I have just registered and would like some help

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catherine
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I have just registered and would like some help

Postby catherine » Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:27 pm

Hi Ilona

Thank you for your offer of helping me through. I feel ready to look for myself now to see through the illusion. As I mentioned already I have been trying to look for myself by reading your blog and alot of the other posts but I feel I need the help directly at this point.
with thanks Catherine

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Ilona
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Re: I have just registered and would like some help

Postby Ilona » Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:34 pm

Welcome here, Catherine. You said you have been answering questions by yourself.
Let's see where exactly you are at the moment.

If you let this thought in- there is no you at all as a separate being that drives the body, what comes up? Feelings, thoughts?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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catherine
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Re: I have just registered and would like some help

Postby catherine » Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:47 pm

when I let in the thought "there is no me at all as a separate being" I notice feelings of fear, like a stunned or startled feeling right now, very few thoughts but my body feels shaky.I,m just breathing into those feelings.

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neeeel
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Re: I have just registered and would like some help

Postby neeeel » Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:49 pm

Hi catherine, glad to help you

Can I start by asking you what you think enlightenment is, what you think will happen?

and also, you know this is about no-self, can you tell me in as much detail as possible, what the self is, what it does, how it manifests itself. Dont give me what you think I want to hear, or what youve read in books. Just clear honest answers as to what you think the self is

thanks

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neeeel
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Re: I have just registered and would like some help

Postby neeeel » Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:49 pm

oops sorry, was composing my post when ilona posted. Will leave it up to her

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catherine
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Re: I have just registered and would like some help

Postby catherine » Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:11 pm

As I sit with this , there are thoughts, " I,m never going to get it" , but the frozen feeling is relaxing now.The thoughts coming up are " I am trying too hard", I just want to be able to answer honestly and not give what looks like the right answer.
I feel like I have had glimpses during the last two weeks where I could see that there is no me separate from whatever is happening in the moment.
When I ask is there a me typing it feels like there is a me doing this action.It seems easier to see there is no me breathing just breathing happening or there is no me hearing just hearing happening but when it comes to an action like moving my hand or taking a drink or walking across the room it feels like there is a me responding to a thought to do something, i.e thought comes go down and get a drink and there is a me that follows.

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Ilona
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I have just registered and would like some help

Postby Ilona » Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:26 pm

Ok, catherine. Let's look at the fear.
Let it be there and observe the fear itself as a mechanism. Look how it brings up a sensation in the body, how it makes the body shake. Let it be ok, observe how fear does its job.
What is its job?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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catherine
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Re: I have just registered and would like some help

Postby catherine » Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:56 pm

yes, looking at the fear, it brings up lots of sensations in the body...., it has brought up shaking, ice cold sensations and stomach churning.
I,m letting it be ok.
observe how fear does it's job.
It's job is to stop me looking, it's a defense mechanism to keep the me in place. It is tied in with thoughts of "I'm a phony" and sensation of my mind going blank and thoughts of it's impossible to answer the question and then It's the thought that I want to be a me that looks good and is preserved...
it feels lighter to see that.

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Ilona
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I have just registered and would like some help

Postby Ilona » Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:59 pm

Ok, great work. Still let the fear be here. It is doing its job as protector. Thank it for that. Bow to it. It has been taking care of you all your life. It's not an enemy, it's not to be feared, it's a guard.

What is it protecting from being found out? Can you look behind the fear and tell me if anything needs to be protected.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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catherine
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Re: I have just registered and would like some help

Postby catherine » Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:37 pm

what is the fear protecting from being found out?

when I sit with this I get the thought ," nothingness, just this thought coming " I am nothing"

Can I look behind the fear and tell you if anything needs to be protected?

When I do this I can,t find anything that needs to be protected, the feeling is there's nothing there.

Is the fear guarding me from seeing there is nothing there?

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catherine
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Re: I have just registered and would like some help

Postby catherine » Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:59 pm

I have no feelings or sensations of fear now. I addressed fear directly and thanked it and it felt benign. It feels like there is emptiness or space behind it and my body feels relaxed.It,s just a thought that comes in that seems to have a lot of power and it,s one that I seem to resist instead of just allow to pass through.wow, I am seeing fear is just a thought. Thank you.

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Ilona
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Re: I have just registered and would like some help

Postby Ilona » Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:10 pm

you are doing so well :)
yes, fear is there to guard you from seeing the nothingness.. and it does not need to be protected, as there is nothing there. void. emptiness. stillness....

and here there is THIS, right now, this moment.
can you look now at the thought, that there is no you as a separate being that is managing it's own life, all is life. can you find a line of separation? notice, that it is life life-ing, as in verb. thoughts pop up, scratch follows itch, breathing, reacting to environment is happening, but is there something that all is happening to? is there an experiencer of experience that is separate from experiencing?

shoot.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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catherine
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Re: I have just registered and would like some help

Postby catherine » Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:52 pm

Is there an experiencer of experience that is separate from experience?

OK, hearing the buzz of the laptop is happening now, there is the experience of hearing sound but when I look for a hearer that is separate from the experience of hearing I can't find one.....
there's tingling sensation in my feet, there is the experience of feeling the tingling but when I look for a tingler that is separate from the experience I can't find one , the tingler and the tingling are one...wow....There is no experiencer that is separate from the experience of tingling or no hearer that is separate from the experience of hearing
there is just the tinging happening and the hearing happening..
So in answer, no there is no experiencer of experience that is separate from the seeing, hearing and feeling sensations,there is just the experience of seeing the objects in the room, photos , cards, lamp but no seer
Without experiencing experiences there is just a feeling of spaciousness.

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Ilona
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Re: I have just registered and would like some help

Postby Ilona » Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:41 pm

wow.
all right then add the layer of thoughts, notice that thoughts about experience are also part of experience, is there a thinker of thoughts?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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catherine
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Re: I have just registered and would like some help

Postby catherine » Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:55 pm

Thoughts about experiences are also part of experiences, is there a thinker of thoughts?

Thoughts seem to come by themselves but it feels as if some thoughts lead to me taking actions or making future decisions and those ones seem personal, like there is a me making decisions to do something for example the thought comes go into a quiet room to sit with this question and then I act on it.I feel stuck on this as I can watch the thoughts happening but don't know if they are they unrelated to any action that might seem to follow?


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