The Jivanmukta's Tale

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Jivanmukta_Nothing
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The Jivanmukta's Tale

Postby Jivanmukta_Nothing » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:20 pm

Hello all!

I am here to share my experience. I would like to divide this post into three parts:

1. Who I was before "liberation."
2. "Liberation" "experience"
3. Life After

Who I Was Before Liberation

My journey into searching for something began when I was 13 years old when I was first introduced to Yoga. I enjoyed it and wanted to know more about it. Somehow, it felt very familiar. But, high school happened, and I became infatuated with the life revolving around it. I got into trouble a lot, fighting and abusing the authorities, and was expelled. Now I was in India at the time, and teacher there invited me to go with him to the Himalayas. I was 16 at the time. He was a Yogi, as he revealed to me, and began to teach me ancient mantras and techniques. I was mesmerized by them and diligently continued onto my practice, falling off the wagon every so often.

"Liberating Experience"

But at 19, I continuously heightened my practices, which were advanced forms of Kriya Yoga. I practiced for hours and hours, and at 23, in May 2013, I began to have Savikalpa Samadhi experiences. Finally, came the experience of Nirvana, Nirvikalpa Samadhi, Asamprajnata Samadhi, Liberation (whatever you want to call it). There was only the experience. Everything I felt was only after the experience. The experience itself was all there was. The Universe was gone and all that remained was the experience of absolute nothingness. I do want to clarify here that the experience itself was not what I'm writing about because what happens there is unrecordable... only the effects and coming down period can be explained. I was not breathing... I didn't need to breathe. There was no "I" The Universe was all there was.

Life After

Now, life is nothing but a playground. It's just here to be enjoyed. A play of light and shadow, or experiences that are past-times, and the Universe conspires with you. You and the Universe, no longer a secret from one another, laugh at the Great Joke!

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ElPortal
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Re: The Jivanmukta's Tale

Postby ElPortal » Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:38 pm

Hi Jivanmukta,

... and welcome to LU.

Many thanks for sharing your experiences and your story with us.

Yes, a Great Joke indeed!

Cheers

Mark

ps is there anything you are looking for here?
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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Jivanmukta_Nothing
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Re: The Jivanmukta's Tale

Postby Jivanmukta_Nothing » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:08 pm

Hi Mark,

Thank you!

I'd like to join this group by being the riverboat man and helping others on their own journeys as a guide :)

Regards,

Delson

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ElPortal
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Re: The Jivanmukta's Tale

Postby ElPortal » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:48 pm

Hi Delson,

Are you ok with me asking whatever question comes up and to answer honestly from present experience (rather than from learnt concepts, teachings etc)? To go deeply if necessary?

Please tell me whereabouts in the world you are. I am in France GMT+1.

Cheers

Mark

ps What made you choose the name Jivanmukta rather than any other name, or your 'normal' name?
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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Jivanmukta_Nothing
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Re: The Jivanmukta's Tale

Postby Jivanmukta_Nothing » Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:01 pm

Hi Mark,

Yes, absolutely. In fact, I prefer to only answer through whatever answers flow through this vessel as the Universe gives it in real-time.

I am currently in the US, Eastern Time, +4GMT.

Jivanmukta in Sanskrit means Liberated while Living. It's one of the first things I learned when I began my journey. I feel it's indicative of a full circle by choosing that name.

Regards,

Delson

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ElPortal
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Re: The Jivanmukta's Tale

Postby ElPortal » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:49 pm

Hi Delson,

Great.

There may also be some questions about more everyday things and your story.....

.. like, in everyday life what do you do there in Eastern USA +4GMT?
How did you come across the LU site?
Have you done any type of guiding or ('spiritual') teaching already? (If not, that's fine: I'm just interested).

Cheers

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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Jivanmukta_Nothing
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Re: The Jivanmukta's Tale

Postby Jivanmukta_Nothing » Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:42 pm

Hi Mark,

Currently, I'm visiting my family, but I'll be headed to the West, in California sometime next week to continue on a writing project.

I was brought to this site by a post on reddit.

Most of the guiding I have done is for people who've approached me about their paths. They seem to gather around me to ask for all sort of answers they're seeking.

Regards,

Delson

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ElPortal
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Re: The Jivanmukta's Tale

Postby ElPortal » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:21 am

Hi Delson

Thanks for those responses, even if they are a bit brief. It would be good if you could open up a little more if possible, especially as you have come here to share.

From your initial post about your story, you have clearly put a lot of time and effort into searching, yoga and techniques. How important do you feel that your own efforts have been in finding 'liberation'? What would be your advice to others in this respect?

With those who approach you and gather around you, how do you communicate what has happened with you and how do you apply it or to them?

How would you define 'liberation' in simple, lay terms that, say, a teenager could understand? What are the essentials of it in a sentence?

Cheers

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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Jivanmukta_Nothing
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Re: The Jivanmukta's Tale

Postby Jivanmukta_Nothing » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:23 pm

Hi Mark,

I understand. Here are my answers:

Yes I have spent a number of years searching and there has been much effort. However, one of the most important things I learned later on as I progressed was detachment of results. Results or effects of meditations are temporary and impermanent. Even the state of Samadhi is impermanent. Such a state enables and rewires one's perception but it is not permanent until it is brought forth into the world outside. This happens autonomously with consistent practice. The key, however, would be to remain detached. This is a vicious cycle, as when one hears this, they will make another effort to remain detached. One must never feel like it's an effort. After all, putting in effort will bring only more effort. The effortless way brings the autonomous liberation. It is not by grace either that this state of being appears. Rather, it is the total cessation of the activities of the mind. Again, to force or try to quiet the mind might work in the beginning, but one must become a "witness" to what one is doing. That is meditation in its simplest sense. I think of it as, "getting out of one's way" to let the "real magic" happen :)

When others approach me, it's very spontaneous in terms of what I tell them. Usually, the words that flow are not of my own, because I own nothing. Everything I do and see and breathe and give is for my sake in that others are me. So when I speak to others, it is effortless as well. Sometimes, I use parables or things around me to answer their questions. When it comes to my own experience, I may transmit the experience on a different plane, while both of us meditate.

In the simplest terms, "liberation" is living life as if it is your first day on Earth and being amazed and awed by everything every moment of your life. The word "I" or identity implies a storage system of information from previous events, i.e. the past. But if you have no past, you don't think of the future, and you live in this moment, because it's the most awe-inspiring :)

Regards,

Delson

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ElPortal
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Re: The Jivanmukta's Tale

Postby ElPortal » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:20 pm

HI Delson

Many thanks for that: interesting reading and even poetic at times :-)

Not to detract from what you have written, and I know I asked you to open up a little, but I wonder whether you would now be willing to revisit my questions and give REALLY succinct, to-the-point answers.

Of particular interest is whether there is some personal effort and responsibility involved in 'liberation'? (from question 1). You said: "It is not by grace either that this state of being appears. Rather, it is the total cessation of the activities of the mind."

Not sure whether you usually share with friends and family or you have a group for teaching/meditating (I'd be interested to know)?... but I am interested in how you would explain what happened to you to a friend who said: 'Hey man, something's changed, what happened with you?'. ie simple English (from question 2)

And can you give a more succinct definition of 'liberation', trying to exclude similes, metaphors and descriptions of by-products? (question 3).

So, can you put this really simply, for the lay man?

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Cheers

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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Jivanmukta_Nothing
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Re: The Jivanmukta's Tale

Postby Jivanmukta_Nothing » Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:23 pm

Hi Mark,

I suppose the poetic aspects come from my career as a writer! :)

1. My most simple answer would be this - There is no personal effort or responsibility involved in "liberation." The desire for it is enough. When the desire is transcended even, liberation unfolds when the mind is still. So-called efforts would be techniques one uses, but liberation happens on its own once the mind is settled.

2. I do not share with anyone unless one is interested and wants to know. I don't teach or meditate with a group. I only give when someone asks. My family and friends haven't noticed a real difference, nor do I expect them to... but in the hypothetical, what happened to me, if a friend asked, was that I knew the Universe for what it is... it just is!

3. Liberation is functioning the freedom from all ideas and concepts! :)

Regards,

Delson

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ElPortal
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Re: The Jivanmukta's Tale

Postby ElPortal » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:58 am

Hi Delson

Thanks for that.
The desire for it is enough. When the desire is transcended even, liberation unfolds when the mind is still. So-called efforts would be techniques one uses, but liberation happens on its own once the mind is settled.
Where does the desire come from, from the individual? Who is settling the mind? The individual? Is any of this apparent process coming from an individual?

Sure, many spiritual traditions and practices seem to aim for a still or settled mind, but how can it truly be known from experience that this is needed for 'liberation'? Could it not be a by-product of 'liberation', of clear seeing, for example? Could you please say more about what is the connection between a settled mind and liberation.
Liberation is functioning the freedom from all ideas and concepts!
I would like to press you on that definition of 'liberation' (point 3). What you wrote is still not quite clear, maybe the grammar?

Could you also tell me what makes up 'Delson'? What does he consist of? Who is it that is 'liberated'?

Cheers

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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Jivanmukta_Nothing
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Re: The Jivanmukta's Tale

Postby Jivanmukta_Nothing » Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:51 pm

Hi Mark,

Yes it comes from the individual, after tiring of all other desires, when this one desire is dominant, one seriously enters the path to liberation. The individual ego is not destroyed while settling the mind. It's transformed. To be clear, yes it is the individual settling the mind and this part of the process all comes from the individual. But the individual does not obtain liberation, but just becomes or "settles" into it, realizing there was nothing to realize.

Yes it is true, the settled mind can be and is a by-product of "liberation." Liberation can happen to one who is in the midst of everyday activities as well. The mind-settling aspect is just one such process, which was part of my initial approach. However, the "switch" can happen just as easily, where one realizes what is, and settles into it. The "I" is not destroyed, but rather knows what itself is... to be poetic :) - it is like a clay pot of water in an ocean. When the pot is broken, the water merges with the ocean.

Sorry about that. I meant to say, "Liberation is functioning with the freedom from all ideas and concepts."

Delson is a name given to a form which currently is this body, a vehicle for one who is already liberated. Delson is not real, but the amalgamation of experiences, memories, emotions, personas, ideas, concepts, and a repository of information. The one is who is liberated need not do anything. The "I" in Delson is separate yet becomes one with the "I" of the Liberated, who is in fact One. For the sake of clarification "i" will indicate Delson and "I" will indicate the Liberated person. When it's said the "I" is One, it's referring to Delson, the "i" individual coming upon a realization, but the true "I" remains indifferent because Liberation is already here and now. Therefore, all it is, is the "i" coming into to terms with what it is really is, falsely real and merges with the Truth - The "I" of the Universe.

Looking forward to more!

Regards,

Delson

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ElPortal
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Re: The Jivanmukta's Tale

Postby ElPortal » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:58 am

Hi Delson

Ok, so liberation is defined as 'functioning with the freedom from all ideas and concepts', you write.

Now, just to be really clear, could you please look over your last response and tell me, from the 'individual' the 'individual ego', the 'individual who settles the mind', '"I" which is not destroyed who knows what itself is", the 'one who is already liberated', the '"i" in Delson', the 'liberated person' - which of those are just an apparent individual, an apparent 'i' etc etc, and which of them are actually real? Are any of them anything other than ideas and concepts?

It would be good to have some indication of what reality is seen behind these notions.

Cheers

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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Jivanmukta_Nothing
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Re: The Jivanmukta's Tale

Postby Jivanmukta_Nothing » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:28 pm

Hi Mark,

They are all concepts and ideas. The Individual, the ego, the self and the experience are all concepts and ideas.

The reality behind these notions are nothing, nothing and nothing. All explanations fall short and are more or less conceptual attempts to describe liberation, awakening, reality, etc, when all they do is describe the states before and after the "experience" of reality. That reality in essence is nothing.

Regards,

Delson


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