Ready and willing - looking for guide, thanks!

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Colette
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Ready and willing - looking for guide, thanks!

Postby Colette » Sun Sep 28, 2014 12:18 am

Hello,

I am looking for a guide to hold me accountable to process who is a good tracker who can address me uniquely and precisely as generalities don't work super well for me...

No longer believe in practice or ritual of any kind as a way to relinquish this illusion - only the direct seeing (15 years, path/practice as primary occupation). The challenge is that the majority of life is easy, stress-free (practice will do that), and no thought about future, past, or individual self - but when there is, wowsa, where did that angry siren come from! - the depths of the body. Mind remains light and easy, emotions pass like the weather and are usually sunny, but encounters with hypocrisy, fraudulent spiritual people (ooo, don't get me started - hahahaha) - well, there "I" is... freakin' pissed...

I say that the reason I am stuck caring about what other people think is due to some freaky empathetic/psychic abilities I've picked up along the way which serve no purpose. I just know when someone is thinking of me (I have high accuracy, it's not made up) and often know what people are really up to (if I tell them, it doesn't go over well, but if do, they come back 6 months, a year, ten years later and say, oh my god, how did you know - I don't know how it happens, it just appears in my mind and body - I can feel them as if it were me)... and I can't seem to break the reception of the images and feelings and have trouble differentiating what is me and what is them. Ends up a swirl and just wait it out. Am over self-cherishing, my own hypocrisy, and the demons ready to jump from the depths imagining throttling a self-proclaimed master- why do I care?? - (yes, writing this helping me, I will look now at who cares)

The lightness of how empty mind remains through all is what has confounded me and fooled others or elicited comments such as 'your right there, I don't get it" and "I can see you seeing it" - I don't get it either. Somewhere along the way, I just knew I didn't know anymore why "I" hangs on like a perpetual backdrop ready to take form at provocation - seeing that all, but not finding source doesn't seems to just leave a cloud of confusion rather than release, until it passes of it's own accord.

I was moved by the story of Michael in the Gateless book, so hard to read the Michael part as my mind has trouble focusing on words these days in general and I know that story so well - but was profoundly moved by the direct honest response of guide and his willingness, beautiful.

Committed to totally honesty and wanting to be done -
Thanks so much - in appreciation,
Colette

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Sarah7
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Re: Ready and willing - looking for guide, thanks!

Postby Sarah7 » Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:39 am

Hey Collette and welcome!

My name is Sarah and I would be happy to guide you! I see you have read the book - do you follow posts? Have you had a look round?

What are your expectations for this process?

What is it that you are searching for and how will you know that you found it?

How will this feel or change you?
Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Colette
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Re: Ready and willing - looking for guide, thanks!

Postby Colette » Sun Sep 28, 2014 12:41 pm

Hi Sarah! - Awesome, thanks :)

Re: book, have not read in entirety. Just the section about Michael. A friend bought the book for me specifically for that one. Was a voracious reader since childhood until a year ago last June when a teacher of mine did something in the reply to my questions about tracking the sense of an individual self, and I have yet to read a book since. Eyes have trouble focusing on text unless someone is addressing me or me someone directly. Eyes are physically fine... but hard to read. weird, huh? :) ... But prior to a year and a half ago, Tony Parson's was one dialog book that was useful, and liked Nisargadata Maharaj too - in terms of affecting glimpses.

Expectations... hmmmmm, well have none really. Hope, yes. The hope is to have someone be able to point out what I am not seeing about the way this illusion holds in me because it's strong in grip but elusive when inquiring. Thousands of hours of inquiry, lots of letting go, lots of flow - but the way "I" arises in response still, taking things 'personally' - clearly more to see! - but when I look, I can't find "I" anymore. It is more of a jumping up in reaction then a constant perception. Then it subsides and back to flow. Mind is quick and irregular unless there is engagement, then there is better focus, sometimes like a laser.

Re searching for: The flow is continuous, but incessant chatter and milling about by the "I" within it, or perhaps flow is still experienced as inside a giant "I", like a backdrop instead of foreground. So I guess I'll know I've found the core of my ignorance (searching for) when the chatter subsides and body stops producing reactive "I" message in response to what it finds as ... fill in the blank (stupid, insulting, inferior, hypocritical - ) the release of which experienced as relaxing. the non-reactiveness is how I will know I found it...

Does that also answer the question how I think it will change me? - I'd say it's an emotional shift.

Thanks so much for your time! - so so appreciate it.
xoxo

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Sarah7
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Re: Ready and willing - looking for guide, thanks!

Postby Sarah7 » Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:57 pm

Hi Colette
Just so that I know about any time differences, whereabouts do you live? I’m in England.

There are also a few standard ground rules before we start:

Please agree to post at least once a day, even if only to say that you're still around, and I'll do the same. Sometimes it might just not be possible for one of us to post substantively and of course we'd find a way to work round that.

I am not your teacher, all I can do is point and you look, until clear seeing happens.

In general, I will ask questions and you look deeply and respond with 100% honesty.

Responses require simple, uncontrived honest looking. There are no wrong or right answers.

Responses are best from direct experience (the physical evidence of seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, and smelling, prior to the story or explanation about them). Long-winded, analytical and philosophical or stream of consciousness answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. Just listen very closely to the answers that arise in you, and answer to the very best of your ability at that time. (Read the article at http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ience.html for more help on distinguishing what is direct experience.)

Put aside all other teachings, philosophies etc. for the duration of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention into seeing this reality, as it is. (If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it's ok to continue with that. And it's fine to read threads in this forum and the Gateless Gatecrashers book.)

Please learn to use the quote function, see viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660 for instructions.

If you haven't already seen it, there is intro info at http://www.liberationunleashed.com/, together with our disclaimer and a short video.

Please confirm that you have seen these, that you agree to the disclaimer and then we'll begin.

Finally, here's a couple of helpful points:

1) You can press 'subscribe to this topic' in the blue bar at the bottom of this page and receive a notification email every time I post here.

2) The site has a nasty habit of logging you out while you write a reply, which can mean you lose what you have written. One way to avoid this is to write elsewhere, then just paste the message into the 'reply' window when you're ready to send.

Look forward to working with you.
Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Colette
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Re: Ready and willing - looking for guide, thanks!

Postby Colette » Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:17 pm

Ok! - Got it. Agreed.

So I understand - have my answers seemed analytically so far? - or was that instruction for future engagement?
I'll look at all the links you have asked me to and will respond as soon as I have.
I'll be back in touch daily and let you know when I have reviewed everything.
I am in New Mexico, Central Standard time.

I can tell engaging here will be fruitful because I feel anxiety to agree and do it. :)

thanks Sarah, more soon.

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Sarah7
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Re: Ready and willing - looking for guide, thanks!

Postby Sarah7 » Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:03 pm

Hi Colette, it was for future posts! OK. I'll post again when you have had chance to look around. OK!
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Colette
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Re: Ready and willing - looking for guide, thanks!

Postby Colette » Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:13 pm

Hi! - I am so sorry, I seem to be having technical difficulty all the way around. drat.

...though I have looked at quote instructions, am not seeing a place to type (it seems to resent the entire passage) - seems like really simply instruction so not sure what I am doing wrong...

...Links appears broken re: (Read the article at http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ience.html for more help on distinguishing what is direct experience.)

... can't find: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

ack. But agree to disclaimer and all else. I'll try the quote function again in a few hours to see if my computer is hanging up on something, or my brain is :)

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Colette
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Re: Ready and willing - looking for guide, thanks!

Postby Colette » Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:15 am

Ha-ha! - I think I got the quote thing working now -

But never found this:
(Read the article at http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ience.html for more help on distinguishing what is direct experience.)


(I think I've got the jist, so unless you think I should read, happy to start without.)

Otherwise, I am ready to roll.

Oh yes, very interesting day BTW, process of agreeing and engaging has begun something -

Had intense hatred come up, no object, super irritable, felt overwhelmed ... rage... tension, extreme body tension - and I asked, who is angry, who feels this and per usual could not find someone - but was different this time as rather exploring why it might come up or trying to calm down, just let it be and kept noting there was no one having the feeling, only the feeling happening, A feeling like, whoosh about 10 minutes later, and suddenly tons of energy, bright bright, and faces of people I have recently felt 'scorched by' (rejected, denied, not attended by) - appeared to me with feeling great gratitude ... no projection other than love.

(since you don't know me, won't go into it, but just for context: I don't actually live anywhere, I travel a lot thus New Mexico is not my 'home' just is where I am. And there is a woman here who is also traveling I've known from a distance for many years. We've met up here, and she is very very strong and dominant, something I've often had an issue with and who has been stimulating a source for projection for me this past week. Her initial is M.)

My mind doubts, tests things - so it 'tests' the openings by conjuring up things that piss me off - conjured M., nothing. Surrounded by nice inner light.

Bumped into her walking the dog tonight, just warmth. Happy.

Rest of day has been smooth, slight body tension around order of operations tonight (creative work), but passed quickly.

input?

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Sarah7
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Re: Ready and willing - looking for guide, thanks!

Postby Sarah7 » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:05 pm

Hi Colette
OK Im going to dig a round a bit – as I prefer to be thorough and to make sure everything has been looked at. So forgive me if we kind of backtrack. Hope that is OK. Take your time and have a right good look!

At this very moment how do you think, feel or experience the 'self', 'I' or ‘me’'? Now I know you have stated that ‘I’ cannot be found – but can you just check all the possibilities below for me and if still ‘I’ cant be found than that’s fine.

For instance does it feel like its in the centre or middle of experience, is it solid or thick, does it feel fixed or permanent, is it inside the body or part of the body, does it change, does it feel uniquely different and separate, does it become more or less solid or obvious depending on experience, does it have colour or shape or texture, is it small or large, does this self own the body or the thoughts and feelings it experiences?

Is it made up of thoughts and feelings, sensations, emotions, likes and dislikes, opinions, memories and experiences, perceptions, character and personality, does this self decide, chose, act, do and control? Anything else? Is there a time when the self is not experienced?

Now have a really good look and tell me where does the 'self' that you conceive yourself to be reside? Is it in the body as a whole, part of the body or somewhere else? Can you pinpoint an exact reference point? Can it be found, at all?

There is absolutely no "you" in any way, shape, or form. No "you" thinking your thoughts. No "you" living your life. There never has been a "you" nor will there ever be. Take those statements deep inside. Really let them sink in. What physical sensations do you notice? What thoughts do you notice? What feelings do you notice?

You are what you are looking for. You ‘are’ what you seek. Take those statements deep inside. Really let them sink in. What physical sensations do you notice? What thoughts do you notice? What feelings do you notice?

Can anything exist outside the present moment? Can you find anything that does? In your direct experience, is there anything permanent right now? What makes the "I" so permanent in our eyes?
Hugs Sarah xx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Colette
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Re: Ready and willing - looking for guide, thanks!

Postby Colette » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:14 pm

Oooo, very good exploration...

Since I wrote last, I have noticed the "I" now as thought, thick, cloudy (dense but not solid) in void space, not a part of body - but also not in or out of anywhere... no context as to a where. Am just starting to track... definitely strong, sharp thought.

More soon. :)

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Colette
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Re: Ready and willing - looking for guide, thanks!

Postby Colette » Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:33 am

Update: Got HUGE triggers to work with today to disrupt ease of yesterday (rejection, dumped on, upheaval), vibration in body, chemical stirring feeling, doesn't feel good, cloudy seeing - mind very jumpy - all over the place... want ot run, cry, and calm too, seem to be looking at life, but what is looking at this life? This is the confusion of my awareness, it doesn't know what it is and thinks its an "I" - it is looking down from on the roof whilst feeling there is no one but this "I" - all else if foreign and far away down a tunnel... has no characteristic (such as male/female) except volatility and emotionalism on provocation. It's a bright pinpoint of light which is constant but changes qualities, from no-self to befuddled to sorrow... it watches emotions as if not me far away who has emotional temper issues. It dislikes, "I" is invisible to others.

Coping mechanism is also "I" - humiliated (not as result of failing to be liberated, but since I was 5), don't want to be seen (as in want to hide from people, want to see clearly so to end the game, want to know what THIS is) - tears, sorrow, unending sorrow - who is sad? - I don't know, because I don't know who I am (that is the voice, I know the logic, but relaying the voice and view)

Something says 'there is no-thing!' - respite, it is true. But it is not the view. It is a state, temporary.
does this self own the body or the thoughts and feelings it experiences
Yes! - it owns a dialog of self-referencing. ... when there is speech, 'there is MY Speech" and "what I think"
does this self decide, chose, act, do and control? Anything else? Is there a time when the self is not experienced?
- yes and no, appears to happen both ways, sometimes I hear - "now!" (the dialog of me) which wants to move me, other times involuntarily move ... 'I' thinks it is in control of what 'I' do. (geez, I sure has a lot of I's)
does it become more or less solid or obvious depending on experience
yes! Sometimes it is acute like a stabbing point in my gut, sometimes like a cloudy confusion that is thick and defuse, can't find edges, sometimes I can't sense it at all... which is confusing and like a floppy laytex mattress - heavy and unwieldy... have trouble focusing, just floppy and diffuse...
Can anything exist outside the present moment? Can you find anything that does? In your direct experience, is there anything permanent right now? What makes the "I" so permanent in our eyes?
Nothing exists outside the present moment, it is happening now, or not - the "I" feels permanent because of the forceful and consistent way for which it appears.
There is absolutely no "you" in any way, shape, or form. No "you" thinking your thoughts. No "you" living your life. There never has been a "you" nor will there ever be. Take those statements deep inside. Really let them sink in. What physical sensations do you notice? What thoughts do you notice? What feelings do you notice?
I am having trouble 'taking them in' (though I agree) - they are like theories bouncing off a laytex brain, concepts which feel distant. Either it appears to me this way, or it does not, in the moment, similar words come to me at times, then they are 'inside' and I can see them, but they pass too - but otherwise they glide over the mind not making contact...

(was a MAJOR contemplator and reader, use to track words and end up making my mind into their meaning - but was only a state, wouldn't penetrate THIS hiding, wouldn't last either, lost that function anyway - not sure why - will try again tonight in earnest - I know they are true!)

oh vey what a sticky wicket! - so much confusion! - onward ho. Sorry about the mess. :)
Thank you - !!!
xoxo
-c

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Sarah7
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Re: Ready and willing - looking for guide, thanks!

Postby Sarah7 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:33 pm

Hi Colette
Sorry if I have given you too much! Please let me know if I do! Ill wait till you've had time to go through everything then! OK.
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Colette
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Re: Ready and willing - looking for guide, thanks!

Postby Colette » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:13 pm

No no! - not too much - the confusion was not a result of your probing, that was excellent! - the confusion is the extreme nature of an aspect of this mind getting flushed out of its hiddie-hole. You were right on the money, and for the first time, I am able to keep this "I" sense front and center WITHOUT it skittering off in a very very long time. So perfect - thank you!

Here's what's up since last:
Feelings of chemical stirring inside, fast movement of emotions and sensations - and this ball is the center of emotion which says nothing, just is "I" - when it speaks, it has already sidestepped, already is conceptualized and thus appears inwardly untouched by word. Thought/word seems to be like a feather to a volcano, rebuffed as 'lie' to it's 'truth', the truth of its existence, which it 'knows' to be true because there it is... causing havoc. So more or less, it proves it''s existence with bad feeling - thick density floating in space (Just to be clear, I know this is the lie, not the other way around, however, def not seen it through).

Staying with this ball, cuz this seems to be it. If I try and use words, I seem to end up in intellect where there is already full agreement and experience of no-self.

Let me know if you think I'm doing the wrong approach by staying with this "I" - letting it be ... and I'll shift to what you recommend.

There has been slight shift in "I" - though stronger, to the fore, it's not producing the level of insanity it was last night... now it is dislike, blame, criticism, bad tempered, force, waiting to jump on something it disapproves of... but not in interaction with people, in thinking ABOUT people or interaction... direct experience with people is warm and open, but "I" comments incessantly about it afterwards with a crappy attitude, like ink seeping into a clear pale of water, feeling of being 'poisoned' -

I'll keep on this "I" directly if you agree...or redirect accordingly if you have suggestion - thank you!
More soon -
xoxo
-c

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Colette
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Re: Ready and willing - looking for guide, thanks!

Postby Colette » Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:04 am

End of day:

I lost the ball! - not sure what happened to it (dissolved??), so will begin again with your inquiry about where "I" is, because everything is clear, light, and flowing again without center or cause, but given the record... :)

xx

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Sarah7
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Re: Ready and willing - looking for guide, thanks!

Postby Sarah7 » Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:28 pm

Hi Colette
Staying with this ball, cuz this seems to be it. If I try and use words, I seem to end up in intellect where there is already full agreement and experience of no-self.
OK – this sounds like thoughts trying to understand? You already experience the problem with words trying to explain this – do you see my point here? Thoughts will NEVER understand. This may or may not crop up again – so we can look at it then. OK!
There has been slight shift in "I" - though stronger,
So ‘I’ is not permanent? It comes and goes? Where does it go too? How does it come and go?

OK – a nice little exercise! Lets have a look at labelling and how we label.

Id like you to just sit for 5 - 10 minutes with a paper and pen and I want you to record everything you notice. I want you too look at what experiences come up, what actions you notice, what labels you see and WHERE they are applied, what feelings and emotions come up, and what sensations arise.

Don’t add to what shows itself, don’t analyse, just plain description. Watch the body for any sensations like relaxing or tightening. Just write me a list like - I am lying in bed, I am hearing the rain, I am writing this list, I can feel a sensation of relaxing etc….

Id like you then to repeat the exercise doing exactly the same as you did above, but this time I don’t want you to use the word ‘I’ or ‘me’ when you write the list of what you notice. Again don’t add to what shows itself, don’t analyse, just plain description. Watch the body for any sensations like relaxing or tightening. Just write me a list like - waiting for the next thought, writing, breathing, listening, relaxing sensation etc…

What do you notice from doing the two looking exercises? Which feels truer?
Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.


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