Being at ease ready steady go..am I there yet?

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Lucid
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Being at ease ready steady go..am I there yet?

Postby Lucid » Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:59 pm

Greetings,
I keep thinking I will just do this on my own, I'm almost there, maybe I am there already.. Everyday feeling the questions softening, the stories fading (though they have let me know or consciousness has, that they will be there if/when I need them). But then I keep thinking about you (all).. Why not reach out? Am I afraid?
I've been on a path of awakening for 26 years - since a profound experience of unity consciousness when I was 16, newly sober after an addicted and violent number of years, and in a circle, knowing for sure that we are all one, working together as one toward betterment for all...visions of beauty and grace, a rainbow teepee from each color of us up to the sky.
From recovery groups and therapy to yoga I found my way out of despair and into light. Much healing from trauma and abuse. When I was 23, struggling with identity, I awoke again to remembrance of all beings within me, myself within all things. Struggles eased more as being whatever each moment brought was allowed.
Years of yoga and meditation, healing from stories, strengthening and building confidence, ease, moving away from reactivity, harmful patterns of behavior and language.
Phew.
Diving into non-dual Saiva tantra...feeling right at home.. So yes! And familiar. Had never considered wanting to awaken before. Enlightenment seemed too fluffy. Most important to me has just been to be my best and available to help all beings to evolve and live healthy and happy. I teach yoga. I've been reading Jed McKenna with mixed feelings. Have come to realize that I have actually been on a path to awakening for a long time and that it is for the highest good for all and not up to "me" anymore at all whether or not I do. Found bought and read gateless gate crashers.. Am in accord with so much I've read. Questions rising and fading... I've been writing other work, but I cannot stay on task so much as I keep coming back to this...
Hello I'm at the gate? Can I come in? Am I in? Is it happening as it will or does this I need a push. Is there something yet unseen?
Self is a collection of behaviors and memories conditioned into this bodymind. It is a thought, a collection of thoughts. It can be handy and used when I choose but not the basis of reality.
Is there a me? No. Only one of stories. A fictional character that I love, that is familiar.
I just wish to be a clear vessel for the flow of life moving thru unencumbered, unhindered.
I want a community that understands and can be communicated with. Thank you for bringing us together and helping to clarify the truth.
Blessed be

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Mad biker
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Re: Being at ease ready steady go..am I there yet?

Postby Mad biker » Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:37 am

I think I have someone for you Lucid.
Back to you in the morning.
Mb

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Dava
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Re: Being at ease ready steady go..am I there yet?

Postby Dava » Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:01 am

Hi Lucid,

I will be happy to guide you.
If you haven't done so already, could you read through the introductory info on the homepage, particulRly the disclaimer; http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Please let me know if you would like me to guide you after reading this and we will take it from there.

Best wishes,
Dave

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Lucid
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Re: Being at ease ready steady go..am I there yet?

Postby Lucid » Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:51 am

Hi Dave
Thank you fr reaching out. I have read the disclaimer and am of sound mind and chemistry, have stability in life across the board and am not afraid of whatever else might b ahead...
Can you please tell me a bit about the path or process that got you here, and where you are now.? It looks like you just got here the day before me. Yes? In appreciation,
Lucid

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Dava
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Re: Being at ease ready steady go..am I there yet?

Postby Dava » Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:38 am

Okay, no problem.

I was guided and finally saw through the illusion of self through direct pointing about 6 months ago. This process (and subsequent web-based interactions) occurred off this forum, which is why until now you won't see any posts from me.
For the last 12 years I have practised within the Buddhist tradition, and am ordained within the Triratna Buddhist Order. However, for the purposes of this dialogue, the paradigm is direct experience, rather any particular spiritual formulation.

So, here we go then.

From reading your initial post it's clear that you're on the scent and seeking some clarification after what sounds like quite a rich time leading up to this. You're in the right place to do this and I will be glad to assist you in the process.

We could discuss some of the experiences you wrote about in your introduction, and their significance, but what is important at this point is that we strip things right down to the bare essentials and work with what is actually happening right now. Where direct experience is concerned there is no need for speculation or narrative.

Before we proceed further, I just want to lay out an agreement that will form the basis for our dialogue, and make sure you are willing to continue on this basis.

1. You agree to post regularly (ideally once a day).
2. In general, the guide will ask the questions for you to respond to.
3. Responses require your utmost honesty.
4. Responses are best from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Longwinded
analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
5. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation.
Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and
essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
6. Please learn to use the quote function; instructions are located in the link below this line:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660”

In addition, I request that you use fully written, complete sentences in plain English with no words missing, no triple dots (...) no abbreviations and no slang terms or figures of speech, as the all of the latter can impede comprehension.

You may find it useful to click the 'subscribe to topic' option at the bottom left of the screen, which will keep you updated via e-mail whenever I post.

Also, please note that I am in the UK, so living in the GMT timezone.

Please confirm that you understand and agree so that we can continue.

Best wishes,
Dave

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Lucid
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Re: Being at ease ready steady go..am I there yet?

Postby Lucid » Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:39 pm

Hi Dave,
Thank you so much for your thorough response. I appreciate you sharing your experience.
I have subscribed to post so look forward to email alerts. The link led me to another thread of someone seeking peace and clarity,I did not find instructions on how to use the quote function but I will investigate that and use copy/paste for now. I agree to do my best to post once a day, sometimes Thursdays or Sundays could be a challenge. I am on the west coast of USA. I am open to all questions and dedicated to honesty.
I will not read other things, though have a dedicated physical practice and kula that is free of dogma which I will be in an open connection with. I learned about you guys from kula mate, and about the gateless gate from my tantrik teacher.

It appears you've noticed some writing habits I have already. Releasing these now and responding with simple clarity. I may need to be called out on analyzing or narrating but I will do my best to stay direct and directed.
Humbly yours,
Lucid

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Dava
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Re: Being at ease ready steady go..am I there yet?

Postby Dava » Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:51 pm

Great stuff,

The correct quote link is here;
http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

I didn't actually notice your writing habits, it's a general request really, but thanks for the willingness to keep things straightforward. Full, expansive answers are fine, go for your life. If I notice things are drifting, I'll let you know.

So, lets get started.

You have given a comprehensive outline of your personal history in relation to what might be called truth seeking.
Bringing things to where we are now, I would like to know what hopes and expectations have brought you to engage in this dialogue. Specifically, what do you hope to get out of this journey and what do you expect it to be like if you are successful?

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Lucid
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Re: Being at ease ready steady go..am I there yet?

Postby Lucid » Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:05 pm

Greetings,
"Bringing things to where we are now, I would like to know what hopes and expectations have brought you to engage in this dialogue. Specifically, what do you hope to get out of this journey and what do you expect it to be like if you are successful?"
I don't have the quote feature down yet. It keeps bringing me back to the beginning of the thread when I select and hit quote.. I am short on technologic patience, choosing to move forward and try again next time.
Where I am now is that since awakening to what awakening actually means and releasing my fluffy ideas / pre/mis-conceptions around it, EVERYTHING is speaking to this ; Writings, songs, movies, voices from the labyrinth where I do a walking meditation, dreams, my partners interests, videos he shares, neuroscience, etc..
So I have not been led to this point by a particular set of hopes or expectations but rather by the next steps simply revealing themselves, calling forward motion .
My only hope or expectations as I have set to work in any relevant work (which has led me here) have been simply to live into fullness that I may be a clear vessel for healing light, inspiration, goodness, truth.
What I hope to get out of this journey, what I expect to be like if I am successful is for the stories of what i am or am not to fall away, (including my idea that I am technologically inept). These past years have seen much in the way of reactive behavior patterns falling away. I am finding more often than not now a grace of ease and soft humor when others are triggered around me or by me rather than previously characteristic defense or blame. I assume that this will continue , hope that maybe it will even quit being an issue altogether. I hope that subconscious ideas of what I can or cannot do, limiting beliefs received from my parents or society around being "too much" or not enough will also be revealed and extinguished that I may purely flow with what life is inspired to do with this bodymind.
Infinite love and gratitude,
Lucid

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Lucid
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Re: Being at ease ready steady go..am I there yet?

Postby Lucid » Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:25 pm

Greetings,
"Bringing things to where we are now, I would like to know what hopes and expectations have brought you to engage in this dialogue. Specifically, what do you hope to get out of this journey and what do you expect it to be like if you are successful?"
I don't have the quote feature down yet. It keeps bringing me back to the beginning of the thread when I select and hit quote.. I am short on technologic patience, choosing to move forward and try again next time.
Where I am now is that since awakening to what awakening actually means and releasing my fluffy ideas / pre/mis-conceptions around it, EVERYTHING is speaking to this ; Writings, songs, movies, voices from the labyrinth where I do a walking meditation, dreams, my partners interests, videos he shares, neuroscience, etc..
So I have not been led to this point by a particular set of hopes or expectations but rather by the next steps simply revealing themselves, calling forward motion .
My only hope or expectations as I have set to work in any relevant work (which has led me here) have been simply to live into fullness that I may be a clear vessel for healing light, inspiration, goodness, truth.
What I hope to get out of this journey, what I expect to be like if I am successful is for the stories of what i am or am not to fall away, (including my idea that I am technologically inept). These past years have seen much in the way of reactive behavior patterns falling away. I am finding more often than not now a grace of ease and soft humor when others are triggered around me or by me rather than previously characteristic defense or blame. I assume that this will continue , hope that maybe it will even quit being an issue altogether. I hope that subconscious ideas of what I can or cannot do, limiting beliefs received from my parents or society around being "too much" or not enough will also be revealed and extinguished that I may purely flow with what life is inspired to do with this bodymind.
Infinite love and gratitude,
Lucid

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Dava
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Re: Being at ease ready steady go..am I there yet?

Postby Dava » Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:43 pm

I don't have the quote feature down yet. It keeps bringing me back to the beginning of the thread when I select and hit quote.. I am short on technologic patience, choosing to move forward and try again next time.
Okay, after you hit reply, copy and paste the section of my text you wish to quote into the reply box, then highlight the text, then press the quote option above the reply box. This will surround my text with the words 'quote' and if you click preview you can see that my text has been quoted.
If this continues to be a problem then don't worry, it's no big deal.
Where I am now is that since awakening to what awakening actually means and releasing my fluffy ideas / pre/mis-conceptions around it, EVERYTHING is speaking to this ; Writings, songs, movies, voices from the labyrinth where I do a walking meditation, dreams, my partners interests, videos he shares, neuroscience, etc..
So I have not been led to this point by a particular set of hopes or expectations but rather by the next steps simply revealing themselves, calling forward motion.
I like this observation.
Would it be accurate to say that you sense that it's not so much a case of you doing the awakening, but awakening doing you?
My only hope or expectations as I have set to work in any relevant work (which has led me here) have been simply to live into fullness that I may be a clear vessel for healing light, inspiration, goodness, truth.
What I hope to get out of this journey, what I expect to be like if I am successful is for the stories of what i am or am not to fall away, (including my idea that I am technologically inept). These past years have seen much in the way of reactive behavior patterns falling away. I am finding more often than not now a grace of ease and soft humor when others are triggered around me or by me rather than previously characteristic defense or blame. I assume that this will continue , hope that maybe it will even quit being an issue altogether. I hope that subconscious ideas of what I can or cannot do, limiting beliefs received from my parents or society around being "too much" or not enough will also be revealed and extinguished that I may purely flow with what life is inspired to do with this bodymind.
Okay, it's good to call up these expectations at this point.
In one sense, expectations can be seen to serve a useful purpose, since they often serve as a kind of a lure into territory which then defies expectations, or burns them up. But at this point, now you are here, we can park those expectations, however accurate or inaccurate they may be, and concentrate on Direct Experience, the here and now.

Expectations are also a great starting point for our investigation, since by their very nature, they rely on the existence of a separate self to whom hopes and fears attach.

Calling to mind an expectation in your Direct Experience, what do you see?
On whose behalf does it arise?
Is there a "bodymind" or "vessel" to which experience, and the fulfilment of expectations happens?

Best wishes,
Dave

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Lucid
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Re: Being at ease ready steady go..am I there yet?

Postby Lucid » Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:07 pm

Oh yes, awakening is doing me, it is just happening.
Calling to mind a direct experience of expectation;
There is a felt sense of expectation in the body as there are thoughts in the mind.
I do expect this bodymind to show up the way I/this life has conditioned them to.
I do hope for... ,. Ugh!. .As I try to articulate this, everything falls away.. There is no one to hope. Darn. I like(d) hope. Is this narrative? I am narrating my experience as I go because it is changing as I try to write. There are physical and emotional movements attached to this change. I feel light tingly upset nauseous...overjoyed, explosive, dead calm at center with an ocean of nervousness swirling above. Releasing hope. Will I not hope or fear? Is this how I will know I have truly seen beyond the construct of "I"?
Yes, I think there is a vessel, this bodymind to which things happen to or move through, but not a "me" that things happen to.- though this last part I see i am still grocking.

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Lucid
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Re: Being at ease ready steady go..am I there yet?

Postby Lucid » Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:33 pm

Is there a "bodymind" or "vessel" to which experience, and the fulfilment of expectations happens?
Aha! I figured it out! (The quote function that is)
AND IT IS very helpful as then I won't skip things that I intend to respond to. Specifically, is there a vessel or bodymind to which the fulfillment of expectation happens?! Now, reflecting on this, I see that it still must be an I / thought and not the vessel that is having the expectation because indeed it is the I thought that gets fulfillment, besides eating actual food the body I don't think cares about whether or not other things happen or not. Although the body needs and craves connection, intimacy, touch. Is this the I that expects or hopes for these things, or the body? It is the I or is it life force moving through that seeks out the fulfillment of needs for the body. Where does seeking of fulfillment of these basic needs and ego needs separate? Sorry, know you are supposed to be asking these questions, but i am asking myself. Ok, now I've got myself confused.
So grateful for reflection devoid of I.
Humble Pranams
Lucid

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Dava
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Re: Being at ease ready steady go..am I there yet?

Postby Dava » Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:28 pm

There is a felt sense of expectation in the body as there are thoughts in the mind.
I do expect this bodymind to show up the way I/this life has conditioned them to.
I do hope for... ,. Ugh!. .As I try to articulate this, everything falls away.. There is no one to hope. Darn. I like(d) hope. Is this narrative? I am narrating my experience as I go because it is changing as I try to write. There are physical and emotional movements attached to this change. I feel light tingly upset nauseous...overjoyed, explosive, dead calm at center with an ocean of nervousness swirling above. Releasing hope. Will I not hope or fear? Is this how I will know I have truly seen beyond the construct of "I"?
We can see here that when brought into the light of Direct Experience, such notions are seen for what they are, and upon examination fall away, dissolve. We're basically going to just keep doing this, a bit like turning over rocks to see what's underneath them, except in this case we won't be turning over hard stoney things, but instead looking at moment to moment arisings in quite a systematic way.

As far as hope or fear are concerned, you could see them as forming the mechanism through which the illusion of a self or doer is maintained. When the illusion is substantially seen through, the momentum of the mechanism doesn't necessarily grind to a halt, but when it's apparent centre has been spotted for the charlatan that it is, there is nothing for it to roll around. As a result hopes and fears may continue to arise, but they are seen for what they are, sooner or later.
Specifically, is there a vessel or bodymind to which the fulfillment of expectation happens?! Now, reflecting on this, I see that it still must be an I / thought and not the vessel that is having the expectation because indeed it is the I thought that gets fulfillment, besides eating actual food the body I don't think cares about whether or not other things happen or not. Although the body needs and craves connection, intimacy, touch. Is this the I that expects or hopes for these things, or the body? It is the I or is it life force moving through that seeks out the fulfillment of needs for the body. Where does seeking of fulfillment of these basic needs and ego needs separate? Sorry, know you are supposed to be asking these questions, but i am asking myself. Ok, now I've got myself confused.
Okay, there is a fair bit of speculative questioning here which we don't need to pursue, as (you have noticed) it confuses matters. I appreciate there is a certain "changing of gears" taking place, and the odd crunch is to be expected.
It was your second sentence that caught my eye though:
Now, reflecting on this, I see that it ... xpectation

You seem to have spotted something crucial here. In the sense that expectations manifest as nothing more than thought forms, and equating "I" with thought suggests that you have spotted the correlation between the illusion of self hiding out as thoughts.

So, I think we can move on.
Keep looking, relax, have fun.

What comes up when it is read that there is absolutely no “you” in any way, shape or form, there never has been a “you”, nor is there or will be there ever be?

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Lucid
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Re: Being at ease ready steady go..am I there yet?

Postby Lucid » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:33 am

What comes up when I read that there is no "you" in any form never has been never will be is yes, I get the concept, I can see how it is true and there are also strong feelings/ thoughts inside of this objecting in clamoring voices with raised hands that of course there is a me! Me is this unique set of circumstances and genes and experiences that is not anything else. I'd like to convince these parts otherwise but they are afraid of dissolution. They want to think that they matter and are afraid that they won't if I keep going this way. There is a sense of splitting but it doesn't feel fragmented like my personality may once have been. It vacillates between battle and debate and restoring to comfort zone is default state. Comfort zone is I am consciousness manifest in this unique contraction for to check this aspect of being out. I wish I could just say I know there is no me. .But truth is this all arises upon careful inspection. Semantics? I know little self is story/ies and big self is consciousness, life moving through. . no me. Big Self equals no self. I feel a seeking of permission to keep connection . Stories. I've been writing my life stories. I always knew I would and now finally just as I've begun this year so has begun the release of ideas of "me", feelings of control or credit. Never has been never will be... no me. Its like killing a child . Childish ideas dying away. There is sadness and anticipation of freedom.

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Dava
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Re: Being at ease ready steady go..am I there yet?

Postby Dava » Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:19 pm

What comes up when I read that there is no "you" in any form never has been never will be is yes, I get the concept, I can see how it is true and there are also strong feelings/ thoughts inside of this objecting in clamoring voices with raised hands that of course there is a me! Me is this unique set of circumstances and genes and experiences that is not anything else. I'd like to convince these parts otherwise but they are afraid of dissolution. They want to think that they matter and are afraid that they won't if I keep going this way. There is a sense of splitting but it doesn't feel fragmented like my personality may once have been. It vacillates between battle and debate and restoring to comfort zone is default state. Comfort zone is I am consciousness manifest in this unique contraction for to check this aspect of being out. I wish I could just say I know there is no me. .But truth is this all arises upon careful inspection. Semantics? I know little self is story/ies and big self is consciousness, life moving through. . no me. Big Self equals no self. I feel a seeking of permission to keep connection . Stories. I've been writing my life stories. I always knew I would and now finally just as I've begun this year so has begun the release of ideas of "me", feelings of control or credit. Never has been never will be... no me. Its like killing a child . Childish ideas dying away. There is sadness and anticipation of freedom.
They have a useful phrase in the Zen tradition for starting the Direct Pointing method we will be doing and that is: 'Burn all books!' which says a lot more than just leaving them aside! No need to actually burn them, just fully dump their content for the duration of this discourse to allow 'Beginners Mind' to manifest. This is crucial.
For example. 'The Law of Attraction' literature which many have inhaled by osmosis, from the alternative culture, has its counter productive sides and has had an insidious effect, accidentally counter to it's intention.
Similarly, the apparently non-dogmatic, all encompassing perspectives offered by the Big Mind / True Self / Consciousness models can all too easily become highjacked by the sense of self, which insidiously stretches itself across such perspectives so as to appear transparent and innocuous. But until the illusion of self is seen through, any model or concept is prone to appropriation.
You can of course return to anything after we are through here.

We need to be dealing with Primary Reality here, and not any kind of secondary reality which is mediated via concepts in any form. Notice how I capitalise Primary Reality and Direct Experience to emphasise their complete centrality throughout this investigation.

So when you reported back on reading that there is no "you" in any form (never has been, never will be) you describe a conflict of some sort, but largely in terms of concepts and ideas.
What is the actual nature of this conflict as you see it arising, before the stories start up?
How does it manifest?
Are there specific sensations you are aware of?
Reflect back on the question again (what comes up), but this time I want you to report from Direct Experience.


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