I am seeking a Guide please.

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jennifer_c
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I am seeking a Guide please.

Postby jennifer_c » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:07 pm

I was referred here by a good friend and am seeking a guide.

I have had an interest in waking up for about 25 years. I have experienced no self and being the non doer, but they are quickly fleeting experiences and I don’t feel that I have deeply settled into the knowing and being of that. I have experienced Ramana Maharshi’s teachings, as well as many years in the Byron Katie work of self inquiry, this path feels very in alignment for me. I want to know the truth. I want to be free. I still experience a lot of anxiety and intense fear in myself. Fear of death, not being safe, fear of my loved ones dying, not being in control. These core identities are still very much alive for me despite the freedom that I have experienced in other areas of my life and mind. My external life feels pretty perfect to me, but my internal fear keeps me from experiencing my wonderful life and surrendering to and trusting what is. Much of my childhood was spent in fear of my mother dying who was terminally ill for many years, in some ways I feel that my neuro system got stuck in that fear pattern, and I don’t know how to get out of that and let go of this fear and anxiety. The tools of self inquiry I use do help me, but I am looking to go deeper.

I feel ready for this inquiry and am excited to get started.

thank you.

Jennifer C

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Josephkoudelka
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Re: I am seeking a Guide please.

Postby Josephkoudelka » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:49 pm

Hello jennifer_c. Glad to see you here. I am happy to guide you.

Please tell me a bit regarding any expectations you might have regarding seeing through the illusion of a separate self.

Warmly,

Joseph

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jennifer_c
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Re: I am seeking a Guide please.

Postby jennifer_c » Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:07 pm

Hi Joseph,

My expectations are that by seeing through the illusion of a separate self, that I will feel more freedom, more connected to life, less fearful, less worry, more surrendered and in the flow of life. I would love for my awareness to rest in this knowing and comfort of no self, rather than where it often fixates on things like fear, not feeling safe, and protection of myself. I want to release worry and fear, and instead feel safe, free, and surrendered.

My expectations are that I can become aware of this. My fear is that this awareness will not stay with me as it has in the past, that it will remain a fleeting experience rather than becoming a way of being. I want to experience a ground of being that I can depend on, that stays with me, or that I can return to if I get lost again and start believing in the "I" again.

Jennifer

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Josephkoudelka
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Re: I am seeking a Guide please.

Postby Josephkoudelka » Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:30 pm

My expectations are that I can become aware of this. My fear is that this awareness will not stay with me as it has in the past, that it will remain a fleeting experience rather than becoming a way of being. I want to experience a ground of being that I can depend on, that stays with me, or that I can return to if I get lost again and start believing in the "I" again.
These are reasonable expectations. One can never fall out of awareness. Only the mind thinks so. We can address that. As for the thought patterns that you feel are negative and wish to be rid of, I can make no promises. However, when no self is recognized, that recognition can be returned to endlessly. It is fact and can never disappear, like awareness cannot disappear. It is my experience that the repeated recognition of no self and no doer unites all knots. But I must again offer a disclaimer that your mileage may vary. :)

If you haven't already seen it, there is intro info here, our disclaimer and a short video too.
http://www.liberationunleashed.com/
If you could confirm you have seen all the above and would like me to be your guide - then we
shall begin.

Also acknowledge the guidlines for our work together:

-You agree to post at least once a day, even if only to say, "still here!"

-I am not your teacher, all I can do is point, you look, until clear seeing happens.

-In general, I will ask questions, you look deeply and honestly, and respond.

-Responses require simple, uncontrived honest looking. There are no wrong or right answers.

-Responses are best from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers, and stream of consciousness answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.

-Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention into seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.

-Please learn to use the quote function; See this link - http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

thanks -joseph

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jennifer_c
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Re: I am seeking a Guide please.

Postby jennifer_c » Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:13 am

Hi Joseph, yes, all of this sounds great. I do agree to all the things you mentioned and have reviewed the info you mentioned. I would love for you to guide me, I am grateful. Thank you.

Jennifer

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Josephkoudelka
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Re: I am seeking a Guide please.

Postby Josephkoudelka » Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:34 am

Wonderful. Let's get started.

Do you know a thought or does a thought know you?

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jennifer_c
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Re: I am seeking a Guide please.

Postby jennifer_c » Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:41 pm

Do you know a thought or does a thought know you?
When I first read this question, I feel confused, I even thought about asking you to ask the question differently, that maybe I don’t understand the question. Do I know a thought or does a thought know me….is this the same question as….. Am I thinking, or am I being thought? I will answer from this question, but if I am misunderstanding the question please let me know.

I notice when I wake up in the morning, that thoughts start coming automatically, I am not thinking them, they are coming through me like it or not. I am being thought. And now as I contemplate this question you asked, I think this part I am thinking because I am intentionally thinking about this question, so therefore I am thinking, but this morning when I woke up and the thoughts started coming, I don’t think I was thinking then. This morning felt like the thoughts were just happening on their own, I did notice that I try to control them, or track them, or follow them, I feel engaged with them, and sometimes I notice I resist them and want them to stop. I try to focus on my breathing instead of following the thoughts, but this doesn’t work for long.

Right now, as I am contemplating this question, I think that I am thinking these thoughts. Back to your question as you wrote it, do I know a thought? I can’t seem to find one that feels solid, it feels like vapor….it’s gone when I look for it. It feels transparent, like there is not a location to it. I still feel confused by the question Do I know a thought or does a thought know me? It feels like a mental koan that there is no answer to, that I can’t find an entry into. Can you ask me the question in a different way or let me know if you are asking the same thing as Am I thinking or am I being thought?

Thanks!
Jen

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Josephkoudelka
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Re: I am seeking a Guide please.

Postby Josephkoudelka » Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:16 pm

I still feel confused by the question Do I know a thought or does a thought know me?
That is ok. We are off to a good start. It is a straight forward question. I will ask it another way that might make it clearer. Are you aware of a thought, or is a thought aware of you?

We are separating the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.

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jennifer_c
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Re: I am seeking a Guide please.

Postby jennifer_c » Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:26 pm

Are you aware of a thought, or is a thought aware of you?
Yes, that question is more clear for me, thank you.

I am aware of thought. Thought is not aware of me.

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Josephkoudelka
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Re: I am seeking a Guide please.

Postby Josephkoudelka » Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:47 pm

I am aware of thought. Thought is not aware of me.
So who is it that can claim you are a self?

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jennifer_c
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Re: I am seeking a Guide please.

Postby jennifer_c » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:55 pm

So who is it that can claim you are a self?
Me, I can. The one who is aware of thought, who is aware of typing this right now. Who is that? Me, that is me, but who is me? It seems elusive when I try to pin it down and find it. Something feels uncomfortable about looking, something feels threatened by the idea that there may be no one there. It wants to exist, but when I look for it’s existence, there are only illusive thoughts found. Trying to find proof, trying to find who it is that believes it exists. Who is it that claims I am a self? Me, I do. When I look deeper, I find thoughts and feelings.

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Josephkoudelka
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Re: I am seeking a Guide please.

Postby Josephkoudelka » Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:21 pm

I am aware of thought. Thought is not aware of me.
followed by
The one who is aware of thought, who is aware of typing this right now. Who is that?
1. Can awareness say anything?

2. Is one thought aware of another thought?

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jennifer_c
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Re: I am seeking a Guide please.

Postby jennifer_c » Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:24 am

1. Can awareness say anything?
I noticed a lot of discomfort and resistance coming up. I feel very uncomfortable. I am wondering if you can speak to this in this process? I will do my best to answer the question. I think awareness just “is” and then I speak about awareness through my thoughts and words and the body.
2. Is one thought aware of another thought?
No. I think awareness is aware of a thought, but thought is not aware of another thought.

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Josephkoudelka
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Re: I am seeking a Guide please.

Postby Josephkoudelka » Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:11 am

I noticed a lot of discomfort and resistance coming up. I feel very uncomfortable. I am wondering if you can speak to this in this process?
I prefer that we not analyze the process at this time. Awareness is. The story of a separate self is reinforced by too much analysis. If there is discomfort and resistance arising, the process is working.
No. I think awareness is aware of a thought, but thought is not aware of another thought.
Yes. One thought does not know, nor is it aware of a another thought.

Now think about your self and how you know your self as a separate and unique individual. Can you be anything, even awareness, without a thought claiming it so?

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jennifer_c
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Re: I am seeking a Guide please.

Postby jennifer_c » Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:30 am

If there is discomfort and resistance arising, the process is working.
Ok, this is helpful to know.
Now think about your self and how you know your self as a separate and unique individual. Can you be anything, even awareness, without a thought claiming it so?
This feels like a real mind bender for me. I have had to go back and read the question like 30 times, as I sit in it, I forget the question and have to return to my computer to read it again. I feel something in me resisting and squirming around this, I feel confused. On my afternoon walk, the question changed to can I know anything exists without the thought about it, or do I exist without the thought that I exist? I think this is a similar question you are asking. As I was walking and could no longer see my house, I contemplated, does my house exist when I am not thinking about it and can not see it? I see how when I think about/ label something that that brings it into existence. I would like to contemplate this overnight and will answer more tomorrow on my experience of this question.


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