2nd Time Around - Guidance Please

[Gary]

Hello

Here's the first time - http://www.liberationunleashed.com/nati ... f=4&t=1905

I gave up pretty quickly. Since that time it has become crystal clear that T H E problem is the mind/ego/self, and it looks like I shall be going to study meditation as a monk for a while in Thailand when the loose ends are ted up here - anytime from 6 weeks to 1 year from now.

If there's anyone available to offer guidance I would appreciate it very much.

Respectfully

Gary

[Armstrong]

Great! I can guide you.

It would be good to know what expectations you have. How do you think life will change when you find out you don't have a self?

[Gary]

Great! I can guide you.

Thank you very much.

It would be good to know what expectations you have.

For the past year the ego has been felt as a sort of ever increasing stench. A stench that permeates all of my relationships and everything I think and do. The 'stench of ME', is how it feels.

My expectations are that I will feel a bit lighter, a bit freer of neurotic thoughts (or at least be able to see them for what they are and have more of an ability to not believe them).

How do you think life will change when you find out you don't have a self?

I think it will be more harmonious. Less of a 'struggle'.

Would you like me to write more?

[Gary]

And just to add that figuring out this ego/mind/self/stench is all that interests me now - hence the pull to ordain in Thailand.

[Armstrong]

Would it really be so great if you finished seeking? It might be that you'd not go to Thailand; as there'd be nothing more to find. I'm not saying you need to give that up for me or Liberation Unleashed - but after this process you may be done and you won't have a clear purpose. That's frightening to some people.

OK, so you figure out the ego/mind/self/stench. How nice or perfect do you imagine life will be then? What if life is still normal, and you still have to make money to buy food and pay rent, and you don't even want to jazz it up by being a monk in Thailand?

If you want to continue, my role here is to lead you through some direct pointing exercises. You'll see whatever you see. Some conditions:

1) please confirm that you've read the disclaimer located here http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

2) please confirm that you are OK having me be your guide.

3) say which of these doesn't work for you:

You agree to post at least once a day. If you are busy, just a "still here" let's us know you are still there.

You'll answer questions honestly, based on your senses, not your thinking. Please avoid personal details in your responses. I won't ask personal questions.

Let's try to keep things short, eschewing long answers, analytical answers, wordy answers. It is easier for you, for me and for the others that will read this. We'll get much better feedback from other guides if there's less words for them to wade through when we're done.

Please don't worry that we'll miss things due to the last point. If things are ambiguous or I'm curious, I'll ask more questions.

You agree to put aside your nonduality teachings, meditation teaching and philosophies until we finish - eg videos, articles and books. The point isn't to starve you of intellectual food, but rather ramping up the thinking - which seems to be what consuming media does - doesn't help us to talk about it in a fresh way. If you have a daily meditation practice, you are welcome to keep doing that.

Please look at this and use the quote function. It will make it easier on me and the other guides: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

4) if you have any requests, please let me know

5) let's avoid using names. If I write a message here, it is for you and vice versa.

[Gary]

Would it really be so great if you finished seeking? It might be that you'd not go to Thailand; as there'd be nothing more to find. I'm not saying you need to give that up for me or Liberation Unleashed - but after this process you may be done and you won't have a clear purpose. That's frightening to some people.

I feel it would be an enormous relief if seeking were to finish. If I were picking through garbage (or playing Russian Roulette) to make a living, but there was no internal struggle for 'me' or my situation to be any different, then I can't see any problem. And not having a clear purpose doesn't seem like it would be a problem; it might be very relaxing.

OK, so you figure out the ego/mind/self/stench. How nice or perfect do you imagine life will be then? What if life is still normal, and you still have to make money to buy food and pay rent, and you don't even want to jazz it up by being a monk in Thailand?

Well, I guess life will just carry on as perfect or imperfect and as nice or unpleasant as it ever was, but there will be no 'I' distorting understanding, causing confusion, acting/reacting inappropriately.

[Armstrong]

Sounds great. Do you accept the conditions?

[Gary]

1) please confirm that you've read the disclaimer located here http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Yes.

2) please confirm that you are OK having me be your guide.

Absolutely.

3) say which of these doesn't work for you:

You agree to post at least once a day. If you are busy, just a "still here" let's us know you are still there.

Agreed.

You'll answer questions honestly, based on your senses, not your thinking.

Yes, but I may have a hard time with this one. I am an analytical type. I may need some further guidance with this.

Let's try to keep things short, eschewing long answers, analytical answers, wordy answers. It is easier for you, for me and for the others that will read this. We'll get much better feedback from other guides if there's less words for them to wade through when we're done.

Please don't worry that we'll miss things due to the last point. If things are ambiguous or I'm curious, I'll ask more questions.

You agree to put aside your nonduality teachings, meditation teaching and philosophies until we finish - eg videos, articles and books. The point isn't to starve you of intellectual food, but rather ramping up the thinking - which seems to be what consuming media does - doesn't help us to talk about it in a fresh way. If you have a daily meditation practice, you are welcome to keep doing that.

Agreed.

Thanks again.

[Armstrong]

Great.

About answering based on senses instead of thinking - my role is to get you to stay on point, so I'll do it.

Let's jump in:

If you sit quietly a bit, do you notice any thoughts? Do you volitionally create them? Do you choose their content?

[Gary]

If you sit quietly a bit, do you notice any thoughts?

An endless torrent.

Do you volitionally create them?

No, they just appear.

Do you choose their content?

No, if I did they wouldn't be so repetitive, or suck so much.

[Armstrong]

Do you choose to dislike and critique them? Can you find an entity that's critiquing? Any moments where there's a break in thoughts?

[Armstrong]

Please take your time. We have all the time in the world. :-)

[Gary]

Do you choose to dislike and critique them?

Well, the disliking and critiquing are also thoughts, so apparently not.

Can you find an entity that's critiquing?

No, thoughts just arise, but now aren't I thinking about thinking -in some way? So something is making the thoughts appear. What do you mean by 'entity'?

Any moments where there's a break in thoughts?

Yes, there are.

[Gary]

Please take your time. We have all the time in the world. :-)

Okay, I'll respond again later, unless you reply first.

[Armstrong]

Q:

Can you find an entity that's critiquing?

A:

No, thoughts just arise, but now aren't I thinking about thinking -in some way? So something is making the thoughts appear. What do you mean by 'entity'?

You can't find a "critique-er" in your head that's critiquing. And you just wrote, "Well, the disliking and critiquing are also thoughts, so apparently not." -- so you can't be the critque-er either.

In sum, critiquing is happening (via the stream of thoughts), but you aren't doing it. You aren't thinking the thoughts. And you can't find something else thinking the thoughts for you. They just show up. And they go away sometimes.

Do you believe, "I have a problem with too much thinking?"

1)

So then don't you believe you are the guy whose head is so full of thoughts, he's got a problem? Part of being that guy is thinking thoughts and then thinking, this stream of thoughts is (your words) "An endless torrent."

But