please lead me through the Gate

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well
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please lead me through the Gate

Postby well » Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:54 pm

Dear guide,
some weeks ago my search for the Source brought me to the headless way. I did the experiments and happened to see what I really am - transparency, clarity, space, capacity for the world, all and nothing at the same time. Since then, I've applied this new view of my life as often and as intensely as possible, by trying to be aware of my inner Self during daily activities. Still I seem to be me, there is definitely a sense of identity. I do not want this any more. Why? As long as I think I am someone, I cannot be the source. But I want to. I no longer want to ignore and disvalue this greatest of all mysteries by my ignorance and ego-fixation. I want to give It It's due place in life, which is I'm nothing (I don't even exist, as I've already felt for some rare moments) and It is All. I want to express Life instead of this restricted tense individual.
Another thing I'm sad about is that I know I'm capable of loving and feeling joy, and I feel shame that I so often don't. I'm coming short of my potential.
Can you help me?

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Lib
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Re: please lead me through the Gate

Postby Lib » Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:09 pm

Dear Well,
I am happy to help guide you through this process. Glad that you could join us.

There is just a bit of housekeeping necessary before we start.
Please take a look at the intro page of LU here with a short video
that is well worth watching if you have a few minutes.
It describes what we call 'looking' which is key.

http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

Some guidelines that I would like your agreement on:

Agree to post daily or near daily, if only to let me know there
will be a delay.

2) To set aside any other spiritual practices during this inquiry.

3) To relate only from your own direct experiencing, and not from second hand knowledge or quoting?

4) I will ask questions and you answer.... listen very closely to the answers that arise in you. Answer to the very best of your ability at that time.

4) If you do agree to the above....please share all of what your expectations are to see through the illusion of the separate self, and if there are any concerns/fears about that?

If you could confirm you have considered the above and are in agreement, then we can go ahead and get started.
Also, could you tell me where you are located, time zone wise? I am in the U.S. Pacific time zone.

Lib

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well
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Re: please lead me through the Gate

Postby well » Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:24 pm

Dear Lib,

thank you for adopting me!
I'm located in Germany, central european summer time (while I'm submitting this, it is 22:25 here)
I agree to all guidelines, and I've watched nearly all of the videos on the intro page since yesterday.
Here is my answer to your question (4):
I expect that what I believe and sometimes experience to be true (everything is love) and what I mostly experience to be true (sometimes there's love, often there isn't) will melt together. I expect to be able to feel the unity of all and me continuously. Or rather, I expect that I would experience the unity of me (which is called Well now) with myself (which is called everything else now). I expect that this taste of me, Well, will be the only reality that exists. That everything consists of what I thought was only me (different from other things and persons).
This afternoon and eve I'm in a state where it is easy for me to feel things as myself, Well. The surface structure of the things, the bending of the outlines, the intensity of shadow and light, the flow of the melodies seem to wear my branding - if I look/hear carefully. I'm longing to see that there is no seperate me, and no seperate other entities. I would love to laugh at myself about that crazy assumption. I'm feeling like the moment might come soon when I experience this instead of only imagining it - meaning that I will no longer be able to buy into the seperate feeling.
Concerns and fears are not so strongly noticed. From awakening stories I learnt that there can be an anxious moment like jumping from a cliff or dissolving or things like that, that surely wouldn't feel so lovely to me, but I'm not afraid of any of that now as they seem just stories in this moment. But I think that I could be afraid in another moment. I'm not afraid of the consequences of seeing through the illusion of the seperate self. I don't expect any bad consequences. I only expect good ones. I'm not such an afraid person in general and have already coped with many changes in life, so why be afraid.

Thank you for listening,
Well

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Re: please lead me through the Gate

Postby Lib » Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:38 am

That is good noticing. Will serve you well while we dialogue. I will be out until late and will have a response for you a bit later in your day. Look forward to working with you.

Lib

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Re: please lead me through the Gate

Postby Lib » Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:02 pm

Thanks for your patience, Well. We'll get our schedules worked out as we go along.

We do a thorough cleaning here when it comes to expectations, Well. It's very important because expectations are the main barrier that keeps you from seeing what is already present. The expectation is always, in one form or another, that it should be different from what is already present in your ordinary experience. Everything arises as before - emotions, reactions - but with no need that it should be anything different than what it is.
I expect that what I believe and sometimes experience to be true (everything is love) and what I mostly experience to be true (sometimes there's love, often there isn't) will melt together. I expect to be able to feel the unity of all and me continuously. Or rather, I expect that I would experience the unity of me (which is called Well now) with myself (which is called everything else now).


“Unity” comes not as an other-worldly or mystical experience as much as discovering that the subtle barriers (in thought) that we erected between ourselves and others drop away. And in a very ordinary and natural way.
This afternoon and eve I'm in a state where it is easy for me to feel things as myself, Well.


Just notice that states always come and go. Sensations are never permanent. Have a look in experience…have you ever seen permanent sensations? Seeing through the illusion is just a direct knowing, insight into the true nature of things - that there is no separate self in reality. Could you elaborate more how how you feel things as yourself?
I will no longer be able to buy into the seperate feeling.
Any thought (feeling) can arise, including “buying into separation.” It is a habit of the mind.

Fear should not be a problem. No jumping off the cliff or dissolving sensations, except of fear itself. Fear is really just a “security system” trying to protect the idea of “self.” And easy to see through the ploy, should it arise.
From awakening stories.....


Tell me more about your experience with these awakening stories. What appealed to you? What would you change? We want to rout out all assumptions that would keep you from clear seeing!

Lib

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Re: please lead me through the Gate

Postby well » Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:30 pm

Hello Lib,

I wrote a long answer but I can't find it - was it not correctly saved perhaps? Or do I have to wait for it to turn up?
Please let me know, if it has been deleted - I'll write again.

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Re: please lead me through the Gate

Postby well » Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:48 pm

OK, as this is showing up and the other one not, I can as welll just start rewriting it ... grrrr ... as I thought through a lot of things, perhaps I can keep it shorter, that will at least be a benefit for you ! :)

expectations:
My expectations of myself (making a difference, being there for others, harm noone) stand in my way of seeing things as they are.

ordinary and natural ways of change are my preferred ones. I like gliding and flowing, not exploding.

there are no permanent sensations.

feeling things as myself - if I'm closely looking and open for the wake of associations/memories that things pull behind them, intimacy arises.

I want to arrive at a position where the search stops, but I don't need fireworks, earthquakes and the like.

If it's all too short, I will elaborate later!
Thanks!
Ilka

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Lib
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Re: please lead me through the Gate

Postby Lib » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:56 pm

Sometimes the posts are lost when the forum times out. It’s a good idea to type a longer post on a separate word processing program, then copy and paste it in. That way you’ll have it saved should you lose it. Or you can copy and wait to paste until you are sure it hasn’t timed out.

Also, it is helpful to use the quote function. Just copy and paste the sentence you want to quote into your post, then highlight it and push “quote.”
Ordinary and natural ways of change are my preferred ones. I like gliding and flowing, not exploding.
Initially, the changes can seem dramatic or barely noticed, but the important thing to grasp is that once seen life proceeds in a ordinary fashion, it is just noticed that everything continues to rise on it’s own and no separate self is needed to change, control or possess experience.
I want to arrive at a position where the search stops...
The search will stop. This is a realistic expectation.

If there is more to say about your expectations before we move on by all means do so. It is okay to elaborate. It helps to see where you are. There are no wrong answers, just answers that will move you in a direction. It's a bit like a maze, and I am positioned where I can see the end but can't tell you how to get there, only if you have made a wrong turn.

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Re: please lead me through the Gate

Postby well » Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:32 pm

Hi Lib,
Any thought (feeling) can arise, including “buying into separation.” It is a habit of the mind.
Does this mean I'll still feel separate afterwards? And if so, will it be easier to quit that sensation? Will I be aware that it is only a thought?
If there is more to say about your expectations before we move on by all means do so.
I think that enough has been said about possible expectations - as I've been thinking about the topic some hours ago (only it didn't get saved). Anyhow, if something gets in my mind, I'll surely write it down! I'm not here to keep secrets, but to enable you to guide me with as much useful information as possible. I take your questions as guide, in which direction to look.
It helps to see where you are.
Where am I? Is there an I? You see, I've seen the introductory videos with great pleasure, and I fully admit that they make sense. I'm feeling like 'Of course, there is no I! It has to be a thought! And I don't need an I, it feels better without! Without an I, I don't even bother if the whole world makes sense or not, I don't bother if I awake or not, I don't bother if there is any logic in my thoughts, I don't bother about anything any more! Who would be there to feel obliged to think and make sense of anything? No one! This feels free! It feels so good, I'm not even interested in investigating the question if I am allowed to let go of the I, because I'm afraid someone could tell me: 'No, it's not allowed, you MUST live with an I!' But there is still a notion that perhaps I missed something or got something wrong. So I'm ready to be shown more directions to look at!!!

This describes the position where I am.

Please help me go on!

Thanks,
Well

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Re: please lead me through the Gate

Postby well » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:31 am

Hello Lib,

I'm trying to give you some more material.
On Larry's thread I read:
Is anything permanent – if so what?
This made me think. It seems to me that I have the choice to give two answers: one is 'there is nothing permanent at all, I can't know if even life is permanent' and the other one goes: 'all appearances are impermanent, the only permanent 'thing' is where they appear, meaning something like awareness'. I like the first answer more. The second one can be felt as true, but only after diving into all those meanings = thoughts and connected feelings. The first one feels immediately true without any diving. It feels free and safe, because as soon as there is nothing to hold on, there can no longer be on-holding. Freedom is there. I feel really comfortable without anything permanent. (Ok, if there is nothing permanent, then change is permanent, but that's just a paradox which proves the truth of the former statement.)

What I first wrote in my application is not true at present – I don't long for identification with the source any more, I don't want to be more joyful and loving any more. This is another proof that things change. But there is still the 'I' in it, you see? Also this is full of 'I':
Without an I, I don't even bother if the whole world makes sense or not, I don't bother if I awake or not, I don't bother if there is any logic in my thoughts, I don't bother about anything any more!
It could be put like that: 'Without an I, there is no bothering if the whole world makes sense or not …', then the I is dismissed … but is it true dismission or is it only a good advaita slang skill?
Does thinking require a thinker or is it just thinking?
(from the gatecrashers book)
Thinking makes me feel identified, I'm afraid. In this analytical process of trying to figure out thoughts/sensations/feelings, there is a strong sensation of doing. OK, doing takes place, but this is not a proof of a doer! Great! So doing is no longer exhausting, because there's no one to be exhausted...? So there's nothing wrong with analytical thinking! There's nothing wrong with anything!
The first one feels immediately true without any diving.
(from above)
...but this is about looking deeply. Quick answers can come from the mind. So there is a deeper look:
there is nothing permanent at all, I can't know if even life is permanent
put in other words (without an 'I' in it) is:
there is nothing permanent at all, even life isn't permanent
is that also true? It does not sound as true as ''there is nothing permanent at all, only life is permanent'

Does this lead anywhere? Does it have to? No. There's no lead necessary, because there is noone to be lead. Life doesn't lead itself anywhere, it just happens.

Looking forward for your pointing!
Well

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Re: please lead me through the Gate

Postby Lib » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:51 am

Hi, just noticed your second post. Let me respond to the first and then I will take time to read it.

Great responses! You are looking at things carefully.
Does this mean I'll still feel separate afterwards?
Let’s look and see. Take the thought, “I feel separate.” You’ve noticed that it is a sensation and a thought. Gut! Can a sensation feel separation? Can a sensation feel anything? Can a sensation be connected or separate from anything? Can a thought? Look and see. If you expect not to experience arising feelings, including “I feel separate,” and then you do, what will that imply?
I'm feeling like 'Of course, there is no I! It has to be a thought! And I don't need an I, it feels better without! Without an I, I don't even bother if the whole world makes sense or not, I don't bother if I awake or not, I don't bother if there is any logic in my thoughts, I don't bother about anything any more! Who would be there to feel obliged to think and make sense of anything? No one! This feels free! It feels so good, I'm not even interested in investigating the question if I am allowed to let go of the I, because I'm afraid someone could tell me: 'No, it's not allowed, you MUST live with an I!' But there is still a notion that perhaps I missed something or got something wrong. So I'm ready to be shown more directions to look at!!!
Great to see this! Let’s just play with this awhile and confirm your good noticing through direct experience only - that is, what is experienced in the here and now, in this moment. Direct Experience (DE) is the experience of something that has not been interpreted or mediated by something or someone else. We focus on sensation - seeing, hearing, tasting, touching and smelling - before thinking about it or labeling the experience. When thought comes in, let it just go on by.

Just simple looking, like a baby watches. Or a cat watching a mouse hole. Alert noticing.

Let’s practice life with an “I” and without an I. First look around and describe in detail what is arising in your experience, right at this moment, using the words “I” and “me.” (My hands are moving on the typewriter, my arms are heavy on the table, etc.) Do this for 10 minutes, or however long you want - noticing sensations - what is happening in the body.

Then for another 10 minutes or so describe what is happening in the moment using only VERBS, without and “I” or a “me.” (Waiting for the next thought, hearing the ceiling fan, etc.)

Look at the thoughts that start with an “I.” Are most thoughts about you? What is the function of the “I”? What role is it playing? Describe this as clearly as you can.

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Re: please lead me through the Gate

Postby Lib » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:05 am

I will respond further on your second post in a bit but you will be answering all of your own questions by this process of "looking" or direct experience. The loping will clear things up nicely.

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Re: please lead me through the Gate

Postby Lib » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:06 am

Make that "looking" rather than loping! It's still the wee hours here!

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Re: please lead me through the Gate

Postby Lib » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:41 pm

Well, I will wait for your response to the exercise before responding. They will all tie in together.

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Re: please lead me through the Gate

Postby well » Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:18 pm

Hi Lib,

thanks for staying in touch! Things are changing so quickly, that the things I wrote before seem always out-dated. And perhaps this is like it always is, but wasn't noticed.
Can a sensation feel separation? Can a sensation feel anything? Can a sensation be connected or separate from anything? Can a thought? Look and see.
Sensations can't do anything, they can only get experienced. In being experienced / in appearing, they display their being love in a clear or not so clear manner. By the way they resonate with the underlying love.

Ok, I sit here on my bed, and as I'm a bit bent forward, I feel something in my hip that wants relaxation. My left hand is warm, as the sun is shining on it, my right hand is cold, as it is shadowed. There is a soft tone of the PC harddrive. It is nearly beneath hearing, because the keys clap as I write. From the other room I hear the tv set and some noises from movements on a chair. They are not too loud, they make themselves noticed only after a while. My feet are a bit cold. I'm chnaging my sitting position. My position is now more upright, foot under the blanket but still cold. I move for a second time to improve my posture. These movements are a bit like shaking something into the right position, for example a cushion. The sunlight now shines into my eyes and blinds them a bit. I see green patches on the screen. The patches move slightly downwards. The keys on the keyboard – no, some keys on the keyboard beam with reflecting sunlight, very bright. This reminds me of the eternal light often spoken about, and a small shift in consciousness results. I can feel my heart beat slowly and softly. My bottom still feels uncomfortable, but I overfeel that mostly. My foot is still cold. I'm looking at the watch. 2 Minutes to go. I think about: did I write as I was supposed to? Perhaps too few 'I's and 'me's? Don't care. Done.

Gerunds now! Having a look at the watch again, memorizing the minutes (58), moving my butt, seeing the sunlight blind me, seeing the green patches on the screen, finding things funny, feeling the butt, feeling the cold foot, hammering the fingers on the keys, hearing my voice saying something, sounding metallic, scratching my head, feeling on the head slowly fades, feeling under the fingernails, too, other side of the head itching, feeling from scratching fading, feeling on fingertips fading, ignoring the next itching for no longer wanting to serve it, scratching under my nose, feeling my chin, noticing that there are many 'my's, watching the leaves swinging in the wind, delightful green, nicely shimmering leaves, nose itching, finger scratching, the far away tree is seen as a whole, the near tree is not, still 5 minutes to go, loooking around, thinking the room is quite full of things, feeling happy, having to smile, changing posture, rubbing nose, watching the cables hanging from the table in an elegant way, the sandal nicely, intimately standing on it as if being a child that's wanting to walk towards me, 2 minutes to go, moving the legs, avoiding to write 'my legs', being curious what for, being curious if this is going to end in an artificial way of speaking to support the loss of the I illusion or what, not yet done, cheating and just writing anything without looking, done
Look at the thoughts that start with an “I.” Are most thoughts about you? What is the function of the “I”? What role is it playing? Describe this as clearly as you can.
Oh, that's interesting! The 'I's are about: my body, my thoughts, my feelings, my sensations. Obviously the I's function is to claim ownership to this body, these thoughts, these feelings, these sensations. And it works as a glue in the sense that it puts together all these fragments to the feeling of being a person. It not only puts them together, but it integrates them, so that they seem to belong not only to the person, but also to each other.

More questions?


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