ready to start with a guide

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
User avatar
geiger
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 3:26 pm

ready to start with a guide

Postby geiger » Sat May 31, 2014 3:33 pm

Hello, my name is Craig and I've been through some of this inquiry work and now I'd like to settle this issue of separate self/ non volition for good. I live on west coast of United States ( that info is for time zone purpose)

User avatar
Freddi
Posts: 1226
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:51 pm
Location: Céret, France

Re: ready to start with a guide

Postby Freddi » Sat May 31, 2014 3:54 pm

Hi Craig,

Welcome to LU!

My name is Fred and I would be happy to guide you.

Before we begin can we both agree to post at least once a day, unless we let each other know otherwise.
I will ask you questions and you will respond with upmost honesty. Responses are best from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
Lastly, Please learn to use the quote function; instructions are located in the link below this line: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660”

Then, write me any reasons you are motivated to do this enquiry and also any expectations you have.
What would 'settling this issue of separate self/ non volition for good' be like?

Fred
"To come to your senses you have to go out of your mind" - Alan Watts

User avatar
geiger
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: ready to start with a guide

Postby geiger » Sat May 31, 2014 4:24 pm

Hi Fred,
thank you for the speedy reply. and yes, I agree to stay within parameters of this topic and not venture off into philosophical speculation.

Reasons for doing this enquiry: I've been at this non-dual business for a number of years and the effect on my life has been astonishing. There is a huge reduction in suffering as well as a deep recognition that that which I had been seeking for so long can be nowhere but here. Where I've gotten hung up is the idea of me being a separate self with volition. It's very clear to see that enquiry has a life of its own and that "I' didn't do any of it, yet I still sometimes get caught up in small things, mundane decisions, purchasing plane tickets, answering emails at work--little bullshit details that I feel I'm not managing well. This still has the small sting of suffering to it, especially when other people are unhappy with my behavior.
Settling this issue would mean that the self that thinks it has an issue would be seen for what it is, a thought consisting of words and pictures and bodily sensations with no doer behind it.

User avatar
geiger
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: ready to start with a guide

Postby geiger » Sat May 31, 2014 4:26 pm

Fred, I didn't find the link to the Quote function you mention...I'll look further

User avatar
Freddi
Posts: 1226
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:51 pm
Location: Céret, France

Re: ready to start with a guide

Postby Freddi » Sat May 31, 2014 4:28 pm

Here is the link to the quote function, in full:

http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

Fred
"To come to your senses you have to go out of your mind" - Alan Watts

User avatar
geiger
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: ready to start with a guide

Postby geiger » Sat May 31, 2014 4:39 pm

I suppose I am motivated because I've tasted this so many times. (I understand there's a problem with using language, and stating that "I" have tasted implies there is a separate I that tastes and remembers the tasting but I'm not going to drop pronouns) I know this joy and I know that life unfolds as it will. I've seen this.

User avatar
geiger
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: ready to start with a guide

Postby geiger » Sat May 31, 2014 4:45 pm

Okay, when it really comes down to it, seeing there is no separate self is really just the doorway to what I ultimately am, my true nature, the love and aliveness of live itself...living itself, expressing itself in myriad form and the joy of the recognition. This simple bright joy of presence and knowing right here and now.

User avatar
Freddi
Posts: 1226
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:51 pm
Location: Céret, France

Re: ready to start with a guide

Postby Freddi » Sat May 31, 2014 4:53 pm

Hi again Craig
There is a huge reduction in suffering as well as a deep recognition that that which I had been seeking for so long can be nowhere but here.
What is it that you were seeking? Can you describe in the simplest way possible? Is that seeking still going on?
Where I've gotten hung up is the idea of me being a separate self with volition. It's very clear to see that enquiry has a life of its own and that "I' didn't do any of it.
Explain how you ‘see’ that? Is this seeing a logical deduction or is it something plainly obvious in your moment to moment experience?
I suppose I am motivated because I've tasted this so many times. (I understand there's a problem with using language, and stating that "I" have tasted implies there is a separate I that tastes and remembers the tasting but I'm not going to drop pronouns) I know this joy and I know that life unfolds as it will. I've seen this
No one is dropping pronouns here ;-) They do have their use.
Do you see it now? Is this seeing something that can be lost and found again?
Okay, when it really comes down to it, seeing there is no separate self is really just the doorway to what I ultimately am, my true nature, the love and aliveness of live itself...living itself, expressing itself in myriad form and the joy of the recognition.
How does this true nature, this love and aliveness of Life itself show up in your present experience? Can you give me a ‘slice of Craig’s Life’, what is happening right here and now and show me this true nature in all its beauty, away from all learned concepts and received wisdom. Just as plainly as it comes.

Take your time with these questions. Stay with them, contemplate them, and look into your here and now experience. Don't scan your mind for answers.

Thanks!

Fred
"To come to your senses you have to go out of your mind" - Alan Watts

User avatar
geiger
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: ready to start with a guide

Postby geiger » Sat May 31, 2014 5:20 pm

Fred, you ask what it was I was seeking...I was seeking this knowingness in the center of my being, my true identity, a gut level knowingness The seeking has stopped now for 3 years and in its place a gut level beingness, something so ridiculously obvious and effortless and shining.
Explain how you see that/
When enquiry has been active (and it was again last week when I strted reading the Gatecrasher book) it takes off by itself as if an outside force pulls me into its workings. It's not an outside force at all, it's me, this whatever it is that I am. It's a miraculous unfolding. It's visceral and multidimensional and deeply ordinary and extraordinarily intelligent and it unfolds in a way that "little old me" can not possible take responsibility for.
Do I see this thing now that can be lost and found again?/
Of course, there is this simple seeing here, and no I cannot be something that is lost.

I'll take some more time with the last question...
still not sure I'm using the quote function properly

User avatar
geiger
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: ready to start with a guide

Postby geiger » Sat May 31, 2014 5:36 pm

[How does this true nature show up in your present experience?/ Okay, a slice of "Craig's life" as I sit here at the computer there are sensations passing through which are inseparable from this knowing, then a personal thought like"what time should I call my son to get together this afternoon?" arises....hold on...okay so right now a though of someone named Fred...just this thought arises and it's clear that no one is doing this. Any imagining about "Fred" are all taking place right here. This doesn't dismiss Fred, it's simply part of the texture of this unfolding aliveness.
Just now, looking into this question, an expansive,open looking...I guess, when it comes down to it, this alive beingness is like a current that is turned on full blast. I am forever amazed at this because for so many years I believed I needed some sort of effort to get here. But "here" is already shinning
I'm not sure I've answered your question. I'm going to step away from the computer for a bit.
Fred, thank you so much for your time so far.
-Craig
quote][/quote]

User avatar
geiger
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: ready to start with a guide

Postby geiger » Sat May 31, 2014 6:07 pm

[quote]How does this show up in my life?/
Fred..I went out side to sit for a moment and I notice various thoughts swirling around in this space. I seem to be witnessing them and there is an energetic pull at the center of my body. This is what I'm calling volition or doership because there is a slight unease to this. Last week when I was reading the Gatecrasher book this energetic pull snapped and there was no more witnessing there just this presence appearing as thoughts, feelings, sensation, and volition. There was a total release at the level of the body. I'm not talking about being disembodied at all. I call this non-volitional living because it is obvious no one is doing it-a very clear recognition of that.

I understand the trap of saying "Iwant that back" for this makes an object out of my experience.
I'm going to step away again and dive deeper into this.
Thank you again Fred.

User avatar
Freddi
Posts: 1226
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:51 pm
Location: Céret, France

Re: ready to start with a guide

Postby Freddi » Sat May 31, 2014 6:25 pm

Thanks for your honest answers, Craig

1)
In your first post, you said
I'd like to settle this issue of separate self/ non volition for good
Then you said:
Settling this issue would mean that the self that thinks it has an issue would be seen for what it is, a thought consisting of words and pictures and bodily sensations with no doer behind it
So what is this ‘self’ seen as now, that is different from that?

2)
this whatever it is that I am. It's a miraculous unfolding. It's visceral and multidimensional and deeply ordinary and extraordinarily intelligent and it unfolds in a way that "little old me" can not possible take responsibility for.
So what are ‘you’? 'Little old me' is nowhere to be found and is not responsible for anything. Are you a Big New Me, with responsibility for all things?

3)
I seem to be witnessing them and there is an energetic pull at the center of my body. This is what I'm calling volition or doership because there is a slight unease to this. Last week when I was reading the Gatecrasher book this energetic pull snapped and there was no more witnessing there just this presence appearing as thoughts, feelings, sensation, and volition. There was a total release at the level of the body. I'm not talking about being disembodied at all. I call this non-volitional living because it is obvious no one is doing it-a very clear recognition of that.
Thoughts appear, they are seen. Sometimes they are accompanied by an uneasy feeling. Who or what is labelling these feelings as uneasy or bad? Who or what is interpreting these feelings as a sign of volition or doership when you see (with a lot of clarity) that it is obvious that no one is doing it?

I have numbered the questions, so you can just refer to the numbers instead of quoting …

Fred
"To come to your senses you have to go out of your mind" - Alan Watts

User avatar
geiger
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: ready to start with a guide

Postby geiger » Sat May 31, 2014 7:33 pm

2) so what is this self seen as now, that is different from that?
/
The seeming 'self' that I think is doing the thinking simply evaporates. Not totally sure I understand your question. The approach that "seems to work" is the question, "what is the self behind the thought that is doing the thinking?" When I look and question this way it is obvious that there is no self behind thought or mental images.
So what are you? 'Little old me'/
I am nowhere to be found.
3) Who or what is labeling these feelings.../
Fred, it's just another thought that is doing the labeling. The mind is just commenting on experience and then projecting into an imagined future, projecting an image of 'me' and this isn't a problem, this is simply how the mind currently works. And who would change all that anyway.
I will look deeper now into this energetic pull that is being labeled as separate self volition.

User avatar
Freddi
Posts: 1226
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:51 pm
Location: Céret, France

Re: ready to start with a guide

Postby Freddi » Sat May 31, 2014 8:02 pm

Hi again Craig

My question 1 was, as you gave me a definition of the self as you would like to see it when this issue is settled, "a thought consisting of words and pictures and bodily sensations with no doer behind it" , how do you see the self now that is different from that?
What are you referring to when you use the words ‘I’, ‘self’, ‘Craig’ etc?

And my question 2 was a reference to what you say is ‘your true nature’. You said ‘It's not an outside force at all, it's me, this whatever it is that I am’.
Can you point to this true nature in your experience? If you are not ‘little old me’, with responsibilities etc, what are you?

Keep looking into this question 3 too, this energetic pull that is labelled as separate self volition ...

Thanks!

Fred

PS I forgot to say I am in France, so a good few hours ahead of you. This means we’ll be out of sync for part of the day.
"To come to your senses you have to go out of your mind" - Alan Watts

User avatar
geiger
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: ready to start with a guide

Postby geiger » Sat May 31, 2014 8:14 pm

Hi Fred, again thank you for your reply. I will be stepping away from my computer for at least 24 hours so I will answer the above questions tomorrow. Thanks for everything. Something is on fire here and I know where to look.
-Craig


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 68 guests