Guide Available

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pozablo
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Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:49 pm

Guide Available

Postby pozablo » Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:19 pm

My name is Pablo, and I would be happy to work with you.

You already know that we begin with some ground rules. Please look these over and, if you agree to all four, just confirm each one separately so in your Reply.

1. Read the Disclaimer at http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

2. You agree to post at least once a day, even if only to say, "still here!" Very important that this process, for as long as it takes, receives high priority in your life. It can’t be something that you just “think about”, or do for some set period per day like a meditation. (Disclaimer: I live in the boonies, and sometimes don’t have internet for a day or two. That would be the only reason you would go two days without hearing from me. Let me know if you have a similar situation.

3. The inquiry we will be doing here is experiential rather than conceptual, and I won’t be “teaching” you anything. This will all go most rapidly if you can, for the time being, put aside previous concepts, philosophies, and reading/listening to teachers or engaging with other practices. If you have some kind of essential meditation you practice, though, you don’t need to stop, but please clearly explain to me what it is and how you do it. We might be able to use it.

4. I’ll be posing questions to you, and sometimes suggesting experiments you might try. Please, actually do try them rather than just think about or imagine trying them. And never answer “off the top of your head”; instead, take some time to observe what is happening before even starting to word your reply. There truly are no wrong answers, just try to respond A] with 100% honesty, and B] from your direct experience rather than concepts or beliefs you may have read/heard/considered or studied in the past. Note: Part B (Direct Experience) may take some practice :-)

Also, here are some suggestions:

1. There is a 'Subscribe topic' box in the blue pane at the bottom of this page - click there and you should get email notifications whenever there’s something new for you.

2. Most people find this site doesn’t provide enough time to compose a Reply in the space provided. It’s possible to press Submit and find you’ve been logged out and have lost everything you wrote. Best to just write your reply elsewhere, then click the Quick Reply button at the bottom of this page and copy and paste your text into the Reply window that will open. Then you can click “Full Editor” and format your message.

3. Please learn to use the “quote” function in the Full Editor. Easy way is to highlight some text in the window, then click the "quote" just above this window. Then you can click Preview to see how it will look. You can do the same for bold, italics, even colors if you want to get really expressive.

4. Here’s the big one. Words are just the tools available here. The thing that is to be Seen here… there are no words for. Or, there are lots of words that have been used over the years, and all mean different things to different people. The paradox is that what is to be Seen cannot be explained, and it cannot be “understood”, with words. Not because it is so deep and mysterious or profound, not at all. The misunderstanding/illusion with which all or most humans are taught since birth, and which is implied by and embedded in our very language and words, now that’s something deep profound, and complicated. And wrong. Many times laughter is the result of “seeing”, because what is seen is how simple the truth is, and how complicated (and loaded with suffering) was the illusion that there is somebody here (or anywhere) making anything happen.
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A certain 'momentum' is useful in this sort of concentrated enquiry. The more focussed you are, the more determination there is you to see this through, the greater are the chances of Seeing happening.
So, just let me know if you agree to the Ground Rules, and we can get started. Please post at least once a day, if you cannot post, or need more time, let me know.

Cheers,
Pablo

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Elene
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Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:39 am

Re: Guide Available

Postby Elene » Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:07 pm

Hello Pablo,
Would like to be guided.

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pozablo
Posts: 420
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:49 pm

Re: Guide Available

Postby pozablo » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:11 pm

Hi Elene,
It's a pleasure.

Please let me know that you have read my first post, and if you agree with all of #s 1-4 above.
And, do you have any questions about the suggestions in that post?

Cheers,
p.

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Elene
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Re: Guide Available

Postby Elene » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:20 pm

Yes, Pablo, agree with everything posted. All is clear. No questions.

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Elene
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Re: Guide Available

Postby Elene » Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:10 pm

Dear Pablo,
Thank you for the opportunity.
I guess I should wright something about my story. So I am in search for several years, somehow guided by life itself, different situations, people, books, videos. First time I had no idea what I was searching for. So it was painful enough trying to understand what everything is going for in this way. Last year I found Advaita, Eckhart Tolle, Shri Papaji and Shri Mooji, attended the silent retreat and met Mooji. Then everything became clearer. There were several moments and even days of “seeing”. Now here is huge tiredness and feeling of end of the journey. It seems like the mind/person has nothing to offer anymore. It’s like standing in front of the gate but postponing because of a lot of very unimportant reasons. No global reasons like fear.
I’m ready to follow the guidance.
Thank you for your time,
Elene

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pozablo
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Re: Guide Available

Postby pozablo » Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:12 pm

Cool Elene.

You wouldn't be here, or gone to those people, if you didn't have some idea of what is to be gained.
Would you please tell me that, or your ideas about it, in some detail?

p.

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Elene
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Re: Guide Available

Postby Elene » Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:59 am

Hi Pablo,
Well I usually I try to use positive formulations but now what should be gained it feels like avoidance, like no more internal conversation, no more disturbance by thoughts. Last months the obsessive thinking about past situation and worries about future are gone. Everything is concentrated in present moment. It feels like the commenter that does not stop talking and this is the only thing that does not let me feel the freshness of the moment and find the peace. And this commenter talks about such a trivial subjects. I mean what should be done concerning business or home obligations. Like someone pulls you up each time when you just want to take a rest.
I don’t know if I express it clearly enough.
Elene

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pozablo
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Re: Guide Available

Postby pozablo » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:53 pm

Hi Elene,

Very clearly explained, thank you.

When doubts and concerns about the past or worries about the future are happening, they are something happening in the present moment, right? But emotion laden mental activities, especially those involving fear and uncertainty, are not only “disturbing”, they tend to take all the mind’s attention so that everything else happening right now is out of conscious awareness.

When concerns about what “I” should do or should have done no longer cause disturbance (because it has been seen clearly and without doubt that there is no I that ever could do or have done anything) these types of mental activities become just something happening in the moment, no more important than anything else. When they are thus no longer disturbing, and no longer resisted, they float in and out---no problem.

We say “It is raining”.
Please consider deeply, then tell me in some detail, what is the “it” that is raining?

Cheers,
p.

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Elene
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Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:39 am

Re: Guide Available

Postby Elene » Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:47 pm

Hi Pablo,
Thank you for comments, it's clear. Hope it will be my experience too.
Good question. "it" basically should me some manager of activity but it does not exist. Activity just happens itself and such kind of sentence is about happening not about doing.

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pozablo
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Re: Guide Available

Postby pozablo » Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:33 pm

Why must the commenter stop?

Why must anything be different from the way it is at any given time?

1. Observe: what happens when something carries the label “unacceptable”?
2. Has anything ever been labelled undesirable in the past, that no longer carries that label? What happened?

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Elene
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:39 am

Re: Guide Available

Postby Elene » Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:24 pm

Why must the commenter stop?
Like the question. I used to think how to make the commenter stop, not why it should stop. Basically because it takes the attention. I feel myself not able to manage the attention, where it goes and how much time it spends there. So why it is important to manage attention? May be because I identify myself with attention? No idea.
Why must anything be different from the way it is at any given time?
I don’t know. Some restlessness. It’s interesting, because years ago it was because of imposed believes and values, because of importance of others opinion etc. I had to achieve something, get results, develop person and career. But now it’s all is gone. I’m alone with myself. Nothing happens outside. All that matters flows inside. No one can observe it. No one can assess it. Only me. So why I’m still restless? I should go deeper here.
1. Observe: what happens when something carries the label “unacceptable”?
Nothing seems to be unacceptable. If there is some dissonance, I usually just ask the question “does it really matter?” and tension passes away. I’m doing it now with the commenter.
2. Has anything ever been labelled undesirable in the past, that no longer carries that label? What happened?
Yes there were several undesirable things in the past. What happened is that when it was too painful and unmanaged I just gave up, surrendered and it passed away. It is hard even to remember this events now.

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pozablo
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Re: Guide Available

Postby pozablo » Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:53 pm

Beautiful honesty!!

Will respond later, maybe as late as tomorrow afternoon.

What time zone are you in? I'm GMT -5, Mexico.

For now:
I should go deeper...I’m doing it now...I just gave up
So a manager does exist?

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Elene
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Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:39 am

Re: Guide Available

Postby Elene » Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:18 am

Hi Pablo
Beautiful honesty!!
The mind takes it into its account and is happy. “I’ve always said I am honest!”
It’s interesting to observe how mind desires recognition. It is never satisfied.
So a manager does exist?
I have experienced that the life situations unfold independently from me. It took a lot of time and pain to realize it. I experience that some kind of thoughts arise themselves without my control. I just find myself thinking them without knowing where they came from. Thoughts also cause different emotions and feelings.

I accept the there is no manager but I have not experienced this yet. I still find that I can decide either continue thinking the thought or not, either feeling the emotion or not. Yes often it goes itself but if I find I do not want it anymore I can stop it at least for a while.

But what this controlling takes the energy. And takes attention. Mind can’t understand how things work and struggles.

I had several days when it seemed like I’ve got it, it was totally clear how things are going, all question were answered or there was even no questions it was such a release. Very beautiful. But I can remember only the feeling. Nothing else.

My time zone is GMT+4.

Have a nice day

Elene

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pozablo
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Re: Guide Available

Postby pozablo » Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:06 pm

Elena,

You say
I accept the there is no manager
But then say things like
I can stop it at least for a while.
I usually just ask the question
What is this I that can stop or control anything, even thoughts, if not a manager???????

This is our one single goal in LU: To explore that deeply ingrained assumption of exactly such an I, and decide whether it actually exists or is a cumbersome anxiety-provoking illusion.
I experience that some kind of thoughts arise themselves without my control.
Some?
Try this, while simply watching very carefully:
Decide what you are going to think next.
p.

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Elene
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Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:39 am

Re: Guide Available

Postby Elene » Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:20 pm

Hi Pablo,
I understand that it’s key point to discover that there is no manager of thoughts but still when I'm watching the thoughts I feel like as can decide what to think about and what will be the next thought. But yes often it happens spontaneously.
Now some irritation comes. Something like why others can see it and I can’t.


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