Looking for a guide

[jido]

I have been practicing zen meditation for 20 years and am interested in the method that is being used to probe the question, '"who am I?" It may be helpful for me if I had a guide that is familiar with Zen practice.

[Josephkoudelka]

Hi jido. I will guide you.

I practiced zen for more than twenty years. What school are you from? Rinzai, Soto, Sanbo Kyodan?

Also, it would be good to know what expectations you have? How do you think life will change when no self is clearly seen?

Best,

Joseph

[jido]

Hi Joseph,
Thanks for your willingness to be a guide. I am a student in the Korean Chogye School of Zen as taught through the lineage of Zen Master Seung Sahn and the Kwan Um School of Zen. It utilizes koans much like the Rinzai School of Zen as a method to bring students to experience for themselves the insights found in Buddhist teachings beginning with the illusion of a being a separate, permanent, and independent self and to live in the present moment in a way that benefits all beings.
I am looking to you to guide me through the process and method of inquiry used by Liberation Unleashed that appears from testimonials to have helped many individuals to experience the illusion of the sense of I, me, my that most of us have created since childhood.
Thanking you in advance,
Greg

[Josephkoudelka]

I am looking to you to guide me through the process and method of inquiry used by Liberation Unleashed that appears from testimonials to have helped many individuals to experience the illusion of the sense of I, me, my that most of us have created since childhood.

Each of the guides has their own style. The lynch pin holding together the illusion of a separate self is only a series of thoughts. I like to get to the heart of this as soon as possible. After the initial introduction, I prefer not to use our names during the guiding process. Names are a foundational support of the *me* entity.

I too practiced with koan, having passed several hundred. Koan were fun. It was only through rigorous self-enquiry though, that I broke completely through the myth of self.

We can begin once you acknowledge that you have read, viewed, and understand the following:

Our disclaimer and short video -
http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/
http://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c

-You agree to post at least once a day, even if only to say, "still here!"

-I am not your teacher, all I can do is point, you look, until clear seeing happens.

-In general, I will ask questions, you look deeply and honestly, and respond.

-Responses require simple, uncontrived honest looking. There are no wrong or right answers.

-Responses are best from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers, and stream of consciousness answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.

-Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention into seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.

-Please learn to use the quote function; See this link - http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

Best,
Joseph

[jido]

Please learn to use the quote function;

I have watched the video, read the disclaimer, agree to the terms and know how to use the quote function and am now ready to start and will not use name as identification.

[Josephkoudelka]

Cool.

So a monk walked into the Buddha bar and asked the bartender, "does a dog have buddha nature or not?" The bartender responded, "NO." The monk began to protest but the bartender cut him off, "NO!" With this, the monk shook out his sleeves, made a prostration to the bartender, and then, briskly left the premises.

Did the monk get IT or not?

The truth is there is nothing to get. Realizing no self is already apparent during the three times. When we look directly into our experience a self can never be found. Neither can a doer. The only thing that separates us from this fact is a series of thoughts that have remained unquestioned, and are therefore believed.

A quick definition for *Direct Experience* - the actual description of sensory data as experienced, excluding all stories about the data. Examples would include, "hearing a sharp crack! and feeling a sharp sting at across top of latisimus dorsi to left side neck." To add "my neck" or "from the kyosaku" would be a story. The only latissimus dorsi you will ever feel has to be the one attached to your body, not another body... and you never actually saw the kyosaku, since your body was facing the wall, or away from the Tanto, administering the stick.

Let us begin. Does one thought know another thought in direct experience?

[jido]

[Does one thought know another thought in direct experience?]

To say no is a thought to say yes is a thought. First a thought arises, then a thought arises, then a thought arises, etc. First there is Spring then there is Summer

[Josephkoudelka]

To say no is a thought to say yes is a thought.

Yes. You can go as far as every word is a thought. But we do know objects of conscioussnes, including thoughts, or this apparent exchange would not be occurring.

The direction I take when guiding is to look closely at knowledge and awareness. I use a method of self enquiry that involves the use of the intellect to discriminate between the seer and the seen.

When we look, we know a thought when it occurs. Does a thought know anything? Is a thought aware of another thought? Does a thought know you, the aware-er? Has a thought ever arisen without you knowing it?

[jido]

1. Does a thought know anything? 2. Is a thought aware of another thought?3. Does a thought know you, the aware-er? 34. Has a thought ever arisen without you knowing it?

!. Does a thought know anything? No. Thoughts are just thoughts, objects of awareness.
2. Is a thought ever aware of another thought? No, a thought about a previous thought often arises as part of a stream of thoughts but itself is not the source of awareness.
4. Has a thought ever arisen without you knowing it? No, thoughts can't exist with awareness being present.

[jido]

3.Does a thought know you? No, Thoughts are not aware of the source of awareness.

[Josephkoudelka]

Look at your experience now. Describe where you begin and end in direct experience.

[jido]

Describe where you begin and end in direct experience.

In direct experience there is no I beginning and ending. There is only experiencing and the content of experiencing which does appear to begin and end. Thoughts, sensations, feelings, impulses begin and end, but no I that begins and ends,

[Josephkoudelka]

who knows direct experience?

[jido]

who knows direct experience?

There is no who that knows separate from knowing and known. There is only direct experience.

[Josephkoudelka]

Is there a thinker of thoughts in direct experience?