Asking for a guide

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Shony
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Asking for a guide

Postby Shony » Thu May 22, 2014 9:23 pm

Hi.i would like a guide to see my tail has also passed through the gate. Thank you .Shony

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ray
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Re: Asking for a guide

Postby ray » Thu May 22, 2014 11:05 pm

Hi there,

I'll be happy to chat with you.

Please tell a little of your story. What brings you here and what do you expect from this conversation?
Where are you on the path to seeing through the illusion of a separate entity, self?

Ray

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Shony
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Re: Asking for a guide

Postby Shony » Fri May 23, 2014 5:47 am

Hi Ray
Thank you for your reply.i am long time seeker.i would love to see that there is no self without any doubt. Tony parsons saying about himself "There is no one here" still frustrates me,but i am begining to realize that the functioning self will continue. i am not going to disappear into "just hearing,just seeing" 'cause there is also "just feeling" .Thoughts of self are still arising for me and deep vasanas are still creating suffering for me.
Hope to listen from you today
Shony

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Shony
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Re: Asking for a guide

Postby Shony » Fri May 23, 2014 6:16 am

Hi ray
Would like to add i am 38 years in seeking peace of mind.The truth is i don't have much expectations . i am starting to realize that the functioning part of the self will continue.i am not going to disappear into "just hearing,just seeing" because there is also "just feeling".Shony-ing will continue to function .The understanding is that i am not an entity with Authoring powers independent and separate.Yesterday great fear from women was arising for me and i thought maybe this is because i don't want to admit that i do have "free will and choise".
Chacking -in and trying to be someone tough and "Macho" is only holding my breath,tensing my belly and covering fear.Like Tony Parsons i would love to say "There is no-one here".
Shony

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Shony
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Re: Asking for a guide

Postby Shony » Fri May 23, 2014 7:51 am

Hi Ray
Even before answering me i will start chatting for my own sake.Looking from my window i see trees.There is a strong feeling that i exist.A warm feeling/sensation in my chest together with seeing the yard outside. Then the thoughts : "i exist.How can they say i don"t exist".But before thinking these thoughts there was just the feeling that was labeled "i am existing".it seems that the experiance of life is the same as before but there is seeing that the self is no-thing.no-entity. Asking "Who am i " there is a feeling of not knowing. I am Awarenss/Consciousness was never my direct experiance.i see clearly that everything happens and i am not the Author /Source of my thoughts feelings and actions.infinit causes and conditions are there before something is happening.Looking within i don't find a self.But the personality called Shony continues as part of the happening. After starting to meditate in a wrong way when i was 19 years old in 1979 and being with a Guru that was so immature and ignorant about human psychology i started to have Ocd.Obsessive compulsive thoughts.Since then i learnd to deal with this disorder. i do yoga.i work in gardening and now an assistent in yoga teachers training progrem here in Israel.Revealing myself here on the internet is being done with the wish that it will be helpful to anyone else.i would like you to help me see once and for all that Santa/self Does not and never was. Maybe i already seen it.i am doubting because my experiance of life is the same. i still have feelings/sensations in my heart and body. Hope hearing fom you Shony

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ray
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Re: Asking for a guide

Postby ray » Fri May 23, 2014 11:31 am

HI Shony,

First let's have a small agreement,
Please give answers from your own direct experience, not from what you have heard or read, or from the teachings of others. For this investigation try to put all that aside and see how you see things in this moment, and answer with complete honesty.
I am not here to teach but to ask you questions to point you to look.
Also please confirm that you have seen our disclaimer and video on the home page.
Looking from my window i see trees.There is a strong feeling that i exist.A warm feeling/sensation in my chest together with seeing the yard outside. Then the thoughts : "i exist.How can they say i don"t exist".But before thinking these thoughts there was just the feeling that was labeled "i am existing".it seems that the experiance of life is the same as before but there is seeing that the self is no-thing.no-entity. Asking "Who am i " there is a feeling of not knowing
Yes. As you say there is a feeling of existing of being alive, that is clearly here and now. It sounds like you have some clarity from what you say. But lets look a little closer. There is nothing hidden here, it has always been in the open! Instead of "who am I?" look at the question "what am I?"
How do you react if I say that what does not exist is a separate piece of life called Shony. That there is no independent controller of this piece of life. That there is one flow of life and you are not separate from that?

Ray

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Shony
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Re: Asking for a guide

Postby Shony » Fri May 23, 2014 12:46 pm

Thank you Ray.
Yes i have seen the disclaimer on the website."What am I " is easier for me to answer because it immediatly bring me to the experiancing of this moment." Who am I"is more difficult because it supposes that there is something i need to find which is me and i cannot find something like this. When you say that a separate piece of life does not exist and there is no independent controller i say this is also my understanding although as the flow of life i feel separate from others .i feel it as a contraction in my solar plexus.And also there are natural boundries between myself and others.

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ray
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Re: Asking for a guide

Postby ray » Fri May 23, 2014 4:16 pm

You mention a feeling of contraction. This could be part of a natural fear mechanism trying to protect you. Bring that feeling close, just let it be. Welcome it and ask it what it is protecting.
What do you find?

How do you expect things to look when clear seeing has happened? What are your expectations?
What will change and how will it change you?

Ray

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Shony
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Re: Asking for a guide

Postby Shony » Fri May 23, 2014 5:04 pm

I find fear of thoughts to hurt others .Fear of violent thoughts.When clear seeing has happened i expect to flow more easily with the arising of difficult " stuff" .to be more flowing in general. As i said i do not expect much and give this dialogue with you areal chance. maybe i do want to have this freedom isee in so many teachers.

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Shony
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Re: Asking for a guide

Postby Shony » Fri May 23, 2014 9:12 pm

Children shouting outdoors and adults hissing them with shouts .This is unself-conscious freedom.Life just lifing.
This is maybe what i am looking for.

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Shony
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Re: Asking for a guide

Postby Shony » Sat May 24, 2014 5:58 am

Sitting in the bathroom this morning there was a strong sense of existance. Seeing,feeling pleasent sensation in my chest,hearing sounds.Nothing special.A regular sense of being i am used to call myself. But why to call it myself?It can be labeled "Sensations" as well." What am i" is easy. Bring me immediatly to direct experiancing but
"Who am i" is tough coconut .No answer is coming and there is a nagging question mark feeling after asking. So is there a self or not? 15 years i asked the question "Who am i " and could not find a "who" and not an "I".
Awarenes,Consciousness are just labels for the event of this moment.i find no entity i can call "myself".
Have i disappeared. Not at all. My experiance is the same.The undrstanding is that the word i does not point to "any-thing ".The functioning of personality and ego as western psychology understand it will continue. That is natural functioning of existance.So what is missing right now?

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ray
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Re: Asking for a guide

Postby ray » Sat May 24, 2014 3:19 pm

Hi Shony,

Some really lovely comments here,
Seeing,feeling pleasent sensation in my chest,hearing sounds.Nothing special.A regular sense of being i am used to call myself. But why to call it myself?It can be labeled "Sensations" as well." What am i" is easy. Bring me immediatly to direct experiancing
Yes. It's great that looking at "What am I?" has helped the drop into direct experiencing. Try this... instead of looking for an answer to what? who? or is there an I? simply look in direct experience without striving for an answer to a question.
Let this be a relaxation, a softening instead of an effort to find answers. You have looked for answers for a long time. Relax and simply LOOK.
As you say it can be labelled "sensations" (or experience). What is there before the labels and the I-thought get attached to objects?

Listen in direct experience. Try to find a boundary where there is an observer and an object being listened to. Describe what you find.
Try this with looking, also with touch (your hand on a table or the direct experience of sitting on a chair)

Warmly,
Ray

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Shony
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Re: Asking for a guide

Postby Shony » Sat May 24, 2014 5:08 pm

Hi Ray,
Thank you for taking the time to write. Is it o.k to read/listen the LU website.
i quote "What is there before labels and i-thought get attached to objects" . i love this pointer.There is the ordinary feeling of what i would call myself. looking into it i cannot find a specific something that i can grasp and say "this is me". Moving Through the 5 senses i do not find any division between observer and observed.
But when it is coming to feelings/emotions/painful memories the feeling is that it is happening to me .
Now ,even this is happening and i am not authoring it.Thoughts of i will continue to arise ,isn't it?
Shony

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Shony
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Re: Asking for a guide

Postby Shony » Sat May 24, 2014 6:39 pm

When body sensations are felt-is there a feeler? This question touches me.i look into my living room feeling my heart area very strongly.Is there a feeler?This is strong .....thought says: "this is the feeler"-refering to the feeling. i am so used to refer to myself as the feeler.Is there a feeler or it is just a feeling that is changing?

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ray
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Location: London, UK

Re: Asking for a guide

Postby ray » Sat May 24, 2014 7:30 pm

Yes. Please check out content on the LU site and Ilona's 7 steps on her blog http://markedeternal.blogspot.co.uk/p/s ... e.html?m=1

Ray


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