Guide available here

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Bezuda
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Guide available here

Postby Bezuda » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:24 pm

Are you ready?

Reply so we can start.

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garybeale
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Re: Guide available here

Postby garybeale » Sat Jun 14, 2014 11:27 am

Hi Bezuda, many thanks for your time. I'm sorely in need of guidance, or something anyway. Tell me what you need and I shall give it. As a very short back story, after spending years following my spiritual nose I read Gateless Gatecrashers. I struggled with the notion of no I for a couple of weeks. I just couldn't get past it. When I looked inside, there was a sort of 'me' presence there. Then, on Sunday last, one hour before the end of my last shift for a well known supermarket, whilst carrying a TV past the clothing dept, something sort of moved. Having struggled with the idea of no I, I decided to go back to Eckhart Tolle and try and just be. Couldn't do it. Tried and tried. Then looking at why I couldn't be, what was stopping it, something said "you can never just be, there is no you to be, there is just being". And there was a sort of shift, a slip, or something and then there was just being. There was out loud laughing and then tears, all just happening. There was a need to get away but there were customers to deal with. Everything is indeed different but it is still exactly the same. I need help with what is going on now, or should I say, there is help/guidance needed. There is most definitely not a blissful or peaceful feeling, although there are odd moments. Please help.

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Bezuda
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Re: Guide available here

Postby Bezuda » Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:42 pm

ok, great. Tell me, is there an 'I' , 'self'? What is it ?

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garybeale
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Re: Guide available here

Postby garybeale » Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:01 pm

As far as I can tell, there is no me/I here. Never was never will be.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

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garybeale
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Re: Guide available here

Postby garybeale » Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:17 pm

What is self? Self seems to be a fiction created by the mind. It takes events, objects and people that it comes across and that it links to in its memory and ascribes an I/me/mine to them. Any feelings that come up are also identified with this self, as in I am angry, as opposed to there is anger. An example: the day after the 'shift' that I mentioned, I was admitted to hospital in a lot of pain. Whilst lying on the gurney, my mind wanted to note the pain 'I' was in. But I wasn't in pain because I wasn't there. There was pain, no me, no self. It made me smile at the time which must have looked odd, given the circumstances.

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Bezuda
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Re: Guide available here

Postby Bezuda » Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:37 pm

Good.

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

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garybeale
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Re: Guide available here

Postby garybeale » Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:01 pm

Hi Bezuda,

Thank you so much for helping me with this. I'm very grateful.

After looking very hard I can find no self. No I, no me, no self. But, if I can find no me or self, what is it that looks? The only answer that pops up is that nothing looks. There is nothing to look. Looking happens. And looking finds no evidence of self. Looking deeper it seems that there never was a self. Just the illusion of self. A mind made fiction that caused untold suffering to a fictional character called gary.

As an added bonus it seems that ego is an illusion also. I hadn't counted on that. But again, I can find no evidence for the existence of ego as a reality. Just a bunch of thoughts.

I had intended to question the notion that I could not control my thoughts. After all, I could stop thinking for a good ten minutes at a time. But even as I framed the question in my mind I realised that I couldn't be controlling my mind, because there is no I there to do so. So it must mean that the mind just thought it wasn't thinking. I think.

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Bezuda
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Re: Guide available here

Postby Bezuda » Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:53 am

That's right there is no self and there is no ego.

What does feel like to control the mind? Where does thoughts come from?

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garybeale
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Re: Guide available here

Postby garybeale » Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:23 pm

OK, a tricky one this. Firstly I'm not sure that 'controlling' is the correct word. There are different states. There is the state where there is just being and no thoughts arise, a state of 'no thought' if you like. This can last from a few seconds to at most for me about 10 minutes. Then there is then usual state where there are thoughts arising all the time, seemingly at random, although sights and sounds etc can trigger a sequence. I don't know where they come from, they just do. The mind I suppose. This has intensified enormously since last Sunday.

There is another variation of this where I am meditating on a mantra, internally spoken, not out loud, so that the mantra is consciously repeated mentally, but other thoughts arise alongside it, so there is the mantra and random thoughts occurring simultaneously. Again, I can only guess that this is from the mind.

Lastly, there are the conscious thoughts. Thoughts created deliberately. At a young age I created a whole world in my head where I could go when I felt it necessary. Where I could speak to guides, mentors, historical figures etc. Where I could laze on my mental beach as it were. I never believed that I was ACTUALLY speaking to other people, more that I was speaking to my idea of them. Who or what does this I can only assume again is the mind. A sort of mind self therapy if you like.

Previously I would have said it was me, my self. Now, I cannot say that.

There is a bit of confusion though. Did you ever see those pictures where, depending HOW you look you can see one of two images. The one that comes to mind is the old lady/young lady image. Well that is what I am now experiencing with self/no self. I can see it both ways. I can't unsee the no-self, but I can still see the self at times.

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Bezuda
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Re: Guide available here

Postby Bezuda » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:43 pm

Ya, that's right, you can't control the mind. I just asked that to see what you would answer.

What do you mean by 'I can see the self at times' ?

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garybeale
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Re: Guide available here

Postby garybeale » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:58 pm

Well, when I look, there is no me. Not a problem. But, there are moments where there is a feeling of self, but when I look there's nothing there. It's a bit like sensing movement in the corner of your eye but when you look there's nothing moving. Nothing can be seen, but there is an eerie sense of there having been something there. Maybe its the mind trying to latch on to previous habits or something, I don't know, but it is an odd feeling. Disconcerting.

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Bezuda
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Re: Guide available here

Postby Bezuda » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:15 pm

can you find out who this sense of self belong to?

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garybeale
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Re: Guide available here

Postby garybeale » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:19 am

I think it's my brothers.. ☺no, only kidding. When I look its not there. There is no self. In fact I haven't had the sensation at all today, so maybe it was a sort of mind after image or something. I just drove down to Bournemouth (UK) this evening, three hours in the car. No self at all and the mind was so quiet. It was beautiful.

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Bezuda
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Re: Guide available here

Postby Bezuda » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:59 am

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

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garybeale
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Re: Guide available here

Postby garybeale » Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:26 pm

"What is the illusion of separate self, in detail?"

That's a really easy question to answer if you don't have to use words. So, the mind at a certain age, probably very young, about twoish, starts labelling things and claiming them as it's own, as "mine". This word the child learns from it's parents, as it does the words "I" and "me" at about the same age. This then becomes a habit, so that eventually, the words I/Me/Mine, instead of just being thoughts about things or feelings etc assume an identity, and the illusion of a separate self is born. It's probably no accident that the development of the illusory self is accompanied by extreme rage and suffering, the so-called terrible two's. The ego is born at the same time...

This is very difficult...

I've just spent the last hour answering the wrong question...

So it starts at about two or three years of age.

The illusion of the separate self is just thought. erm.... The illusion is created when the mind uses the term I/me/mine so habitually that the thought "I" actually appears to become a separate entity. Thereafter all thoughts related to the body and mind of this character are imbued with this sense of self, which is really just a thought or a clump of thoughts. When one looks hard into these thoughts they just turn into smoke and mirrors. My current experience is that the mind wants to continue with this idea of a separate self, after all, it's been doing it for the last 54 years, but there is nothing for it to use, no illusory self, so the thoughts are just that, thoughts.

There is frustration here now at not being able to find the right words. There is seeing it. It can be seen in my head but there are no words there to describe it. There is mind which pops up with all sorts of rubbish, some relevant but most not. There is a core of quiet, a deep sort of rock-like calm at the centre, where the illusion of I used to sit. The mind flows over it, the core, but doesn't impact it, doesn't affect it. There is seeing the results of the mind's conclusions, there is letting what is not needed just flow past. A bit like a rock in a stream. There is using the mind to direct a query, and letting whatever else arises go on past.

I've got to sleep. I'll try again tomorrow.


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