I kindly request Ilona or Elsa to guide me through

[jeronimo]

I'm having a fascinating experience that feels very much like I'm standing right there, ready to walk through.

I have a long history of DIY enlightenment, so to speak. I'm not a member of any religion or organized thing, though I've studied quite a lot. I've worked for many years releasing patterns and identification with "me." I found my way to your work this past week and am much of the way through the Gateless Gatecrashers.

I'm very happy and quite astonished to see so many success stories with so simple a process. I have worked with a similar process over the years, which has truly brought me to a wonderful state in life. But...while I understand and don't feel resistance to me as a fiction, I'm still not through.

I've felt a dramatic shift while reading the book and even had a fever for two days, which felt like somehow burning away layers of delusion. It wasn't unpleasant at all.

I'm feeling ready to step through.

Gratitude in advance.

[Xain]

Hi Jeronimo

I have been in touch with Ilona and Elena - Both are very busy guiding other people at the moment, but I am willing to guide you should you wish.

I'm very happy and quite astonished to see so many success stories with so simple a process.

Yes, it is a very simple process. It is essentially an extension of a person's own 'self enquiry' but guided to look in specific areas (coupled with suggestions which might make the realisation easier).

If you would like to continue with me, can I ask what it is exactly that you seek?
What would it mean? Do you have any expectations?

Xain ♥

[jeronimo]

Hi Xian

Thank you. Before we get started, could you let me know of its possible to wait for Ilona or Elena. I only ask because from reading Gatecrashers, I feel like I "know" them and their style and ability to guide.

I am also open to whatever is right. My ego wants to be sure I'll get it right ;)

Jeremy

[Xain]

Hi Jeremy

Sure - I will ensure Ilona and Elena know, and they will contact you if they have a space in their schedule.

All the best
Xain ♥

[jeronimo]

Thanks, Xian!

Much appreciative of the work you are all doing.

In Gratitude

Jeremy

[jeronimo]

oops ... i realize I've been calling you Xian, not Xain.
Apologies, Xain
:)

[Xain]

Directly from Ilona:

'Say hello from me to him and that I'm very busy at the moment. Also add that he does not need a guide, he just needs to look, for himself, by himself, for the love of truth.'

Xain ♥

[jeronimo]

Thanks, Xain :)

I'm looking. And will continue...

I'll be here looking if/when she gets some space. I appreciate your attentiveness and care, Xain.

Jeremy

[jeronimo]

Hi

Just a quick post to say I'm still here :)

Jeremy

[Xain]

Hi Jeremy

Thanks for hanging in there, and sorry for the large delay.
I have a gap in my guiding now and some free time to devote to you.
I am happy to continue with you if you are OK with this.

Let's do this! :-)

I'm very happy and quite astonished to see so many success stories with so simple a process. I have worked with a similar process over the years, which has truly brought me to a wonderful state in life. But...while I understand and don't feel resistance to me as a fiction, I'm still not through.

It is indeed a very simple process. What may happen is that the mind and thoughts turn it into something far more complicated than it needs to be, and this is where problems arise.

Let's begin with just some general stuff.

What is it exactly that you are looking to realise here with me?
What would it mean (to you)?
What do you expect to happen or change?

Xain ♥

[jeronimo]

Hi Xain

First let me say thank you for offering to guide me. I appreciate your attention and am glad we're getting on with it!
We can dive right in..

What is it exactly that you are looking to realise here with me?

I am looking to realize the truth. I would like to experience what comes with seeing through the illusion of self.

What would it mean (to you)?

It would mean everything. The end of wondering, seeking, being unsure. I could stop spending so much time and effort working to maintain a state of equilibrium and presence and simply just be the experience.

What do you expect to happen or change?

After everything I've read here and in GG, I understand that not much will change. Yet I do still have hopes... if not expectations. I'm hoping for relief from suffering. The suffering that comes from feeling trapped. Trapped in what? Maybe trapped in a body, in a life... In a character? I want to know the truth and expect that this change will shift my perception in a way that establishes a new sense of clarity. Or rather, an experience of true freedom. I'm looking to be free from the shackles of wanting, striving, and pursuing.

In general, I have had wonderful experiences that felt like realizations.. but they don't fully stick. I still get caught for long periods in doubt, fear, and sometimes a general malaise about what this whole life thing is about. I have good tools that have led me to adopt the belief of no-self as valid... and that always feels good and freeing. But it definitely feels like the level of belief.

I really want to see what seeing really is!

In Gratitude

Jeremy

[Xain]

Ok, Jeremy.

I would like to experience what comes with seeing through the illusion of self.

Ok. What would it mean if there was nothing to experience?
Are you looking for a specific 'experience' or to realise something?

It would mean everything. The end of wondering, seeking, being unsure

Certainly, it would mean the end of seeking and we are definately interested in 100% clarity here.

I could stop spending so much time and effort working to maintain a state of equilibrium and presence and simply just be the experience.

Notice in this sentence there is a subtle belief. The belief that there is currently a 'you' that is maintaining a state, and this will then change in some way. Maybe that you will no longer maintain this state.
The approach here at LU is that there never has been an 'I', (a 'you'), a seperate self doing anything. Just the idea that one has been doing something. It's just been an idea all along.
This will be realised.
When this is realised, it will also be realised that there is no 'I', no seperate self that will then 'live in a certain way' or 'be the experience'. That would just be another idea appearing.

After everything I've read here and in GG, I understand that not much will change.

That is a down-to-earth statement. Good. It is wise to keep your feet on the ground.

My guiding will be aiming for one thing, and only one thing.
That is to realise that 'I', this seperate self, person, body/mind that you have taken yourself to be is just an idea - A thought. Something created 'in the mind'. It has been all along.
Is this what you seek?

Many come here with grand ideas of 'bliss', 'enlightenment' or 'becoming someone special' - This is not what this is about at all. Indeed, it could be said that it is the LOSS of something rather than the gaining.

I'm hoping for relief from suffering.

Relief from suffering MAY come as a by-product, when it is realised that the sufferer is just a thought - An idea.

I have good tools that have led me to adopt the belief of no-self as valid... and that always feels good and freeing. But it definitely feels like the level of belief.

These tools sound good, and may be an excellent grounding for my guiding with you.

Here are a few guidelines which will assist us both in our conversation.

1. Please post at least once a day, if you cannot post, or need more time, let me know.
2. Be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.
3. Answer from direct personal experience only (we can go into this in more depth later if needed).
4. Read the disclaimer on the Liberation Unleashed main site -> http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

I see you know how to use the QUOTE function - Good - This makes the conversation easier to read.

Do you have any further questions before continuing?

Xain ♥

[jeronimo]

What would it mean if there was nothing to experience?

Ahhh... freedom. Just reading that feels light. Of course, it would mean nothing.

Are you looking for a specific 'experience' or to realise something?

Definitely not a specific experience, no.

I'm looking to realize the self as a thought. Not really even sure what "realize" means. I'll see when I see.

Of course, there are all sorts of ideas what this might be like ... what it might feel like... which is why I used the word "experience." I also know that everything "I" think are just thoughts.

So, no, I am not looking to find anything. I'm looking to see through the illusion of self.

I understand the concept... that there will no longer be the experience of an experiencer... so therefore nothing to experience.

I could stop spending so much time and effort working to maintain a state of equilibrium and presence and simply just be the experience.

Notice in this sentence there is a subtle belief. The belief that there is currently a 'you' that is maintaining a state, and this will then change in some way. Maybe that you will no longer maintain this state.

Yes, I notice that. The thought that comes is of the maintainer disappearing. And I'm clear that there is no maintainer/controller to disappear, but that is not "seen" as of yet.

My guiding will be aiming for one thing, and only one thing.
That is to realise that 'I', this seperate self, person, body/mind that you have taken yourself to be is just an idea - A thought. Something created 'in the mind'. It has been all along.
Is this what you seek?

YES.

Here are a few guidelines which will assist us both in our conversation.

1. Please post at least once a day, if you cannot post, or need more time, let me know.
2. Be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.
3. Answer from direct personal experience only (we can go into this in more depth later if needed).
4. Read the disclaimer on the Liberation Unleashed main site -> http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

1. No problem. I am in California, so I think we have a bit of time between us.
2. Will do.
3. Yes... been working on that while reading other threads and GG.
4. I am ready and wiling and have no desire to be put in the airlock and launched into space ;)

Do you have any further questions before continuing?

Nope... let's go!

[Xain]

I like your style. :-)
Ok.

First off, we need to establish what you believe you are.
At this stage, please try to put intellectual analysis to one side - Also, put to one side any non-duality concepts and ideas. Approach this very basically and simply from what you really believe.

Right now, are you sitting or laying down and seeing a screen in front of you and reading words off it?
Simple as that really - Yes or No.

How about some other considerations . . .

Do you have control over your life?
Do you have control over your body?
The body that appears there right now, is it 'you'?
Does the body see, hear, feel etc? (So in essence YOU see, hear and feel - You experience the world).
Do you choose what to think? Do the thoughts control your actions?

Throw any other ideas in the pot if you feel the need.
What does the word 'I' mean or point to?

Xain ♥

[jeronimo]

Right now, are you sitting or laying down and seeing a screen in front of you and reading words off it?
Simple as that really - Yes or No.

Simple, eh? If we were chatting on the phone, not engaged in this particular discussion, and you asked me this question, I would say that I am sitting on the couch, looking at my computer screen and reading words off of it… yes.

But… as this inquiry into who “I” am is not new, I understand that “I” am nowhere to be found. There is a body, there is a computer screen, there is typing.

There is thinking about how to stand in the middle of these two notions … one that I am here doing this stuff and the other that stuff is happening.

This seems to imply that I am trying to figure out how I can be and not be at the same time.

I guess, short answer, is yes.

Do you have control over your life?

What I truly believe is no. I’d say that this belief is relatively new. I’ve experienced over the past year or so a bit of effort and effortlessness. Effort feels like pushing something. That’s what it feels like when I believe that I have control over my life. When I realize that I have no control, things happen effortlessly.

So, currently I (the one who doesn’t exist) believes the answer is no. But as I’d like to make clear, I don’t think that I “see” (with 100% clarity) this as being true. It’s a belief right now.

Do you have control over your body?

I’ve been observing this recently and I would say no, I don’t have control over my body. But it does seem that “I” do things intentionally… like go to work, rush to the train, etc. Maybe “I” decide to run to catch a train or “I” decide it’s ok to wait for the next one.

And just to keep confusing the picture... if I look at those situations, thoughts happened and actions happened and running to the train or waiting for the next one happened. Not clear where the controller could be found.

The body that appears there right now, is it ‘you’?

Sigh. I know it’s not me. And there is more clarity to this realization now than a few weeks ago. I sigh because this is still a part of this limbo syndrome. I feel like I know this… the body is not me… and yet, it still appears to be “mine.”

Does the body see, hear, feel etc? (So in essence YOU see, hear and feel - You experience the world).

No, the body doesn’t “do” any of that stuff. I would say that it’s a medium for seeing, hearing, feeling. But, of course, that implies that someone is seeing, hearing, and feeling. Thoughts tell me that it is me who is doing this stuff. And I understand my thoughts are just thoughts.. not true.

--- when I say "I understand" and "I know.." is this intellectual analysis?

Do you choose what to think? Do the thoughts control your actions?

I most definitely do not choose what to think. The thoughts, when paid attention to, seem to have influence over what happens next - feelings in the body, an impulse to do something, etc. Yet, when really looked at, thoughts don’t control my actions. Thoughts happen and actions happen and they don’t always relate to each other.

It appears that “I” am able to, at times, direct the inquiry for more thoughts to appear. But I have to say that even that has become less recently… sometimes so much so that I wonder if it’s a mental issue (losing control of my mind) or a true dropping of this controlling thought.

What does the word 'I' mean or point to?

It points to a set of behaviors, history, actions, achievements, losses, etc. that people call Jeremy. When looked for, it is not found. When I look, the whole set of things breaks apart and there is nothing really there. And yet, Jeremy still has an identity that helps him play his character in the world.

“I” is a label that creates the illusion of individuality, self, separateness (I think I may have strayed into intellectual analysis). And this is known, but not seen with clarity.

Throw any other ideas in the pot if you feel the need.

Just maybe to expand on this notion of being in limbo. A feeling of being neither here nor there. Sort of like a flickering light. The awareness of no-self is palpable and yet there is the feeling or thought that it is I who has such awareness.

And then there are the moments when it feels like “I” might actually disappear. In the past… especially when I ventured with psychedelics… this feeling of disappearing would scare me and cause a contraction back into me… into the I.

It’s a state that feels like if the I is dropped, let go, realized to be false … then either madness or death would occur. There are whiffs of that still around that are unsettling.

Unsettling to whom? Good question ;)

Many thanks to you, Xain.