Looking for a guide

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codyjdennis
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Looking for a guide

Postby codyjdennis » Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:36 pm

Hi,
My name is Cody Dennis, I'm 21 and looking for a guide to point me towards seeing the truth.

A little backstory on me...about a year ago I went to a program called the Journey of Profound Healing which is held by spiritual master/guru Sai Maa. I was not at all very 'spiritual' prior to this but I can say the experience changed my life. The best way I can describe it is maybe an 'energetic' removal of all past pain within four days. A few months after falling back into the same habits of everyday life I had an spontaneous urge to continue on the spiritual path and find the truth of who I am. I read about 20-25 books but I've focused mostly on Eckhart Tolle and Adyashanti (with a slight looking at Mooji, Gangaji, Ramana Maharshi, Jeff Foster etc). To be quite honest I'm pretty tired of searching through some other means outside myself.

Where I'm at now...recently I went back to Colorado to see Sai Maa and it was wonderful seeing her, I can't deny the love she shows everyone is incredible but I couldn't help but think...over and over I've heard we already are what we are looking for so for me it begs the question..what am I and everyone else doing meditating, reading books, listening to tapes, and going to programs/retreats.. It seems so contradictory.

So lately I've really taken a look at my own experience to find this person who is doing all these things and I can't seem to find it. There doesn't seem to be any "I" typing this, reading books, making the art I make, moving, relating to people, or even on this spiritual search. In reality I can't find anyone seeing, hearing, touching, feeling, moving. It all seems to just be happening. In some ways I feel like it's right in front of my face but I don't know if the seeing is total. It seems more conceptual than experiential. Possibly like a last ditch effort to reassert the 'me' that doesn't appear to exist in the first place.

I am willing to look with 100% honesty and set everything I've learned over the past months aside.

Any guide that would help me would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you so much,
Cody
All there is, is liberation. What arises in liberation is the idea that 'I' am not liberated.

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Bill
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Bill » Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:50 pm

Hey Cody,
I think I know how you got here and Im glad you came.
I'd be happy to guide you... let's get a bit of the 'stuff' out of the way first.....

Please take a look at the intro page of LU here,

http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

it contains our disclaimer and please find the short youtube video on 'looking' and watch it too.

http://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c

Its a good one to watch a few times as what it points to is key for this guiding.

Some guidelines that I would like your agreement on:

1) Agree to post daily or near daily, email if you are not able.

2) Please set aside any other spiritual practices during this inquiry. Instead commit at this time, like you would for a meditation practice, to begin looking for this separate self, this "I"; look for what is the experience throughout the day as this looking happens.

3) I will ask questions and you answer.... listen very closely to the answers that arise in you.
Answer to the very best of your ability at that time.

4) If you do agree to the above....please share what your expectations are to see through the illusion of the separate self, and if there are any concerns/fears about that?

If you could confirm you have seen all the above and are in agreement, we can go ahead and get started;
Let's start with this:

Tell me what comes up for you.... thoughts, feelings, perceptions.... when I say that there is no you in the real world? No 'you' thinking your thoughts. No 'you' living your life. Its just an illusion, this 'you' that you think you are and can't be found anywhere in the real world, except as a thought. Something is living your life, but its not 'you'. Look at your reaction to this. What is it?

Bill

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codyjdennis
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby codyjdennis » Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:02 pm

Thank you for being my guide! I really appreciate your time.
Some guidelines that I would like your agreement on:

1) Agree to post daily or near daily, email if you are not able.

2) Please set aside any other spiritual practices during this inquiry. Instead commit at this time, like you would for a meditation practice, to begin looking for this separate self, this "I"; look for what is the experience throughout the day as this looking happens.

3) I will ask questions and you answer.... listen very closely to the answers that arise in you.
Answer to the very best of your ability at that time.

4) If you do agree to the above....please share what your expectations are to see through the illusion of the separate self, and if there are any concerns/fears about that?
I agree to all the above guide lines & watched the video on looking.

4) Expectations: I think one of my expectations I have is when it is realized there isn't a separate "me" there would be a huge relief like I would finally be able to relax. Over the past months, just so I'm up front and honest with you, I have been holding 'enlightenment' or 'awakening' as some massive event that I am expecting to happen but I also imagine seeing through the illusion of the separate self would dissolve any need for that to happen. I think the 'awakening' has been my biggest expectation. From my perspective right now after all this searching I could say it would be great to be more loving, honest, truthful, open with everyone and a quieter mind would be great but in a way if I'm holding any expectations with that now I feel it would be more of a 'byproduct' of not finding a separate self rather something that 'I' am going to do. I guess overall I've thought that in realizing there is no self actually here living this life, the implications of that seeing would be massive. There wouldn't be a need to keep reasserting a story thats not real and it seems all 'my' beliefs about myself and others would be completely on shaky ground.

Not sure if all of that pertains to your question but I thought it would be best to write it out. I don't have many expectations for the process itself or big fears I'm just ready to go.
Tell me what comes up for you.... thoughts, feelings, perceptions.... when I say that there is no you in the real world? No 'you' thinking your thoughts. No 'you' living your life. Its just an illusion, this 'you' that you think you are and can't be found anywhere in the real world, except as a thought. Something is living your life, but its not 'you'. Look at your reaction to this. What is it?
After reading that and letting it in I would say there is a feeling of shock/fear/confusion. The thought that comes up while feeling the shock seem to say "I can definitely see this in some aspects of my life but ALL of it?! There's no ME anywhere?! No Way!!". I do see right now in my direct experience that life doesn't require an 'I' to do this typing at all, it's just happening (and I notice this with many many tasks throughout the day) yet it's shocking to think that absolutely no where has an I ever been real.

Almost as if it just appears that I'm doing the typing but it's just flowing on it's own. I also notice when I read "No 'you' thinking your thoughts" that hits my experience hard. Almost like, yes I can wrap my head around noticing 'I' am not typing, or seeing/hearing/tasting/smelling but those thoughts have got to be mine.

The other side of what I'm feeling is just a relief. I can see if there truly has never ever been an I then nothing I have taken "personally" in the past was personal at all. Nothing would be personal now either, it would just the whatever the experience is, as it is and that feels very relaxing and exciting at the same time.
All there is, is liberation. What arises in liberation is the idea that 'I' am not liberated.

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Bill
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Bill » Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:37 am

Thanks for the background Cody, about the training in Colorado and how it opened you up to looking at this. It sounds like you are very ready for this and have had some great insights already about no one being here and not finding a person doing any of this. This tells me you have been looking already as these are not usually seen without looked for. You mentioned having a large expectation of some big awakening event... probably a 'state' that you would be in from that point forward, never to return to normal daily existence again...
Please try and let go of that as best you can. I can only tell you this will be like nothing you expected and I ask you to do your best to just drop what you think this will be. I'm going to make a separate post following this on what our guides collectively have found 'this' to be not. Please comment on it if you can, with any feelings or reactions to it.

There very often can be fear coming up around this as its looked at... no self.. nothing.. can be a fearful view for a self that's only had its self interest in mind forever.. Please be honest if anything comes up as we go along as we'll want to get it out an look at anything that should arise along this line.

I would suggest as we go along, that you download the "Gateless Gatecrashers" PDF
http://liberationunleashed.com/wp-conte ... ashers.pdf
and read it as a companion to doing this dialog.
It's very helpful as you'll read similar stories to your own and also will see other things
you haven't thought of.
This is really all about you digging to find this... in every nook and cranny you can.
I'll point, but you have to do the looking and work.

Cody, since thoughts are so important, lets take a closer look at your thoughts.
Now I know you've been studying this for awhile and 'know' all the right answers.
Just use what comes up for you in your direct experience to answer these.
There are no right or wrong answers to any of these... just your 100% honest answers
as you are seeing things right now.


1) Can you look carefully and tell me where thoughts arise, for you?
Can you see a point of origin, in reality?

2) Looking at you thoughts, do they all start out with an I attached, or does the I attach to the thought somewhere? In other words, are the thoughts all about you?

3) Try this small exercise. Look at the computer.
Is it more true to say, it is A computer? or it's MY computer?

4) Can you attach a computer to a self? If so, how do we do it?
How do we possess something? What is the process?

Take your time and answer when ready.

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Bill
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Bill » Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:49 am

There are so many urban myths and legends about liberation and waking up... some think a big lightning bolt will come out of the sky and zap them. Others hear that from now on, all their thoughts will be pure and only Love will prevail, to and from everyone. They'll also never get angry anymore either, except maybe at some deep universal injustice. And there will always only be a background of peace and OKness with the universe.

We see these and many other expectations. We've found that these expectation are probably one of the biggest blocks in people's way of simply seeing what's here.
As a group we put together this list of common 'beliefs' that people have about what liberation is and should be. Since its impossible to say what 'this' is in any definitive terms, they are listed as what we've found this is not.

This is not about convincing you of anything.
This is not a self improvement program.
This is not about gaining a particular bit of knowledge.
This is not about having a certain thought or sequence of thoughts
This is not about stopping thoughts, changing thoughts, or getting rid of thoughts.
This is not a trick of the mind, or twisting the mind into believing certain thoughts.
This is not about cultivating an altered state of consciousness.
This is not a belief, religion, or a philosophy, nor is it magical or mystical.
This is not about gaining something extra, becoming something special.
This is not something that will lead to accumulation of money or things.
This is not about becoming a holy, good, moral or better person.
This is not going to lead you to eternal peace and happiness, it is not about happiness.
This is not a way to get free of depression or other diseases.
This is not about freedom from emotions and intense feelings.
This is not a way to escape your daily life.
This is not a way to make the story of you disappear.
This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I

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codyjdennis
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby codyjdennis » Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:45 am

I can definitely do my best to drop that expectation. It hasn't worked thus far to hold on to it, in fact it always directs my attention to a future moment that doesn't exist and distracts me from direct experience. So for our conversation I'll try to only refer to my present experience.

I have some time tonight so I'll take a look at the questions and respond.
Can you look carefully and tell me where thoughts arise, for you?
Can you see a point of origin, in reality?
When thoughts arise in my experience now it feels like they are arising inside my head in some location. I can't find an area where I could say "That's it! with 100% certainty. If looked at closer it appears like they arise out of nothing or any empty space and then go back into it. Only one thought can happen at a time and to be completely honest if I look for the previous thought and it's origin it's suspiciously no where to be found...unless it's thought again in which it's a new thought.

If I am referring to physical reality the thoughts cannot really be sensed and the point of origin seems to just arise out of nowhere, somewhere in the head region. The object "phone" has more reality than a thought about it.
Looking at your thoughts, do they all start out with an I attached, or does the I attach to the thought somewhere? In other words, are the thoughts all about you?
No. There are many thoughts that start out with an I like "I need to go to the bathroom" or "I am thirsty" but there are also other thoughts without an I that said "It's dark in here". In those kind of thoughts that do not have an I it feels like it is attaching to it after it is thought. Taking responsibility for the previous thought.
Try this small exercise. Look at the computer.
Is it more true to say, it is A computer? or it's MY computer?
It is so much truer to say it is A computer.
Can you attach a computer to a self? If so, how do we do it?
How do we possess something? What is the process?
No, you can't attach a computer to a self. In direct experience the computer just IS, whether there is a statement "This is my computer" or "This is a computer" makes no difference to the physical object in my experience but the feeling in the body is totally different when an "I" is attached. Like a stranglehold is placed in the heart area needing to protect my possession at all cost.

Using something in my own experience it seems the way it happens is:

There is a desk in front of me, a computer, phone, pens & pencils, tablet for art, incense. If looked at carefully and directly these objects are just there...almost neutral prior to any thoughts. Then a thought swoops in after and labels it My computer, my desk, MY area, MY phone. I would say that this would apply to everything. My body, my thoughts, my emotions. It seems like a very swift and subtle process that is taken to be very real.


Also just to add a little more...

I was inquiring about all this at work today and I noticed a few things that I wrote own that I'd thought I'd share.

- No physical object is what the thought say's it is. The object "phone" is just an object in reality that we label phone but could very well be called anything else if we decided to.
- Every object just IS including the body, breathing, senses, other people and are completely fine prior to thoughts.
All there is, is liberation. What arises in liberation is the idea that 'I' am not liberated.

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codyjdennis
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby codyjdennis » Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:06 am

I'll definitely give the book a download! Thanks!
There are so many urban myths and legends about liberation and waking up... some think a big lightning bolt will come out of the sky and zap them. Others hear that from now on, all their thoughts will be pure and only Love will prevail, to and from everyone. They'll also never get angry anymore either, except maybe at some deep universal injustice. And there will always only be a background of peace and OKness with the universe.

We see these and many other expectations. We've found that these expectation are probably one of the biggest blocks in people's way of simply seeing what's here.
As a group we put together this list of common 'beliefs' that people have about what liberation is and should be. Since its impossible to say what 'this' is in any definitive terms, they are listed as what we've found this is not.

This is not about convincing you of anything.
This is not a self improvement program.
This is not about gaining a particular bit of knowledge.
This is not about having a certain thought or sequence of thoughts
This is not about stopping thoughts, changing thoughts, or getting rid of thoughts.
This is not a trick of the mind, or twisting the mind into believing certain thoughts.
This is not about cultivating an altered state of consciousness.
This is not a belief, religion, or a philosophy, nor is it magical or mystical.
This is not about gaining something extra, becoming something special.
This is not something that will lead to accumulation of money or things.
This is not about becoming a holy, good, moral or better person.
This is not going to lead you to eternal peace and happiness, it is not about happiness.
This is not a way to get free of depression or other diseases.
This is not about freedom from emotions and intense feelings.
This is not a way to escape your daily life.
This is not a way to make the story of you disappear.
This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I
I definitely agree with everything stated.

If there is anything I have seen in my months following Colorado is so many things come and go. Pretty much everything. Trying to find a permanent 'state' seems to be a time waster (even though my thoughts have lead me along with the awakening thing. That's pretty much the last bit I have been hooked on). I've found being "special", "mystical" or "knowing" something other people don't leads to an amazing amount of arrogance. There tends to be a throwing of it in peoples face.

Something that has happened to me is my thoughts have slowed down substantially by taking attention away from them. Kind of letting them come and go sometimes. So it's easier for me during this to look at my experience but I feel like why I came to LU is even when it was quiet I sensed there was a small "I" behind it that's taken to be real and I don't see much freedom trying so hard to quiet a mind when I don't even know if the 'I' who is trying to quiet it is real!

Overall I just want to know the truth for what it is and just drop all the extra baggage. It's been a heavy load.
All there is, is liberation. What arises in liberation is the idea that 'I' am not liberated.

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codyjdennis
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby codyjdennis » Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:45 am

Just had this realization I thought I'd share.

If I was the one who had control over emotions and thoughts wouldn't I have just been able to shut of the mind on command or shut off intense emotions if I wanted to and just be present?

Found that kind on intriguing.

Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to be my guide it is greatly appreciated.
All there is, is liberation. What arises in liberation is the idea that 'I' am not liberated.

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Bill
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Bill » Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:49 pm

I was inquiring about all this at work today and I noticed a few things that I wrote own that I'd thought I'd share.

- No physical object is what the thought say's it is. The object "phone" is just an object in reality that we label phone but could very well be called anything else if we decided to.
- Every object just IS including the body, breathing, senses, other people and are completely fine prior to thoughts.

If I was the one who had control over emotions and thoughts wouldn't I have just been able to shut of the mind on command or shut off intense emotions if I wanted to and just be present?
Yes.. great looking here at what's going on..
Something that has happened to me is my thoughts have slowed down substantially by taking attention away from them. Kind of letting them come and go sometimes. So it's easier for me during this to look at my experience but I feel like why I came to LU is even when it was quiet I sensed there was a small "I" behind it that's taken to be real and I don't see much freedom trying so hard to quiet a mind when I don't even know if the 'I' who is trying to quiet it is real!
This quieting of thoughts may happen... but this has nothing to do with thoughts becoming quieter or going away. Its more of the nature of seeing thought for what it is.



So Cody, So looking at thoughts, we can't really find an origin point.
It appears we are thinking them, but are we?
Do you know what your next thought will be? For real. not a contrived situation.
How about sometimes some very strange thoughts come in... where did they come from? You chose them?
If we were in control, wouldn't we only have 'nice' thoughts?

Can you stop your thoughts from arising?
Yes sure, there is this seeming control.
But is it true?
Is is really true?
Are you really in control of your thoughts?
Check for yourself.

We look at the nature of thoughts and see, just like your first reaction
that they are almost always possessive in nature, about me, mine or I
in some shape or form.

Thoughts arise, labels are put on the thoughts and we have ownership.
Ownership is just another thought.
And ownership, or possession is really not possible without a thought.
We have believed all along that this 'I' is a real thing. But we're going to find that its
only a thought we've been led to believe since we were about two years old. We can
look really hard but not find this 'I' in reality, only a thought about it.

Do you see how literally all thoughts are stories?
We see, a label is put on what we see, and a story is developed.
Every thought is essentially past or future tense in its nature.
Describing something that has happenend in the past, or might happen in the future.
The only thing that is real is what is happening right now and here.

We need a willingness to see prior to labels being put on what we see.
We only need a very short amount of this 'pure' perception or SEEING
to see that I is truly illusory in nature.

Now how about the body? Is that owned and controlled in reality, by a self?

Now lets look at it and see if there is an owner or entity controlling it.
Lift one of your hands. either one.
Move it to the right. Now move it left. Look with your eyes what is happening. Did a self move the hand?
Or did the hand just move?
Direct observation. Move it again. Check it.
Which is more true, the hand moved, or a self moved the hand?


Just let this in for today:

Well its a very simple thing that needs to be resolved...
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought
And you see that thought itself does not think
It clicks!
Its very very simple.

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codyjdennis
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby codyjdennis » Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:00 pm

Going to take a good look a these today and respond later but the first thing that came up when I read...
Can you stop your thoughts from arising?
Yes sure, there is this seeming control.
But is it true?
Is is really true?
Are you really in control of your thoughts?
Check for yourself.
was that no I cannot stop my thoughts from arising. In fact I don't even know what thought will be next. As for control, a simple thing I took a look at in my experience is reading this post. Am I even in control of reading the words or is reading just happening. Am I really controlling the process of making the words on the screen thoughts? I can't find this person who claims he is reading any control in that process it just happens all by itself. Only another thought claims it.

I also noticed this morning that if I say "sweater" out loud (even though that doesn't even really describe the object in perception) at least it POINTS to a real object in this moment now. When we say "I", "me", "mine", "myself" etc...you can't actually find anything it points to other than back to itself. So thought is pointing back to thought...and you can't ever find the thought. There is no "I" in this moment right now. There is a body and the senses but there is no actual object "I" that can be found. When I state "This is my body" as if I posses it. If I look for the MY in that sentence it can't be found outside of thought. It's just another thought. It's more true to say "This is A body". An "I" does not own it.
All there is, is liberation. What arises in liberation is the idea that 'I' am not liberated.

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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby codyjdennis » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:05 pm

I don't have the quote function on my phone so sorry if it's a little hard to read. I wrote this at my work.


I apologize if this is a lot of writing. I figure the more I share and the more honest I am the better you can ask me questions and point.

Today's Observations...

- Personality is not chosen. It just is the way it is. "I" did not choose to have this voice sound this particular way. I do not choose to walk a certain way. The way I walk, talk is not chosen by me. I also couldn't of chosen or have control over having brown hair, hazel eyes, this particular face shape or body structure. How can this be owned if it wasn't even chosen by "me". All of this just is. How could I be the body knowing this?

- I notice what ends up coming out of this mouth just sort of flows out spontaneously. It only appears that "I" am saying things but it doesn't seem to be true in reality. It is labeled afterward that I did it. But in the moment speaking it is just happening.

- Listening to music this morning. What makes me like one song over another? It just seems like a natural choice but I cannot say for 100% certainty that I am choosing to like or dislike anything. Thought has nothing to do with liking or disliking a song.

- Choosing what to wear. What makes a certain outfit be chosen over another. Seems more like a automatic decision and it's just grabbed for some reason and liked enough to wear. But all this happens without thought about it.

- It seems like life just happens and things are chosen but when the I thought is believed there is a resistance to the choices as if they shouldn't of happened, even though they are or did happen. Appears to just be more thought and stories that aren't reality.

- When I say..."This is MY job, MY school, MY family, MY friends...is any of this really true? How could I own any of these things. How are they MINE exclusively? A job, school, and family etc does happen but is there any real possession over them? Doesn't seem so.

- If looked at closely if I take attention into the body although it appears that I chose it. Attention is going there own it's own. Attention is held there or not on it's own. Same with remembering. I do not do remembering. Remembering happens.

- I cannot accurately describe reality (this moment) with any word or accuracy. It would all be describing something in the past or in the future. Reality is in constant motion so you can never grasp it.

- The pain in my back in reality is not my pain. The pain itself is there but like everything else no I is there owning the pain. It's just described as my pain if speaking to another person.

- The most I could say about myself in direct experience is "existence". Saying "I exist" is too much. I can't really describe what's here besides a knowing and that it's alive and very functional all in it's own. There is then nothing doing the looking etc. Life is looking at life with no effort. No thought. It's nothing "special" "mystical" or even "spiritual" for that matter. It's very ordinary and it has always been this way even when thoughts are believed.

I'm not sure this is relevant to ask you since we are trying to look in direct experience. But if I was living my whole life believing this I was real and the whole time there wasn't an I doing anything ever like I am finding now how did telling other people "my story" work? Was that kind of "life is terrible story" necessary to get this "individual" here or did that also just happen on it's own. Or maybe reality was always reality and then I believed the story so I suffered? But then who suffered? If there has never been a self who would of been the one suffering or angry or anything? Was stress happening but there was never actually a person here stressed out. It's just stress?

From this perspective right now where I keep not finding an I just kind of an alive open space is it more accurate to say maybe life itself wanted to experience what "I" have been through as a separate self and now it wants to wake up to reality..to no self? Cause I haven't found a chooser in anything so far.

---------------------------
As for your questions

Did a self move the hand?

No. There was no thought present during this time and the hand still moved in any direction. Therefore no self or entity is responsible for moving the hand.

What is more true? The hand moved or a self moved the hand?

The hand moved.

Once you see that thought cannot think...it clicks.

Hahaha. I burst out laughing. I can only find the I as a thought and thought obviously cannot think. So how could "I" be controlling the thoughts? Haha.
All there is, is liberation. What arises in liberation is the idea that 'I' am not liberated.

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Bill
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Bill » Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:20 am

Cody I can see you're really looking.
It seems to be spontaneous, and that is what happens with some people.. as things are questioned and really looked at, the whole shooting match starts opening up and is available to be questioned.
Your observations on 'free will', choice and possession are beautiful.

I forgot to tell you... when you ask questions here, you get to be the one who answers them. :)
I'm not sure this is relevant to ask you since we are trying to look in direct experience. But if I was living my whole life believing this I was real and the whole time there wasn't an I doing anything ever like I am finding now how did telling other people "my story" work? Was that kind of "life is terrible story" necessary to get this "individual" here or did that also just happen on it's own. Or maybe reality was always reality and then I believed the story so I suffered? But then who suffered?
What do you think about this? How would you answer?
If there has never been a self who would of been the one suffering or angry or anything? Was stress happening but there was never actually a person here stressed out. It's just stress?
Who was suffering?

I'm going to give you a few exercises to do... please tell me where you feel any stuckness or confusion in any of this.
You seem to be guiding yourself which I find very refreshing.
We do tell people that really no guide is needed if a person is honest with themself and can just LOOK.

------------------------------------------
What is happening in this moment? With your five senses, what do you experience? Sights, sounds, tastes, smells, tactile sensations, even thoughts. Just list what there is going on, don’t draw conclusions.

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Notice the sounds you’re hearing, like the chirping of the birds. Notice the habitual thought “I hear that.” Now just pay attention to how sound happens. Take your time with it. Are you doing the hearing, or is it just happening?

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As you go about your day today and move around, see if you can find that there is a self moving things around.
Look for this I.
As you talk, walk, drive, eat, type, check it out.
Is there a self living your life?
Or are there just thoughts about everything, including a self, seeming to live your life?
You don't have to decide or believe anything at all, just look at whats true for you.
In all that you are doing today, just keep looking at this. keep the focus on this.
Keep looking to see if there is something real, besides a thought, that owns and directs the body.

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codyjdennis
Posts: 416
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:58 pm

Re: Looking for a guide

Postby codyjdennis » Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:08 am

I'm going to answer a few questions tonight before I go to bed and work on others tomorrow throughout the day and get back to you.
You seem to be guiding yourself which I find very refreshing.
We do tell people that really no guide is needed if a person is honest with themself and can just LOOK.
Yeah. I've actually been looking and questioning on and off for a little while bit prior to coming to LU but it is great having a guide posing questions which I can follow through on and really look.
I'm not sure this is relevant to ask you since we are trying to look in direct experience. But if I was living my whole life believing this I was real and the whole time there wasn't an I doing anything ever like I am finding now how did telling other people "my story" work? Was that kind of "life is terrible story" necessary to get this "individual" here or did that also just happen on it's own. Or maybe reality was always reality and then I believed the story so I suffered? But then who suffered?
What do you think about this? How would you answer?
I feel like this is a kind of question that can be looked at heavily in the mind and just go nuts because the mind is trying to apply 'no-self' into these scenarios. I don't think it truly understands no-self.

But...the best I can come up with is...

Basing it off a knowing that there is only ever right now. This moment. This experience and there is no self in this experience...I know if you think back to any particular moment it's magically gone. Even the experience of hanging out with my friend tonight. Where is it now? It's gone. You cannot find it except in your thoughts and the minute that experience is over the mind twists it all up and remembers pieces thats it.

Looking back with this in mind I can't say any choices could have been 'mine'. In some ways it appears that we have choice in serious situations but its funny if you take a situation like maybe someone dieing in a family..maybe an extreme example but usually people get very sad. From an outsiders perspective you could say "Do you HAVE to be sad". Obviously there are other choices but yet we are still sad. So the question is..do we choose to feel a certain way or does it just arise? I've always felt like again obviously there are an infinite number of choices but why in that moment do we not see those choices?

I guess it's kind of paradoxical to me. I notice in my experience there is "something" just here. It has never changed. Some call it perfect or pure. It can't really be defined. Anyway it seems more like this "pure space" is maybe trying to experience growth. Non perfection. Lying. Pain. Suffering...the works. It wants growth. Not every moment is pain otherwise life would be terrible but you cannot experience or know growth without mistakes or the opposite of what we call "good" (And honestly life would kind of suck if it was 'perfect' all the time like we say in our heads not wanting the polar opposite of "good" to come). So you have something that doesn't change at all along with a constantly changing "person". That's why I say it feels like life wanted to experience being unconscious and is now is having an urge to become aware of itself.

And again maybe the paradox is that pain, sadness, hurt doesn't go away the difference is you realize there isn't actually this SOMEONE suffering or Stressed...And it never was the case..All it is, is another experience. So it feels like in seeing through the 'I' you would not get rid of the hurt or pain but just see it's just an experience like we dream at night.

- And lastly it's strange to me that growth appears to be happening...but there is only right now. I can't find any of those situations that I've been through in my life other than in my mind and even our conversation from yesterday can be seen on the computer but only right Now. If I'm not on LU it's magically gone if I'm talking about my own experience.
All there is, is liberation. What arises in liberation is the idea that 'I' am not liberated.

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codyjdennis
Posts: 416
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:58 pm

Re: Looking for a guide

Postby codyjdennis » Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:14 am

Also just to add. I notice thoughts LOVE excuses and it manipulates things constantly. I've had the thought before "how would you function with no self" but all those kinds of ploys seem like thoughts effort to drag attention away from what's here and the fact that things are already taking place on their own. So it's an empty lie, or a bunch of empty lies that come up to get your attention.
All there is, is liberation. What arises in liberation is the idea that 'I' am not liberated.

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Bill
Posts: 1353
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:08 am
Location: Pacific NW, USA

Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Bill » Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:42 pm

Hi Cody
great work!
just wanted to comment on this on part....
I guess it's kind of paradoxical to me. I notice in my experience there is "something" just here. It has never changed. Some call it perfect or pure. It can't really be defined. Anyway it seems more like this "pure space" is maybe trying to experience growth. Non perfection. Lying. Pain. Suffering...the works. It wants growth. Not every moment is pain otherwise life would be terrible but you cannot experience or know growth without mistakes or the opposite of what we call "good" (And honestly life would kind of suck if it was 'perfect' all the time like we say in our heads not wanting the polar opposite of "good" to come). So you have something that doesn't change at all along with a constantly changing "person". That's why I say it feels like life wanted to experience being unconscious and is now is having an urge to become aware of itself.
"Something just here"
"Pure Space maybe trying to experience growth...."
"It wants growth"

Take a look here at these... can you find anything concrete to point to?
Are these real, or just concepts the mind has made up to to describe something?


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