cosmic joke

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eknath
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cosmic joke

Postby eknath » Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:24 am

i need the stick, who is going to slap me?

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Xain
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Re: cosmic joke

Postby Xain » Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:45 pm

Whack!

Is that better?

Xain ♥

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eknath
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Re: cosmic jokec

Postby eknath » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:25 am

yes haha! that awakens

r u willing to guide me further?

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Re: cosmic joke

Postby Xain » Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:59 am

Perhaps . . .
What would like guidance with, Eknath?
Do you think that the 'Zen Stick' is what you need because you have a habit of drifting off?

Xain ♥

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eknath
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Re: cosmic joke

Postby eknath » Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:31 pm

i read 'gatecrashers', resonated with it, fell in love with ilona and elena and would like guidance towards the freedom hinted at in your forum

i am lazy, i usually need a little push, and yes i have a habit of drifting off

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Re: cosmic joke

Postby Xain » Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:17 pm

Tell me a little about yourself.
Why the interest in LU? Have you done any previous study into this area, or followed any teachers?

What would it mean for you if you 'got it'?
Do you have any expectations?

When you say 'drifting off' what do you mean exactly?
On a scale of 1 to 10, how interested are you in realising 'no self'?

Xain ♥

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eknath
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Re: cosmic joke

Postby eknath » Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:47 pm

this interest is a very old story

natural tendency to self-inquire as a kid, started to read krishnamurti, ramana and nisargadatta in high school and discovered a strong affinity with advaita, as a student i passionately devoured every spiritual book that i could find, decided that "awakening" was my life's mission and goal, was taken for one hell of a ride in the spiritual circus and the satsang scene - more as a rebel tourist and a free spirit, never a serious seeker - meeting gurus, non-dualist, zen and plant teachers, had some exotic experiences but i remained unfulfilled and disappointed, lost my fake spiritual zeal, intellectual fascination and arrogance, had a big laugh and concluded that truth was to be found within and not externally, got sucked into mor mundane and pleasant distractions such as big business, circles of power, earning a lot of money, world traveling and beautiful girls, have been trying to lead a conventional life even though i felt like a complete alien in the business world, married a fantastic woman, 2 beautiful kids, built a nice home etc and yet remained incomplete, becoming aware of some dark stuff and a recent reversal of business fortune have turned my comfortable little world upside down, left me humbled and puzzled, hurt, outraged, depressed, lethargic and grumpy, now it feels like i can no longer escape nor avoid what i have been longing for with my heart and soul, i recently regained interest in non-duality and discovered a whole new generation of writers, a text of joey lott - 'nothing hidden' - brought my attention to this forum

having little or no expectations apart from a 'shift in perception', i am willing to come with a beginners mind, forget all the stuff i have read and have a fresh look, my interest rates at 10 on the scale as my actual state has become quite unpleasant not to say unbearable, i have lost future perspective and the usual distractions don't work anymore, inexplicably a knot of obsessive thoughts and negative emotions has become predominant in my experience, we are not amused

by 'drifting off' i mean get carried away by dramatic mind stories, sensual distractions and losing my focus

what it would mean for me to 'get it' is quite hard to imagine as i understand (in theory) that the mind will never get it and that there is no one to get it, and that everything remains the same except for seeing tru the illusion of self, life happening as me rather than to me etc but all this is parroting, not my direct experience
practically i see it like going with the flow, function spontaneously, with joy love intelligence and great humor, living and breathing life fully and fearlessly, vulnerably and effortlessly, without resistance

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Xain
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Re: cosmic joke

Postby Xain » Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:20 am

Hi Eknath (Is it going to be OK calling you that?)

Thanks for the expansive reply.
It seems like you've been through the mill there :-)
. . . had a big laugh and concluded that truth was to be found within and not externally.
I agree.
In the context of what we do here at LU, we ask you to look and find the answer for yourself.
I am not interesting in convincing you of anything. I will not be offering you new concepts or ideas - Merely examining the ones that you already have.
. . . built a nice home etc and yet remained incomplete
Hmmm . . . what's missing?
Or is this simply 'a feeling' that something is missing . . . perhaps something not explainable?
having little or no expectations apart from a 'shift in perception', i am willing to come with a beginners mind, forget all the stuff i have read and have a fresh look
Excellent. I couldn't ask for more from someone who is wishing to be guided. Thank you.
I ask the question about 'expectations' as many come with grandiose ideas about 'becoming enlightened' or 'attaining some state' or other. This is not what this is about at all.

My guiding will only be aimed at achieving one thing, and one thing only.
That is for you to realise that there is no separate self. That there has never been a separate self, nor will ever be one in the future. That all references to 'I', 'me' are simply thoughts - Ideas - A trick of the mind, if you will.
by 'drifting off' i mean get carried away by dramatic mind stories, sensual distractions and losing my focus
Ok - That's fine.
My own version of 'drifting off' is to attempt to find the answer to a question in thoughts, rather than examining your own direct experience here and now. The same thing really . . .
Don't worry - I'll have the stick handy ;-)
practically i see it like going with the flow, function spontaneously,
The realisation would be that this has always been the case. 'Thought' however masks over this simple truth and makes life appear a confusing mystery to a tiny separate individual 'self', separate from everyone and everything else.

Have a look at the following guidelines which will help us both in this journey.

1. Please post at least once a day, if you cannot post, or need more time, let me know.
2. Be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.
3. Answer from direct personal experience only (we can go into this in more depth later if needed).
4. Read the disclaimer on the Liberation Unleashed main site -> http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

If you need to you can use the QUOTE function like I have done above to quote some of your replies - It may make it easier to read through the dialogue.
A guide for this function can be found here: http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

Xain ♥

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eknath
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Re: cosmic joke

Postby eknath » Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:09 am

hi xain,
yes you can call me eknath, a funny reminder of my past hindu trip
i am ok with guidelines and disclaimer

what's missing? its a nagging and visceral 'feeling', in the belly, in the heart, the throat, a pressure in the head, and the associated idea that something is wrong, it has been there for as long as i can remember, its not the kind of feelings that come and go but appears to be firmly rooted and permanent, and it is inexplainable like you say, all the explanations about this feeling are just varying pretexts

right here right now while sitting under a pine tree with a gentle warm breeze, hearing the crickets and watching a deep blue sea, this 'feeling' or contraction is present, spoiling my vacation but also fueling this process i guess

will the realization that there is no self and that its all mindfuck affect the way mind the mind works and shitty 'feelings' appear?

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Xain
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Re: cosmic joke

Postby Xain » Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:40 pm

Will the realization that there is no self and that its all mindfuck affect the way mind the mind works and shitty 'feelings' appear?
Well a couple of things to say here.

This appears to be an expectation - That negative feelings (or more specifically, the 'thoughts' that generate them) will stop. This is unlikely to happen. BUT what is likely to be realised is that the thoughts have no 'truth' or 'reality' to them. It will be found that the thoughts around 'I', 'me' will be seen as just that - Just thoughts only - And not that the thought relates to anything existing or 'real'.

In terms of 'mindfuck' (and I used the term 'trick of the mind'), it will be realised that these thoughts and the process of negative thoughts appearing is simply 'how it is' and 'it could not be any different'.
The assumption is that there is a person, an individual, an 'I' that has some-sort of control of life's processes and it will be realised that this is not the case.

The first thing to gauge in our discussion is to find what you currently believe yourself to be.
This should be kept very simple and should not be anything requiring in-depth analysis or thought.

The standard view of 'I', 'me' is that of a person - A body with a mind.
The standard view is that 'I' refers to this body that appears here in awareness. Also 'I' have control over this body.
Since 'I' am this body, 'I' see, 'I' hear, 'I' feel etc - I perform all the senses.
This body was born - It will live a number of years - And then it (I) will die.

Currently, would it be fair to say that you believe that currently you are a person sitting in a chair, looking at a computer screen and reading words off it right now?

Feel free to reject what I have suggested if they don't match what you currently believe yourself to be.
Tell me in your own words if necessary - What does the word 'I' point to?

Xain ♥

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eknath
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Re: cosmic joke

Postby eknath » Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:50 am

right on xain, the standard view applies, i believe i am a person, and this person has many expectations, that's the habitual and chronic experience, i have had many experiences temporarily suspending and challenging this view but that's not relevant to how it is

looking into what the word 'I' points to: this is very elusive, it appears to be solidly there when uninspected and disappears or cannot be found as soon as 'you' look for it, can't possibly make any sense out of it, 'just a thought' appears to be irrefutable

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eknath
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Re: cosmic joke

Postby eknath » Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:55 am

right on xain, the standard view applies, i believe i am a person, and this person has many expectations, that's the habitual and chronic experience, i have had many experiences temporarily suspending and challenging this view but that's not relevant to how it is

looking into what the word 'I' points to: this is very elusive, it appears to be solidly there when uninspected and disappears or cannot be found as soon as 'you' look for it, can't possibly make any sense out of it, 'just a thought' appears to be irrefutable

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eknath
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Re: cosmic joke

Postby eknath » Fri Aug 01, 2014 9:24 am

in the past i used to chase my own tail inquiring 'who am i?' and look at what's looking and it always felt like an infinite regression or impossible self-reference loop, the sense of me becomes very subtle when chased, not so much a bodymind but more like space or a background or what is looking or aware or simply present etc but still something 'separate' or other, whether gross or subtle, expanded or reduced at infinitum, some ultimate and ungraspable subjectivity, but the undelying assumption of 'who or what am i?' is that there is an 'i' to be found out and so the wording of the pointer itself can be very deceptive, 'there is no me' and 'just a thought' appears to be much more straightforward as a pointer

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eknath
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Re: cosmic joke

Postby eknath » Fri Aug 01, 2014 9:37 am

having some trouble with the quote function on my ipad

you wrote about my expectation:"That negative feelings (or more specifically, the 'thoughts' that generate them) will stop. This is unlikely to happen." damn! not what i wanted to hear haha

"... BUT what is likely to be realised is that the thoughts have no 'truth' or 'reality' to them. It will be found that the thoughts around 'I', 'me' will be seen as just that - Just thoughts only - And not that the thought relates to anything existing or 'real'."
YES! this is a very useful pointer Xain!

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eknath
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Re: cosmic joke

Postby eknath » Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:46 pm

been focusing on direct experience (sensing sounds smells images bodily feelings emotions incl thoughts) rather than mere mentalizing as this appears to be key

'just thoughts' appears to deflate the 'thinker' and the seriousness of mental babble

it's very puzzling and paradoxical because all problems, questions, tensions, notions and thoughts related to sense of me and 'i' appear quite meaningless and hollow against the backdrop of just noticing, and even that sounds funny because the words 'just noticing' imply some decision to just notice or an actor that is not found, so in a way the statement that 'everything is just happening' makes sense

whatever happens it is seen, again and again, or rather it is never not seen, how it is is just how it is, all effort is effortlessly noticed, hmmm the mind does not like this at all, this can't be it it seems too simple haha

going for a swim now, writing and thinking about this seems futile


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