I am ready...

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iamsource
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I am ready...

Postby iamsource » Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:15 am

to go through the gate officially.

I have been living in the present (as much as possible before realising what it was I was doing exactly) for at least 3 years. I know I am a little part of source however, I have still been living in the sea of contrast which is the mind believing I WAS the mind but also believing I was source. Just disconnected and was constantly trying to bridge the gap between my mind and source.

However, as much as I have been somewhat successful in BEING maybe 70 per cent of my day. It always took a lot of effort/processes/practice/meditating etc... And, I was still dragged back along in the sea of contrast and forgot who I was again at certain times of the day.

I then reached an epiphany. This happened because I was SICK of obsessional thoughts and worry about nonsense quite frankly. I asked HOW... HOW can I stop these thoughts Source? Where are they from? Why can't I control my mind (aka myself) and I was inspired to search for answers. I found articles, books and videos on practising mindfullness which led me to the discovery of what I'd seen pointers to all along. I AM NOT MY MIND. I am the observer of my mind. Just discovering this simple but freeing fact as changed my life. I want to make it official and I want to know more!

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Bill
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Re: I am ready...

Postby Bill » Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:06 pm

Hello iamsource.

Glad you're here.... thanks for the intro on what you've been up to..
Sounds like you are very close. Maybe I can help with some pointed questions for you.

A few bits of housekeeping before we get started..
Please take a look at the intro page of LU here, it contains our disclaimer and a short video too.
Watch it if you have a few minutes. It describes what we call 'looking' which is key.

http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

Some guidelines that I would like your agreement on:

1) Agree to post daily or near daily, email if you are not able.

2) Please set aside any other spiritual practices during this inquiry. Instead commit at this time, like you would for a meditation practice, to begin looking for this separate self, this "I"

3) I will ask questions and you answer.... listen very closely to the answers that arise in you.
Answer to the very best of your ability at that time.

4) If you do agree to the above....please share all of what your expectations are to see through the illusion of the separate self, and if there are any concerns/fears about that?

If you could confirm you have seen all the above and are in agreement, we can go ahead and get started.

Bill

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iamsource
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Re: I am ready...

Postby iamsource » Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:36 pm

Hi Bill,

Thanks for your reply! I've read the intro page and watched the video. (Took a while to be able to post so I've read the pdf book also :D)

1) I agree to post daily

2) I cannot find the "I" except for the part of me that is aware of this sea of contrast I called "I" but sure I can take another look lol

3) I will answer your questions.

4) I agree to all of the above. I have no fear whatsoever, I already know this to be true. I've known I was source for a long time but thought the mind was a mediator in a sense. I thought that life was the contrast which caused my mind to think (and that within my mind I already had set beliefs from childhood which skewed my perspective). I then learned that it was my mind that was the contrast. My mind was out of control and a never ending stream that could at best be tamed with processes. Which in turn soothed my vibration enough to be connected to source. And, this was my neverending everyday battle. To connect to Source. I want to give up that battle and just be. If this makes sense.

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Re: I am ready...

Postby Bill » Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:49 pm

I've known I was source for a long time but thought the mind was a mediator in a sense. I thought that life was the contrast which caused my mind to think (and that within my mind I already had set beliefs from childhood which skewed my perspective). I then learned that it was my mind that was the contrast. My mind was out of control and a never ending stream that could at best be tamed with processes. Which in turn soothed my vibration enough to be connected to source. And, this was my neverending everyday battle. To connect to Source.
Im going to be asking you questions about what you wrote above as we go along.
I ask you to keep an open mind and be willing to question everything you are dead certain of.

I'm on the west coast of the US, early AM here now. What is your time zone?
Take your time on this as I won't get back to this till later today.
What do you want me to call you? iamsource or is there another name?

The first question is this.....
What is your response... What is your reaction when I say that the you that you think you are is not real?
That there is no I in real life, none.... zero... It can't be found.
There is no entity.
Nothing. Just life.

What comes up for you?
Feelings, thoughts, reactions, sensations.... list all and any that come for you.

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Re: I am ready...

Postby iamsource » Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:35 pm

Great. I'm in the UK, it's early PM here. I work from home, so can pop back anytime. You can call me Claire if you'd like.

In answer to your question, it makes a lot of sense to me that who I call "me" is not real - since I have always found myself to be inconsistent and never truly been able to say there... that is me. Sure, here are my ideas, I am pretty good at this, that and the other. But the actual self... I thought was lost. So to hear that it was never there in the first place seems logical :D

I feel relief, a kind of freedom, peaceful but at the same time it feels a little alien. The "me" I think/thought was me has a lot of questions, like "well what am I then?" and "who put me here?" I don't think it likes very much the idea that it's not real. Since I've been practising mindfulness, I'm able to observe it rather than allow myself to feel moved by it one way or the other. If I hadn't learnt that skill, I'd certainly be anxious about the unknown right now.

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iamsource
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Re: I am ready...

Postby iamsource » Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:44 pm

Ok so since I paid attention to the thoughts... I've been feeling the emotions the thoughts cause :/ Previous to the discovery that I wasn't my thoughts, I'd been micro managing them so well that like I said in the opening post, the majority of the day I felt great emotions by only allowing myself to think positive thoughts. So since now I'm allowing myself to examine them, well I'm allowing myself to feel them also.

Anyway, I guess this will help in the long run and there really isn't any other way. Except, continuing on trying to wrestle my thoughts to the ground and kill them every hour or so for the rest of my life and the truth is I can't. I'm exhausted mentally.

So how do I really feel knowing that there is no self? I feel worried that life won't be as enjoyable since it's not about "me" anymore. I also feel guilty because I have been hell bent on teaching my 9 year old daughter how to also micro manage good vibrations and it seems I've been doing it wrong. There is relief in that I don't actually have to do anything at all but allow life to be but it doesn't half feel weird. I'm walking around my house at the moment like I'm a guest lol. I have another friend that has been on the same journey as me, we consider ourselves co-creators, I haven't even dare to begin explain my latest findings to her. I feel partially insane.

Sorry for rambling. You did ask... >.<

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Bill
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Re: I am ready...

Postby Bill » Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:11 am

Hello Claire,

Yes that is really tough micro managing all those thoughts!
Exhausting probably..
We've been told that's what's needed to be happy... successful, under control.
Thoughts are key in what we'll be looking at.

I notice you've listed a few fears and worries.. if anything comes up for you
as we're doing this please bring it up. Try not to push it away or get rid of it...
let it come to be looked at.

OK, so you've brought up a lot of feelings in your first answer. Worried, guilty, relief,
exhausted, peaceful.... a little bit of everything. I like your honesty and this is
exactly what will work here. Just know there are no right answers... just your honest ones at the time.
These let me know where you really are and then we go from there.
They (your answers) needn't be long, unless they need to be.

Since thoughts are so prominent (and active) lets take a closer look at your thoughts..
Now I know you've been studying this for and 'know' all the right answers.
Let instead come out what truly comes up for you in your direct experience.

Take your time with these and try your best to use the 'looking' method described in the video.
I find its helpful for people to watch that a few times when starting as its very helpful.
We want to 'look' in a way that we might call pure perception, although that's never really obtainable.
By 'looking' I'm not talking about understanding either.

Can you look carefully and tell me where thoughts arise, for you?
Can you see a point of origin, in reality?

Looking at the thoughts, do they all start out with an I attached,
or does the I attach to the thought somewhere?
In other words, are they all about you?

Look at your computer.
Is it more right to say:
it is A computer?
or it's MY computer?

Can you attach a computer to a self?
If so, how do we do it?
How do we possess something?
What is the process to possess something?


**************************************

Forgot this in the opening post.. I do recommend one companion reading along with
your dialogue. That is the 'Gateless Gatecrashers' book. It's in pdf form here
http://www.liberationunleashed.com/PDF/ ... ashers.pdf
and will be helpful to read one story (or more) a day as we go along.

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Re: I am ready...

Postby iamsource » Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:26 am

Thanks Bill. Just watched the video again. I've also been doing the mentally noting for a while so I can switch to looking quite well. So let's do this...

Can you look carefully and tell me where thoughts arise, for you?

mmm, inside my head - like in the middle somewhere - behind my eyes but also in my throat... like I'm speaking them with my mouth closed

Can you see a point of origin, in reality?

No, they seem to come from nowhere

Looking at the thoughts, do they all start out with an I attached,
or does the I attach to the thought somewhere?


No, they start out as an observation unless it's like a bodily sensation then I might think I'm hungry or I'm tired but I guess that starts as an observation too. Stomachs rumbling = oh I must be hungry.

In other words, are they all about you?

No. Sun is shining. Laptops making a noise. The tea is cold. That was a loud truck outside. I need to wake up. Ah, some thoughts are about me or my needs. But not all.

Look at your computer.
Is it more right to say:
it is A computer?
or it's MY computer?


Honestly, I would say it's MY laptop. There are 2 in the house so I identify this one as mine. I wonder if I lived alone if I'd still call it that lol

Can you attach a computer to a self?
If so, how do we do it?

Not literally no. It does feel like an extension of me sometimes. I get lost in it. We become one lol

How do we possess something?

Only in our minds really. The actual meaning of possession in my head would mean we'd have to enter it somehow and live inside it. I know people do try to possess things but it never works out very well. I mean we could chain ourselves to it but it could still be taken away. So no we can't possess anything.

What is the process to possess something?

In the sense that people do, they just make a decision to claim it as theirs and then live as if it is so. But you can't truly possess something in my opinion, as stated above.

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Re: I am ready...

Postby Bill » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:50 pm

Hi Claire
Great job of looking here. You're very thorough in your descriptions.
After ahwile its usually seen that 'looking' is always happening, and it can be noticed or not.
Can you look carefully and tell me where thoughts arise, for you?

mmm, inside my head - like in the middle somewhere - behind my eyes but also in my throat... like I'm speaking them with my mouth closed.

Can you see a point of origin, in reality?

No, they seem to come from nowhere

This is what is usually found with thoughts... they just come from seemingly nowhere.
In other words, are they all about you?

No. Sun is shining. Laptops making a noise. The tea is cold. That was a loud truck outside. I need to wake up. Ah, some thoughts are about me or my needs. But not all.
Those first two look like observations, but the "I need to wake up" is a thought.
We find most thoughts are centered around the "I" in some way shape or form.
Just notice this as you do your normal things.
See if thoughts are ususally self centered or not.

So more on thoughts.... they just seem to come and go.
Are you the creator of your thoughts?
Can you control them? or even predict them?
Do know what your next thought will be? Other than a contrived situation..
What is the process to possess something?

In the sense that people do, they just make a decision to claim it as theirs and then live as if it is so. But you can't truly possess something in my opinion, as stated above.
Yes, things just 'are'. Its only in our thoughts we possess something.

And about the 'my computer' or 'a computer' ....
Yes, if we look, its really only a thought that creates possession.
Think about your own clothes vs. some others that are identical
Its only a thought that creates the difference and its only in our head.
So a brief summation might be that thoughts arise, labels are put on the thoughts and we have ownership.
Ownership is just another thought. Possession is through thought alone.

Now how about the body? Is that owned and controlled in reality, by a self?

Now lets look at it and see if there is an owner or entity controlling it.
Lift one of your hands. either one.
Move it to the right. Now move it left. Look with your eyes what is happening. Did a self move the hand?
Or did the hand just move?
Direct observation. Move it again. Check it.
Which is more true, the hand moved, or a self moved the hand?
Use the LOOKING method for this.

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Re: I am ready...

Postby iamsource » Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:20 pm

Hi Claire
Great job of looking here. You're very thorough in your descriptions.
After ahwile its usually seen that 'looking' is always happening, and it can be noticed or not.
Hi thanks :) Yes, I've been pushing on with the noting hoping that it will become natural and a habit eventually. I like how it keeps me removed and the sense of peace it brings. It also quietens the thoughts! I forget the trail of thought I was about to embark on everytime. Alas, I digress...


Those first two look like observations, but the "I need to wake up" is a thought.
We find most thoughts are centered around the "I" in some way shape or form.
Just notice this as you do your normal things.
See if thoughts are ususally self centered or not.
Interesting. This sounds right. As, I mentioned I'd been doing a lot of work on "talking thoughts up" or seeing thoughts in an alternative way. To feel better. Whereas from this angle it's more that, they're meaningless (we just give meaning to them) unless they contain "fact" or "true" information. (observations)
So more on thoughts.... they just seem to come and go.
Are you the creator of your thoughts?
Can you control them? or even predict them?
Do know what your next thought will be? Other than a contrived situation..
No, I am not the creator of my thoughts. If I were I would make them all rainbows and bunnies. I can use my imagination to dream up stories. I can stop thoughts coming to an extent through meditation or sleep. I can push them into another direction with guided processes but I can't stop them coming or dictate what will come.

Rather than a creator, it often feels more like I'm a shepherd with wayward sheep and there is a wolf on the loose. :D

Now how about the body? Is that owned and controlled in reality, by a self?

Now lets look at it and see if there is an owner or entity controlling it.
Lift one of your hands. either one.
Move it to the right. Now move it left. Look with your eyes what is happening. Did a self move the hand?
Or did the hand just move?
Direct observation. Move it again. Check it.
Which is more true, the hand moved, or a self moved the hand?
Use the LOOKING method for this.
Mmm, well I feel responsible for my body. I have to do the best by it, so it runs ok and hopefully lasts a long time. If I don't do it, who will? But I guess that is what you're asking. Is it really me? Or the me I thought I was... Or something else?

Direct Observation when I move my hand - my hand just moves.

I've thought about this when I was a younger. I came to the conclusion in that time that it was "subconscious" - there were thoughts that directed it to move but I couldn't see them or hear them. Now, I honestly don't know how my hand does that. It's not me moving it, it moves and I observe it move.

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Re: I am ready...

Postby Bill » Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:11 am

Hello Claire. You're doing great!
A couple of things I noticed if you could comment on..
Hi thanks :) Yes, I've been pushing on with the noting hoping that it will become natural and a habit eventually. I like how it keeps me removed and the sense of peace it brings. It also quietens the thoughts! I forget the trail of thought I was about to embark on everytime. Alas, I digress...
What do you mean 'keeps me removed'?
Rather than a creator, it often feels more like I'm a shepherd with wayward sheep and there is a wolf on the loose. :D

Tell me about this 'wolf on the loose'.

It appears that thoughts just happen. We don't really know where they come from or where they go.
They just do seem to arise out of nowhere. And there might be what's called a manipulation of them
But not control in any real sense. We also can't predict our thoughts. We aren't really in control.
Most thoughts also seem to be about the 'me', and how the rest of everything relates to us.

Yes all these thoughts 'seem' like there is a me who is in charge.
But if we look very closely, can we find this I, this me?
Is it anything more than just another thought?
We perceive things; labeling happens immediately, and then the stories start.
It feels like the I is the controller.
But is it really?
Or is the I just another story?

Another huge story that has never really been looked at.

For sure the body is here. But the I, the me, the entity, that's what maybe we're not exactly sure of.
This is what has been taken for granted for so long and believed. Is it true?
We've seen how we're really not sure if there is an I controlling the thoughts or the body.
Convention tells us that yes, for sure, I am in control.
But are we really?
Who or what is in control? Do we know?


As you move around today in your normal daily life,
please check and see if you can find a self moving the body around.
While you're walking, driving, typing, picking up a cup, drinking, eating...
Is there a who living your life?
Or are there thoughts about everything, including a self, apparently living your life?

You don't have to decide or believe anything at all, just look at the evidence.
In your daily life, in all your actions, keep gently returning to this focus on the thoughts as you move around.
Keep checking if there is something real, besides a thought, that owns, directs, and moves the body.
Try a stream of consciousness on a few things, like typing.
If you pin the thoughts down and look at them, it's usually revealing.

Bill

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Re: I am ready...

Postby iamsource » Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:50 pm

Yes all these thoughts 'seem' like there is a me who is in charge.
But if we look very closely, can we find this I, this me?
Is it anything more than just another thought?
We perceive things; labeling happens immediately, and then the stories start.
It feels like the I is the controller.
But is it really?
Or is the I just another story?
Another huge story that has never really been looked at.
I am seeing more and more that there seems to be no controller of thoughts. They're like snowflakes or rain or hailstones. They simply fall. And, I previously kept going out to clear the path and it would be clear for a while but then I would need to go out again and again and again. When I could just get on with my experiencing and if I did catch sight of them, could just watch them with wonder from the window.
For sure the body is here. But the I, the me, the entity, that's what maybe we're not exactly sure of.
This is what has been taken for granted for so long and believed. Is it true?
We've seen how we're really not sure if there is an I controlling the thoughts or the body.
Convention tells us that yes, for sure, I am in control.
But are we really?
Who or what is in control? Do we know?

As you move around today in your normal daily life,
please check and see if you can find a self moving the body around.
While you're walking, driving, typing, picking up a cup, drinking, eating...
Is there a who living your life?
Or are there thoughts about everything, including a self, apparently living your life?

You don't have to decide or believe anything at all, just look at the evidence.
In your daily life, in all your actions, keep gently returning to this focus on the thoughts as you move around.
Keep checking if there is something real, besides a thought, that owns, directs, and moves the body.
Try a stream of consciousness on a few things, like typing.
If you pin the thoughts down and look at them, it's usually revealing.
The body is harder to fathom in my opinion. Unlike thoughts which even though a mystery, they aren't tangible. You can't touch them or hold them. Whereas the body, is right here all the time. Consistent. AND, previous to your questions about it. Would have stated whole heartedly that I am in control of it and that anything I didn't appear to have done myself in awareness (like breathing, my heart beating etc) was done unconsciously, although I couldn't prove it.

I mean. Who is it then that decides now I will eat and now I will eat this particular thing? Who is it that drives the body to go running marathons or bodybuilding? Who is it that puts the body down to meditate or sleep? Is it some sort of cosmic will? Is source controlling me? Pulling the strings? Doing what IT wants to experience? Am I not the creator of my own reality? I know we aren't here to address these questions but they come up for me.

OK - I'll observe today and try to find the answer. Is there really an I making my body do these things. x

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Re: I am ready...

Postby iamsource » Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:53 pm

oops, i wrote this in word first to not lose it and didn't copy my first lines which answered your questions. So here they are...

Hi Bill,

Thanks for your response :) I guess what I meant by feeling removed was feeling removed from my thoughts in a sense. By just simply stating to myself what I'm doing or what's occurring. I'm replacing what was before mental chatter and opinion about what I was doing (which would spiral into all kinds of other things) with a much briefer statement. The facts. I'm still there obviously experiencing the eating or the rain on my face - which has actually deepened the experience in a way. I love the noting exercise (now it's calmed down, I had a few rather hyper awareness days where I would jump at even a fly touching me). I am very much looking forward to when it is second nature.

The wolf on the loose would mean emotions (negative emotions) if my thoughts are my sheep which I the shepherd must keep safe (positive) then the looming threat which I am keeping them safe from is the wolf of fear, anxiety, dread etc... I'm a writer lol so my mind comes up with these analogies often. I also write too much. I apologise :D

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Bill
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Re: I am ready...

Postby Bill » Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:36 pm

Thanks Claire.

I'll wait for your response to the observation question of your daily goings on.....

Here's something for you, you might find interesting.
Comment on it or not as you want.

*************************************************

Throughout the years our many guides have discovered that one of the major obstacles to the direct, clear seeing of what is already magnificently the case is a thick layer of expectations and narrative about a self’s journey towards enlightenment, built up by years and years of seeking. Getting these expectations out in the open and out of the way is an important first step.
Below is a list explaining what the LU process is not:

This is not about convincing you of anything.
This is not a self improvement program.
This is not about gaining a particular bit of knowledge.
This is not about having a certain thought or sequence of thoughts
This is not about stopping thoughts, changing thoughts, or getting rid of thoughts.
This is not a trick of the mind, or twisting the mind into believing certain thoughts.
This is not about cultivating an altered state of consciousness.
This is not a belief, religion, or a philosophy, nor is it magical or mystical.
This is not about gaining something extra, becoming something special.
This is not something that will lead to accumulation of money or things.
This is not about becoming a holy, good, moral or better person.
This is not going to lead you to eternal peace and happiness, it is not about happiness.
This is not a way to get free of depression or other diseases.
This is not about freedom from emotions and intense feelings.
This is not a way to escape your daily life.
This is not a way to make the story of you disappear.
This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I.

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Re: I am ready...

Postby iamsource » Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:37 am

Ok, I've been looking for who is really in control of my body. At times it seems like it's me/my mind. I think I'll get up and clean up and I do. At other times, I get a sensation here or there that I didn't make happen. Then I go back to well I am not my mind, I'm not in control of my mind so how can the mind control the body...

The conclusion I am leaning towards is that it isn't me because there's no real me just a stream of thoughts. Whether or not it is a higher me, I can't see either in direct experience.


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