paints, but inspiration has dried up!

Postby samirah » Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:41 pm

Good morning from here Jonathan where its 4.39 in the morning !!!
I realized later last evening that there is definitely more work to be done if there is to be an understanding of this perception.............so hey I am here and you are willing to Guide so Please lets carry on ........ K :)

User avatar
JonathanR
Posts: 3978
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: Painting paints, but inspiration has dried up!

Postby JonathanR » Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:08 pm

OK Kathryn,

Here goes then! What I'll be doing is Direct Pointing. What I ask or say may or may not make immediate sense. Just answer as truthfully as possible from immediate experience rather than from much thinking and conceptualisation.
The seeing is being done by the same field of awareness that sees, hears, touches, tastes and

smells.
Would you say, then, ' I am awareness'?

Yes thoughts are separate from me, they independently arise and independently fall back.
Thoughts certainly seem to have a life of their own don't they, but is it quite true to say they are 'separate'?
Separate from what? If they are separate, how are thoughts known?

Do thoughts appear in awareness?
But if a thought comes that says "oh just eat the last choccy biccy" I know I can ignore that

thought....
Who or what 'ignores this thought'?
Right now yes I am in residence. Aware of my Being. I am not my body per se but its a jolly good vehicle to get around in.
This is a very interesting area.
There is very often the assumption that the body 'performs' and is responsible for all the senses..

Let's take 'seeing' to begin with.
In standard communication, we say 'I see' and it may (or may not) be assumed that it is the body that is 'me' that is doing the seeing.

So - Right now examine your experience.
The words on the screen are being seen. What are they being seen by?
From thought, we have the idea that 'I see the screen'.
So what is 'I'? What can be found right here and now in your experience that is 'seeing the screen'.

Can anything be found? There is the thought 'I see', but is there actually an 'I' to be found that does the seeing?
If so, what is that?
Do you experience a body seeing? Or would you say that there is there just 'seeing'? Just the experience alone? '


Decisions can be made in as much as "I" can choose to turn left instead of right by free

will....."I" can choose chocolate ice cream over passion fruit...just ask me !!.....these things

happen.
I know what you mean but try this...
Raise your right arm (or don’t). In that process of raising the right arm (or not), a decision is made, or at least something happens (or doesn’t). But can you pinpoint the actual moment of choice and find the actual entity that appears to be making that choice? In direct experience, can that moment of choice, that apparent chooser, actually be found? Or does the idea 'I just chose to (not) raise my right arm' come after the event itself?

I think I get what you are driving at "is there a Me pulling the strings behind the wall" and I

would have to say no there is no Me in the driving seat, but there is a liking of this over

that.....especially chocolate. Yum!
Yes. True. Do 'you' 'decide' to 'like this or that'? Do 'you' 'choose' one over the other. or does choice just happen?
(Think about how you initially described the creative process of painting in your introductory message).

There is loads to look at here...


best wishes,


Jonathan.


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MSN [Bot] and 2 guests