Guidance, please! :)

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Hilary
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Guidance, please! :)

Postby Hilary » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:20 am

Hi there!

My name is Hilary. I came across a pdf of a talk Ilona gave in "Avant-Garde Sages" and have read a lot of the websites (this one and Marked, Eternal) and several chapters of the Gateless Gate over the last week or so. I had a brief moment of no self - no nothing - after reading the piece on Expectations (I love that!). Things have been feeling more clear, more calm as if there HAS been a falling away of at least something(s) over the last week. Then yesterday, I had quite a beautiful "moment" of some kind while reading Michael's story. It was nice. . . It lasted for about an hour and then it has lessened and returned off and on today/this evening. Very subtle, very peaceful and maybe a little spacey (?) - it definitely felt like maybe awareness instead of living from a "me" standpoint. I have gotten up to Step 5 on "Start Here" - I feel stuck, however.

My most honest and best answer that I can come up with (so far) when I look to see if there is a "me" is "I don't know." I certainly don't see it or find a "me" anywhere and I feel like just because I can't find it, it doesn't mean it's not there. . . and when I get myself to focus more or to do certain exercises, I feel like there's definitely at least a sense of a "me" doing this. So, while I know I'm not finding proof of an "I" anywhere, I don't feel like I'm finding proof that there isn't. I feel like maybe there's no way to prove this. So, for me, maybe "I don't know" will have to suffice. . .? I feel confused about this and the idea of no free will whatsoever - at all.

If someone is free to help me, I'd love to hear from you. Thank you so much! I love this site!!

Hilary in Los Angeles

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Sarah7
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Re: Guidance, please! :)

Postby Sarah7 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:56 pm

Hi Hilary
My name is Sarah and I would be happy to guide you.

Just so that I know about any time differences - I’m in England!

There are also a few standard ground rules before we start:

Please agree to post at least once a day, even if only to say that you're still around, and I'll do the same. Sometimes it might just not be possible for one of us to post substantively and of course we'd find a way to work round that.

I am not your teacher, all I can do is point and you look, until clear seeing happens.

In general, I will ask questions and you look deeply and respond with 100% honesty.

Responses require simple, uncontrived honest looking. There are no wrong or right answers.

Responses are best from direct experience (the physical evidence of seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, and smelling, prior to the story or explanation about them). Long-winded, analytical and philosophical or stream of consciousness answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. Just listen very closely to the answers that arise in you, and answer to the very best of your ability at that time. (Read the article at http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ience.html for more help on distinguishing what is direct experience.)

Put aside all other teachings, philosophies etc. for the duration of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention into seeing this reality, as it is. (If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it's ok to continue with that. And it's fine to read threads in this forum and the Gateless Gatecrashers book.)

Please learn to use the quote function, see viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660 for instructions.

If you haven't already seen it, there is intro info at http://www.liberationunleashed.com/, together with our disclaimer and a short video.

Please confirm that you have seen these, that you agree to the disclaimer and then we'll begin.

Finally, here's a couple of helpful points:

1) You can press 'subscribe to this topic' in the blue bar at the bottom of this page and receive a notification email every time I post here.

2) The site has a nasty habit of logging you out while you write a reply, which can mean you lose what you have written. One way to avoid this is to write elsewhere, then just paste the message into the 'reply' window when you're ready to send.

Look forward to working with you.
Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Hilary
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Re: Guidance, please! :)

Postby Hilary » Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:27 pm

Hi Sarah!

Yay! Thank you—I’m excited.

I agree to all and confirm that I have seen disclaimers (I agree to those, too) and video. (Will watch it again though.)

I’m in Los Angeles. Time difference doesn’t bother me if it doesn’t bother you. 

Thank you so much and I look forward to working with you, too!

xo
Hilary

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Sarah7
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Re: Guidance, please! :)

Postby Sarah7 » Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:52 pm

Hi Hilary
Then yesterday, I had quite a beautiful "moment" of some kind while reading Michael's story. It was nice. . . It lasted for about an hour and then it has lessened and returned off and on today/this evening. Very subtle, very peaceful and maybe a little spacey (?) - it definitely felt like maybe awareness instead of living from a "me" standpoint.
Is anything permanent – anything at all?
I have gotten up to Step 5 on "Start Here" - I feel stuck, however.
I may have to poke about a bit to see where you are – hope that’s OK?

Let's start with a summary of what you're looking for and what you expect to find. If you've already answered some of these, please forgive any overlap and just fill in the gaps where you haven't, and we'll get started.

What are your expectations for this process?

What is it that you are searching for?

How will you know that you found it?

How will this feel?

How will this change you?
My most honest and best answer that I can come up with (so far) when I look to see if there is a "me" is "I don't know." I certainly don't see it or find a "me" anywhere and I feel like just because I can't find it, it doesn't mean it's not there. . . and when I get myself to focus more or to do certain exercises, I feel like there's definitely at least a sense of a "me" doing this. So, while I know I'm not finding proof of an "I" anywhere, I don't feel like I'm finding proof that there isn't. I feel like maybe there's no way to prove this. So, for me, maybe "I don't know" will have to suffice. . .? I feel confused about this and the idea of no free will whatsoever - at all.
So as you look now how do you experience the 'self', 'I' or ‘me’'? And you can repeat I don’t know as much as you like! Have a look though and see ‘how’ you experience ‘you’. OK.

For instance does it feel like its in the centre or middle of experience, is it solid or thick, does it feel fixed or permanent, is it inside the body or part of the body, does it change, does it feel uniquely different and separate, does it become more or less solid or obvious depending on experience, does it have colour or shape or texture, is it small or large, does this self own the body or the thoughts and feelings it experiences?

Is it made up of thoughts and feelings, sensations, emotions, likes and dislikes, opinions, memories and experiences, perceptions, character and personality, does this self decide, chose, act, do and control? Anything else? Is there a time when the self is not experienced?

Where does the 'self' that you conceive yourself to be reside? Is it in the body as a whole, part of the body or somewhere else? Can you pinpoint an exact reference point? Can it be found, at all?
Lots of Love Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Hilary
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Re: Guidance, please! :)

Postby Hilary » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:34 pm

Hi Sarah! I'm going to answer you in pieces. (I hope I'm doing the quoting right!)
Is anything permanent – anything at all?
The only thing I can think of that could possibly be permanent are energy (maybe) and life – I don’t mean that in the sense of the word “alive” – but just what is, so maybe isness, for lack a better word. And, even then, I can’t be certain either of those are definitely permanent.
What are your expectations for this process?
I have a lot of silly ideas floating around that are about attaining enlightenment, superiority, knowing more, figuring it all out, not having anything come up that bothers me ever again, everything will just roll right off my back, etc. I see these expectations come up and don’t see them as being realistic. If I’m being really honest with myself though and keeping it simple, what I really expect is to continue this dialogue with you, for me to follow your instructions, answer your questions . . . I do hope to have a shift of some sort (or more of this feeling of having things fall away that I've been experiencing), to see the truth about this “me” business and reality but don’t necessarily “expect” that.

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Hilary
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Re: Guidance, please! :)

Postby Hilary » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:48 pm

What are your expectations for this process?
I think I am searching for freedom (and peace) and if it turns out that I see that I’ve been believing in something false, I hope to see that very clearly. I have been a longtime “seeker” (especially when it comes to relationships, spirituality and knowledge about how life works) and I would love to drop the seeking energy completey, mainly because after hanging out on this website and reading some of the materials, I’m starting to see how much pain this constant chasing/seeking has caused me. I guess I’m now seeking to stop seeking. :)
How will you know that you found it?
I don’t really know. I’m guessing if I felt like I felt a few days ago. Things seemed to just be, I felt calm, I felt like everything was handled with or without my input or effort. Maybe it might last longer and that would let me know. That would be nice but I’m not sure. Maybe I would be able to tell because I’d feel more peaceful, overall, and I would feel less of a need to try to control things around me. The main thing, I think. . . I wouldn’t identify with the “me” anymore. If that all stopped (or substantially lessened), I guess I would know then. . .

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Hilary
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Re: Guidance, please! :)

Postby Hilary » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:55 pm

How will this feel?
I imagine it might feel less burdened, lighter, more quiet. Maybe I’d feel the same but I just wouldn’t believe my thoughts/emotions so much – that I would let things come up and then watch them go without so much attachment.
How will this change you?
I can imagine that it could conceivably change my life for the better but I don’t know. I don’t think it will actually change anything about what I actually am. . . it might change how I approach life, in general (and I hope it does). I’m a little afraid it could change me so that I’m really boring, have no personality and have nothing to talk about anymore! Like I was labotamized or something. Haha.

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Hilary
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Re: Guidance, please! :)

Postby Hilary » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:19 pm

So as you look now how do you experience the 'self', 'I' or ‘me’'? And you can repeat I don’t know as much as you like! Have a look though and see ‘how’ you experience ‘you’. OK.
Okay. Generally speaking, I experience the self, I or me as the one typing, the one reading, not necessarily the one thinking (although sometimes) but the one observing the thoughts coming up and THEN deciding to type, move,
act, etc. The one taking in the world and processing information.
For instance does it feel like its in the centre or middle of experience, is it solid or thick, does it feel fixed or permanent, is it inside the body or part of the body, does it change, does it feel uniquely different and separate, does it become more or less solid or obvious depending on experience, does it have colour or shape or texture, is it small or large, does this self own the body or the thoughts and feelings it experiences?
It doesn’t seem/feel solid to me. . . A lot of it has to do with seeing through my eyes – actual eyesight. . . I feel that because I’m seeing, that IS the “me” seeing – maybe like this “I” is centered in my brain, it’s “me” behind the eyes. But upon rereading that part above, it sounds ludicrous when I think about what’s actually behind my eyes, what my brain is actually made up of – I don’t see any of this and I don’t think any scientist or surgeon can. Then, I imagine nothing being there except maybe energy or life force of some sort.

Most of the time, I do feel like this self is fixed but, as I write this, I’m also currently picturing the self to be almost like an overlay, if that makes sense. So, then that doesn’t seem very solid or fixed then at all . . .it’s just an overlay.

And, most of the time, it does feel quite, quite separate despite what I’ve read, etc. It does become less pronounced, less obvious at times. . .especially when I allow myself to truly entertain the possiblity that it’s all just a story, it’s all made up.

I never experience it as having color, shape or texture. And when I check to see if this self is small or large, it almost makes me giggle because it seems so silly that it would have a size. Ha.

Up until a week or so ago, I have always thought of the self as owning the body, not so much this week though. It’s feels hard to separate the two ideas though. This identity of “me”/Hilary and MY body. It doesn’t ring as true for me now though. . .but generally, it does.

I don’t feel like this self owns the thoughts and feelings it experiences but I do feel that they’re specific to “my” self – at least most of the time.
Is it made up of thoughts and feelings, sensations, emotions, likes and dislikes, opinions, memories and experiences, perceptions, character and personality, does this self decide, chose, act, do and control? Anything else? Is there a time when the self is not experienced?
Yes, mostly eyesight, a little bit of feeling the body (such sitting in a chair, feeling like the entire body is “me” sitting in a chair). Sometimes, I don’t feel like my thoughts or emotions are “me”, but I do feel like I am the perceiver of them. Hearing, smelling – I have an easier time with feeling like sounds or smells just happen, etc. Feeling, tasting, seeing are more associated with “me” for some reason.

I DO think the “me” is made up of likes and dislikes but when I take this particular one a step further, my mind instantly says “but those are just thoughts. . .” The same is true when I closely investigate opinions, memories. Experiences and perceptions are tougher for me—stickier. That “I” am the experiencer and the perceiver.

I’ve made some headway with this over the last week but there’s still a part of me that hangs onto the idea that the self does control at least some things – waiting to use the restroom, for example. Wanting to eat but choosing instead to get some work done first. Choosing WHAT I eat, etc. Picking out my clothes for the day. . . that sort of thing. If I were to choose to give my subconscious different information, then I would have a different outcome in certain situations, etc. That would feel like I chose it – I chose to give my mind different information to work with. Or if I were to decide to post a note on my computer one night, to remember to do something the following day—and I then see the note the following day, my thoughts will go to whatever the note was about. That feels like choice, like I’m using my free will. Another example is when Ilona or Elena say in the GG book that one really needs to focus. It feels like if I do that, that’s “me” choosing to really focus on something.

Maybe when I'm sleeping, my self is not experienced? I don't know. I felt like I experienced some moments of no self the other day and a little bit on the day after that. I've had experiences when I was a performer of something that felt like no experienceing of the self (long ago and maybe only once or twice).

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Hilary
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Re: Guidance, please! :)

Postby Hilary » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:24 pm

Where does the 'self' that you conceive yourself to be reside? Is it in the body as a whole, part of the body or somewhere else? Can you pinpoint an exact reference point? Can it be found, at all?
I honestly don’t think it can be found anywhere, despite my eyesight/brain ideas above. I don’t feel like I think it actually resides in any particular spot of the body. Sometimes I feel like it could be in the body, as a whole, the energy that animates the body could be “me”. . . although I definitely cannot pinpoint any reference point whatsover and I know I can’t find it and, as far as I know, no one has been able to either.

Thank you, Sarah! I hope it was okay that it was in piecemeal.

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Sarah7
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Re: Guidance, please! :)

Postby Sarah7 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:32 am

Hi Hilary
Lovely answers and some very clear looking.
I have a lot of silly ideas floating around that are about attaining enlightenment, superiority, knowing more, figuring it all out, not having anything come up that bothers me ever again, everything will just roll right off my back, etc. I see these expectations come up and don’t see them as being realistic. If I’m being really honest with myself though and keeping it simple, what I really expect is to continue this dialogue with you, for me to follow your instructions, answer your questions . . . I do hope to have a shift of some sort (or more of this feeling of having things fall away that I've been experiencing), to see the truth about this “me” business and reality but don’t necessarily “expect” that.
Expectations can be tricky little beggars! So if I see one Ill flag it OK! Can you see the silly ideas float around?

Do you see all this as just thought? Are thought contents real? Can you watch thinking happen like clouds crossing a sky?
I think I am searching for freedom (and peace) and if it turns out that I see that I’ve been believing in something false, I hope to see that very clearly.
Is this a future based thought? Without thought – what is wrong with right now! Don’t think about it – look. Be.
I have been a longtime “seeker” (especially when it comes to relationships, spirituality and knowledge about how life works) and I would love to drop the seeking energy completey, mainly because after hanging out on this website and reading some of the materials, I’m starting to see how much pain this constant chasing/seeking has caused me. I guess I’m now seeking to stop seeking. :)
Can you see that this is thought wanting something other than what is? Can you see this? Then look for the thought that says – ‘right that’s what Im doing, lets stop that now’ – LOL. Can a thought control anything? Anything at all? Take your time with this – look everywhere.
I wouldn’t identify with the “me” anymore.
Can you stop thought? Try it! Can you make thought do anything?
I’m a little afraid it could change me so that I’m really boring, have no personality and have nothing to talk about anymore! Like I was labotamized or something. Haha.
LOL. No. We don’t do lobotomies or zombies! Can you see this little fear? Can you stare right at it? Is it made up of future based thought? Or something else?
Okay. Generally speaking, I experience the self, I or me as the one typing, the one reading, not necessarily the one thinking (although sometimes) but the one observing the thoughts coming up and THEN deciding to type, move, act, etc. The one taking in the world and processing information.
Do you DO this – or just watch this? Do you decide what to think before it is thought?
I’ve made some headway with this over the last week but there’s still a part of me that hangs onto the idea that the self does control at least some things – waiting to use the restroom, for example. Wanting to eat but choosing instead to get some work done first. Choosing WHAT I eat, etc. Picking out my clothes for the day. . . that sort of thing. If I were to choose to give my subconscious different information, then I would have a different outcome in certain situations, etc. That would feel like I chose it – I chose to give my mind different information to work with. Or if I were to decide to post a note on my computer one night, to remember to do something the following day—and I then see the note the following day, my thoughts will go to whatever the note was about. That feels like choice, like I’m using my free will. Another example is when Ilona or Elena say in the GG book that one really needs to focus. It feels like if I do that, that’s “me” choosing to really focus on something.
Next time you notice your attention on something – see if you control where it goes next, how long it stays on something, whether it stays at all or dissipates into thought day dreaming. Just notice. Can you control attention – or does it go where it wants how it wants and when it wants. Same with choice – watch the doing of choice with the thoughts attached. Is the thought coming in before, during or after choice is made? Do you ever find a contradiction between thought saying one thing and hand choosing something else? If choice was fixed and controlled there would be no mistakes ever. Every time you go near that wardrobe – look and notice what happens.
Love and hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Hilary
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Re: Guidance, please! :)

Postby Hilary » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:49 pm

Hi Sarah! Thank you for your email. One quick question - it's a separate matter (sort of). Ha. I see a therapist once a week. Not for any clinical diagnosis or anything like that. Just relationship and family stuff. I know she's on board with the no free will idea because we discussed it last week. I agree to the disclaimers and I know that no one on this forum is responsible for my mental health - but I'd like to still go to see her. I enjoy it. Do you have any recommendations for how I can maybe try to approach my sessions while I'm doing this work with you? (I go on Sundays usually.) Thank you!

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Hilary
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Re: Guidance, please! :)

Postby Hilary » Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:33 pm

Expectations can be tricky little beggars! So if I see one Ill flag it OK! Can you see the silly ideas float around?

Do you see all this as just thought? Are thought contents real? Can you watch thinking happen like clouds crossing a sky?
Sounds good to me!

I can see the silly ideas float around, for sure. I’ve been getting into the habit of not only watching them come but saying to myself “that’s just mind doing its thing” “or that’s nothing, that’s just a thought” – it’s been helpful :) Thought contents are NOT real. I’m positive. They do not contain reality they are merely commentary/opinions. I can watch thoughts thinking happen like clouds in the sky. . . I’m getting better and better – and I love that metaphor. They really do feel like clouds passing through – or even across clear blue sky.
Is this a future based thought? Without thought – what is wrong with right now! Don’t think about it – look. Be.
Yes, this is nothing but a future based thought. It’s more of what I think I will “get”

Without the future based thought, there is only right now – and it’s the perfect time to see it. . .and I am right now. Having a little bit of another “moment” of very clear seeing. . .and I’m at WORK! :) Love it.
Can you see that this is thought wanting something other than what is? Can you see this? Then look for the thought that says – ‘right that’s what Im doing, lets stop that now’ – LOL. Can a thought control anything? Anything at all? Take your time with this – look everywhere.
I can completely see that this “seeking to stop seeking” is going against what is coming up as a thought. Right now, I see that there’s no reason to push against it. Whatever. It’ll come, it’ll go. Clouds. The thought to seek is a cloud and so is the thought to stop the seeking.

No. I do not believe a thought can control anything. Maybe trigger more thoughts (?), but I’m not sure. Will think about this some more and write more later.
Can you stop thought? Try it! Can you make thought do anything?
I have never been able to stop a thought. I’ve tried. They just come. I don’t think I can make thought do anything whatsoever.
LOL. No. We don’t do lobotomies or zombies! Can you see this little fear? Can you stare right at it? Is it made up of future based thought? Or something else?
Glad one of us knows how to spell lobotomy! Haha.

I can see this little fear in my mind. . . and it does feel like just a little fear that could be easily disspated. The one that’s feels more “real” – although I know it’s not – is the core fear, the lynchpin of all of them, that I keep seeing pop up and I’ll share it with you here, just for fun (I’m not exeperiencing it right now though) – that all of this investigation will get in the way of this “I” either getting what it wants in the future OR losing whatever it has now that it wants to hang onto.
Do you DO this – or just watch this? Do you decide what to think before it is thought?
I am starting to really see that I do not DO this. . . still a little stuck with the watching/watcher part. That “I” am watching. I do not decide to think before a thought is thought—that itself would just be a thought, too. I’m going to think about this more today and post more later today. . .
Next time you notice your attention on something – see if you control where it goes next, how long it stays on something, whether it stays at all or dissipates into thought day dreaming. Just notice. Can you control attention – or does it go where it wants how it wants and when it wants. Same with choice – watch the doing of choice with the thoughts attached. Is the thought coming in before, during or after choice is made? Do you ever find a contradiction between thought saying one thing and hand choosing something else? If choice was fixed and controlled there would be no mistakes ever. Every time you go near that wardrobe – look and notice what happens.
I will try this out. . . it does seemingly just go where it feels like going, nothing to do with me. I really have to ponder this last part about choice a bit more, too. It’s loosening up, I can feel it but it’s hanging on for dear life!! Ha.

Can you please say more about “If choice was fixed and controlled there would be no mistakes ever.”?

Will write more later today. Thank you, Sarah!!! xoxo

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Sarah7
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Re: Guidance, please! :)

Postby Sarah7 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:10 pm

Hi Hilary
Do you have any recommendations for how I can maybe try to approach my sessions while I'm doing this work with you?
I suppose just see how it goes. From what has been experienced here – I speak based on where the person I am talking to is.
I can see the silly ideas float around, for sure. I’ve been getting into the habit of not only watching them come but saying to myself “that’s just mind doing its thing” “or that’s nothing, that’s just a thought” – it’s been helpful :) Thought contents are NOT real. I’m positive. They do not contain reality they are merely commentary/opinions. I can watch thoughts thinking happen like clouds in the sky. . . I’m getting better and better – and I love that metaphor. They really do feel like clouds passing through – or even across clear blue sky.
OK – so when identification happens – notice the thoughts attached – see what kind they are – no need to follow content – but if it happens – not to worry – just come back to noticing when remembering happens. If there is sensation too – look at that – see if thoughts are trying to attach – trying to tell stories (lots of thoughts). Gently push them to one side and go to the sensation – feel, smell, hear, see….. what is actually being experienced in that perfect moment?
Without the future based thought, there is only right now – and it’s the perfect time to see it. . .and I am right now. Having a little bit of another “moment” of very clear seeing. . .and I’m at WORK! :) Love it.
It is never not there! Where would that perfect moment go if it is always here? That doesnt mean everything is labelled 'good', simply what is - is what is - how can it be different? Its only thought that says its not there – look yourself. Just simply see the moment.
I can completely see that this “seeking to stop seeking” is going against what is coming up as a thought. Right now, I see that there’s no reason to push against it. Whatever. It’ll come, it’ll go. Clouds. The thought to seek is a cloud and so is the thought to stop the seeking.
YES!!!!! Simply what is! Beautiful!
No. I do not believe a thought can control anything. Maybe trigger more thoughts (?), but I’m not sure. Will think about this some more and write more later.
So can a thought think? Look – don’t believe! Verify everything yourself!
I don’t think I can make thought do anything whatsoever.
Check! Test this!
I can see this little fear in my mind. . . and it does feel like just a little fear that could be easily disspated. The one that’s feels more “real” – although I know it’s not – is the core fear, the lynchpin of all of them, that I keep seeing pop up and I’ll share it with you here, just for fun (I’m not exeperiencing it right now though) – that all of this investigation will get in the way of this “I” either getting what it wants in the future OR losing whatever it has now that it wants to hang onto.
I have a large set of questions to do with fear – I will pm them to you.

What is future? Do you directly experience it? How? Same with want – look deeply into it – what is it? Future thought again? Is it made up of sensation too? Is there story attached? Ask with love – what is thought afraid will happen? It is essentially only trying to protect. There is love there – so thank it and have a good look right at it!
I am starting to really see that I do not DO this. . . still a little stuck with the watching/watcher part.

Are you the watcher? Or the thing that ‘knows’ watching is arising in?

So – choice and attention too – come back when you have had chance to look! Wardrobe here Hilary comes!!!!!
Love and Hugs Sarah xxx
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Hilary
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Re: Guidance, please! :)

Postby Hilary » Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:16 am

Hi Sarah!

Okay, regarding my shrink sessions, thank you. :)
OK – so when identification happens – notice the thoughts attached – see what kind they are – no need to follow content – but if it happens – not to worry – just come back to noticing when remembering happens. If there is sensation too – look at that – see if thoughts are trying to attach – trying to tell stories (lots of thoughts). Gently push them to one side and go to the sensation – feel, smell, hear, see….. what is actually being experienced in that perfect moment?
Okay, will notice and pay attention to the thoughts and try to notice sensations, too. Something I was doing before coming to this forum was if a stressful thought came up, I would try to let it come up and let whatever bodily sensation accompanied it pass through – still doing this over the past week or so and it’s usually felt in the solar plexus. Will do more of this.
It is never not there! Where would that perfect moment go if it is always here? That doesnt mean everything is labelled 'good', simply what is - is what is - how can it be different? Its only thought that says its not there – look yourself. Just simply see the moment.
That makes sense to me. The perfect moment couldn’t go anywhere since it is always here. There is nothing but this here, at any given time, and it’s the way life unfolded – exactly the way it is supposed to. Yes. What is, is.

I love what you have at the bottom of your posts, by the way. I’ve actually found it very helpful over the last day or so with something that’s been going on. That no matter what thoughts come up about something that’s unfolded, no matter what my mind says about it, the unfoldment is the unfoldment. So, regardless of what kind of narrative I put it on it, whether I comprehend the why of it (or not), it’s the way it has unfolded—regardless of anything AT ALL. Love it!
So can a thought think? Look – don’t believe! Verify everything yourself!
No. A thought cannot think. It can only do what it does which is make itself known as a thought and then fade away – it might appear again later – but it’s still just a visiting, passing thought. And I cannot make a thought do anything whatsoever.

I just now figured out how to get your list of questions on fear. Will bring them home and work with them over the weekend. As far as the other fear/want questions, here's what I have so far:
What is future? Do you directly experience it? How? Same with want – look deeply into it – what is it? Future thought again? Is it made up of sensation too? Is there story attached? Ask with love – what is thought afraid will happen? It is essentially only trying to protect. There is love there – so thank it and have a good look right at it!


Future is 100% imaginary. It is never here and is just an idea, a thought. I can never directly experience it or anything that would show up in it – it never arrives. There is only this now. I can only directly experience what is right here, right now.

Oh, boy, when I look at want. . . and I’ve been dealing with this one over the last couple of days – If I really look, I see that wanting is just a thought – definitely future based, it revolves around thinking that something separate from what’s actually happening, outside of life/outside of now, will make things “perfect.” Thinking that if I get what “I” want, I’ll be more at ease/life will be better—this is just a thought, a lie even. I was able to remember this morning that there’s nothing happening outside of life, ever, and I’m not in control of how things play out (and neither are the other parties who are supposedly withholding what I want! haha). I may get what “I” want or I may not but – either way, it will be how life unfolded and was supposed to unfold. And no matter what I think about it, it will be the way life unfolded and there’s nothing outside of that ever.

Sometimes wanting/pining/longing is accompanied by sensation in my gut. Almost like an ache. There are always stories attached. They can usually can be summed up by “If I get that, life will be GREAT!! GLAMOROUS!! AMAZING!!! BEAUTIFUL!!!” and/or “If I don’t get that, life will SUCK!” ha. But the truth has always been, even if I get even a little bit of whatever it is, there’s always another want right behind it. And so on. . . an endless loop of trying to “get.” I love when I read in the piece on exepectation – the part that says that nothing has ever, ever turned out how my expectations would have me believe it would. My wants seem to be based on nothing other than patterns, triggers, etc. Otherwise, I would “get” them and that would be enough!

When I look at both “fear” and “want”, they seem to be centered around the fear of relinquishing the illusion of control. This is all very tied in to the investating I’m doing about that there’s no free will, no doer, etc. It’s a sticky one for me. (More on that below)

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Hilary
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Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:16 pm

Re: Guidance, please! :)

Postby Hilary » Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:21 am

Are you the watcher? Or the thing that ‘knows’ watching is arising in?

So – choice and attention too – come back when you have had chance to look! Wardrobe here Hilary comes!!!!!
I like that. The thing that knows watching is arising in. It’s not quite fully clicking but it makes sense and I’ll observe and work with this over the weekend.

Okay, so I gave your attention/focus question from yeseterday a lot of thought and observation while driving last night. I noticed that I don’t control where my focus goes, ever really. Nor can I control how long it focuses on any one thing. And if I seemed to lose focus on one thing and something else took my attention, I had no say in when the original topic came back to be focused on again!

Also noticing that when I’m reading, I don’t decide ahead of time what I’m going to underline – it just has been happening today and then I think about it immediately after. I noticed it while plucking my eyebrows this morning! haha. Still need to do more observing about choice (e.g., the wardrobe).

Looking forward to this weekend so I can dig in even more and work on what you PM'd to me.

Thank you so very much, Sarah!!! I hope you had a lovely Friday evening.

xo
Hilary


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