would like an experienced guide here please

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janani
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would like an experienced guide here please

Postby janani » Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:10 pm

Hi
I am a 21 years old, based in india. I have been restless and intrigued by the concept of self and breaking away from it. My spiritual beliefs are heavily influenced by hinduism and 2 years ago I underwent a spiritual process-looking into the self. That has only left me more confused and restless than before.
I truly believe that language is an entrapment and hence I don't know if I Have fully conveyed whatever is going on.
I was introduced to LU by a friend who has been greatly benefitted by it. I would like for an experienced guide to be willing to have a conversation with me and guide me through the gateless gate.

Much love

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joeylott
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Re: would like an experienced guide here please

Postby joeylott » Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:28 pm

Hello, Janani. And welcome to LU.

My name is Joey. And I would be very happy to guide you here.

You say that your spiritual beliefs are heavily influenced by Hinduism. That is fine. All of us come with beliefs that are shaped by our cultures and experiences. The question is, are you willing to explore the assumptions with openness? If so, then we can work together. Beliefs are not a problem so long as you are willing to question everything with deep and radical honesty.

You also say that the process of looking that began 2 years ago has left you confused and restless. That too is not a problem as long as you are willing to explore with openness. Be willing to question what you think you know, and we can work together just fine.

There are a few formalities that I would like to go through first to make sure that we are in agreement prior to getting started.

If you have not yet, please read the disclaimer at the LU website: http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

Once you have read that, please confirm.

Next, here are a few guidelines that I would like you to read before we begin.

1. You agree to post at least once a day. And if you cannot for some reason, then please let me know. I commit to the same.
2. In general, I will ask the questions for you to respond to. If you have questions, then that is fine. However, generally, I will not answer questions. Rather, I will guide an exploration of the assumptions that underlie the questions.
3. Responses require your utmost honesty. It is important that you really explore your own experience directly and answer completely honestly. There is no right answer. There is only a truthful exploration. That is what we want.
4. Responses are best from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
5. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation. Approach this with openness and curiosity, simply to see what is as it is.

Please confirm that you have read and agree to these guidelines.

Once you have confirmed the above then I am very happy to begin exploring together.

Sincerely,
Joey

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janani
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Re: would like an experienced guide here please

Postby janani » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:37 pm

Hello joey!
You say that your spiritual beliefs are heavily influenced by Hinduism. That is fine. All of us come with beliefs that are shaped by our cultures and experiences. The question is, are you willing to explore the assumptions with openness?
I am willing to explore those assumptions with openness.

I confirm that I have read And understood the disclaimer at the LU website.
I also confirm that I have read the guidelines and I agree to them.

Curious and open to explore together.

Janani

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Re: would like an experienced guide here please

Postby joeylott » Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:07 pm

Janani,

Wonderful. Then let's begin.

I'll start by looking at a few of your statements and asking you to explore them and respond to some questions about them
I have been restless and intrigued by the concept of self and breaking away from it.
What is your concept of the self?
And what would it mean to break away from it?
By what means might you break away from it?
And who would you be once you had broken away?
I underwent a spiritual process-looking into the self.
How do you define a spiritual process?
What differentiates a spiritual process from a non-spiritual process?
Where do you look in order to look into the self?
Have you found anything that you can call the self?
Who is it that does the looking?
Are you separate from the looking?

And now, a few more questions.

What is your expectation about what will change by passing through the gate?
How will you know when this has occurred?

I look forward to hearing your responses.

Sincerely,
Joey

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Re: would like an experienced guide here please

Postby janani » Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:35 pm

Hi Joey

Your answers are in black.

What is your concept of the self? 

Self. It seems like whenever the mind is unable to specify the ownership of anything-be it a sensation,thought, emotion or even a physical thing, it labels it under the category-self (mine, yours, someone's). While I say this, I am acutely aware of the fact that it is not possible for such a category to gain form and exist independently without the process of compartmentalizing that seems to happen.

And what would it mean to break away from it? 

Breaking away from it would simply mean that all the effort that goes into labelling and diligently shoving any experience( including thoughts and emotions) into compartments becomes unnecessary. Everything will just be there, there is no right place for them to be but just wherever they appear. Maybe it'll be like watching a movie in HD-better quality images, maybe there won't be a need to focus on what belongs where and the thread of whole other emotions and thoughts and actions that those in turn might trigger, starting a tiresome cycle of more compartmentalizing. Maybe it'll just be an acceptance that the mind does certain things for its own joy. (As I typed it out, I couldn't help but smile at this statement. Mind doing something for its amusement. Makes sense in language but the fact is that it is not possible and the statement is a result of mere compartmentalizing). I hope I make sense. It seems a bit mushy. Like there is something I want to save from drowning in a mudpit but I can't quite locate the cry for help.

By what means might you break away from it? 

I think I'll be able to break away from it if I manage to destroy all the labels/compartments that I seem to heavily rely upon to experience an experience.

And who would you be once you had broken away?

I wouldn't be anyone or anything once that happens. That's the whole point isn't it? I want to say that I'll be a true experiencer of life but that doesn't quite seem right. The closest I can come up with is a vessel through which life flows, unobstructed, untamed. I am being completely honest with you when I say that I want to say I'll be life (being one with it would imply that) but it seems so radical and scary that I almost don't want to.

How do you define a spiritual process? 

A journey which questions the unknown constantly. When I say unknown, I mean anything and everything which triggers a why or a how.

What differentiates a spiritual process from a non-spiritual process? 

Honestly, I don't think there is a difference. Because anything can trigger the Enquiry that I mentioned above. As I was trying to think what a non-spiritual process could entail, there was this overwhelming sense of shame and the thought- how can there be a non spiritual process? Outside, the dogs are howling, there is a leaky tap in the house somewhere and my fingers seem to know exactly how to type. There is nothing non-spiritual about any of these things.

Where do you look in order to look into the self? 

Where do I look? How do I look into something that has no form or shape? It's like saying I looked into air. Except at least there, you can feel the breeze on your face. Self exists only in words. Words exist only in language and language is man's doing. Having said that, I don't think I quite understand the importance of the statement I just made. Because there are a lot of emotions in conflict. I want to cry-my eyes well up but there is also this eery calm almost like a smirk. But I am not the one smirking. Understand? I am so sorry if I am rambling without making any sense.

Have you found anything that you can call the self? 

I think I covered this in the previous question.

Who is it that does the looking? 

I am trying to find a better word than me (because that would just fall under self- there is no me right) I think there is just looking happening. That's it.

Are you separate from the looking?

I don't think so

What is your expectation about what will change by passing through the gate?

Honestly, I don't think anything will change. Maybe there'll just be acceptance of things as they are.

How will you know when this has occurred?

I don't know. I want to say that there will be a remarkable reduction in the need to label things and allot ownership to experiences as they happen but I am not completely satisfied with it. Clarity, maybe. I honestly don't know. Is that okay or could it be a cause for panic?

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joeylott
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Re: would like an experienced guide here please

Postby joeylott » Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:46 pm

Janani,

Thank you for your honest responses. Honesty such as this is essential for clear seeing. So this is very good to see.
It seems like whenever the mind is unable to specify the ownership of anything-be it a sensation,thought, emotion or even a physical thing, it labels it under the category-self (mine, yours, someone's).
There are a few points to examine here.

First, you mention the mind. Notice how you are starting with the presumption that the mind exists. So let's examine this. Right now, take a look directly, unmediated by thought, and locate the mind. What do you find? What is your proof of the mind?

Next, you mention a condition when the mind is unable to assign ownership of something. So I am naturally curious to know if there is a condition in which you find that you can successfully assign ownership of something? For example, can you ever successfully assign ownership of a sensation, a thought, or an emotion? To whom can you successfully assign ownership? What is your proof?
it is not possible for such a category to gain form and exist independently without the process of compartmentalizing that seems to happen.
Does compartmentalizing actually endow anything with independence?
Who does the compartmentalizing? Examine any assumption that underlies your answer to this question. Be certain that you can actually find and identify the one who does the compartmentalizing.
Breaking away from it would simply mean that all the effort that goes into labelling and diligently shoving any experience( including thoughts and emotions) into compartments becomes unnecessary.
I'd like you to take a look at what you call the effort that goes into labeling and so forth. Notice the assumption here. You assume that the effort is coming from someone (you?) and that it is doing something. See if this is actually true in direct experience. What I mean when I say direct experience is that I would like you to examine this phenomenon of "effort that goes into labeling" and see if it is as you have assumed it is, and do this unmediated by thought. See if you can find the separation between the one from whom the energy is supposedly originating and the appearance that you call labeling. See if anything is actually happening. And do all of this unmediated by thought. Allow whatever thoughts happen to happen. But give full attention to direct sensing instead of following the narrative of thought. And what do you find? Who is putting forth the effort? Is there anyone to own this experience? What is your relationship to what is happening? And provide your proof that this is so.
Everything will just be there, there is no right place for them to be but just wherever they appear.
How is what you describe here different from what is already happening?
Maybe it'll be like watching a movie in HD-better quality images, maybe there won't be a need to focus on what belongs where and the thread of whole other emotions and thoughts and actions that those in turn might trigger, starting a tiresome cycle of more compartmentalizing.
What if what you call "the need to focus" and "the thread of whole other emotions, etc." are simply more phenomena no different than colors, shapes, smells, and sensations? What is your proof that these particular phenomena ("the need to focus" and "the thread of whole other emotions") are yours? Can you find the separate self who takes ownership of these things? Is there a findable boundary between you and these phenomena?
I think I'll be able to break away from it if I manage to destroy all the labels/compartments that I seem to heavily rely upon to experience an experience.
In what way will you destroy the labels and compartments? Is this not more of the same pattern of assuming that what appears is a problem?

Who will destroy all the labels and compartments? And what will that one find upon destroying all the labels? What exists outside of the labels? Why is what exists outside of labels more desirable than the labels?

What makes labels and compartments problematic? In what way do they confine you?

What if the labels and compartments aren't a problem? What if the one who imagines that it will destroy the labels and compartments is a fiction defined entirely by the mistaken belief that the labels and compartments are problematic?
I wouldn't be anyone or anything once that happens. That's the whole point isn't it?
So are you saying that the labels and compartments define you as someone?
What are you made of that you can be defined as such?

And no, I would not say that becoming no one is the whole point. In my view the "point," as it were, is to discover yourself as you already are. This is not a process of becoming. This is a process of revelation of what already is. So if something has to change, then that is not it.
I want to say that I'll be a true experiencer of life but that doesn't quite seem right. The closest I can come up with is a vessel through which life flows, unobstructed, untamed.
Each of these statements implies that your goal is to become something subtly apart from life. If you are the experiencer then you are that which experiences life. If you are the vessel then you are that through which life flows.

Will this goal of being the experiencer of the vessel truly satisfy you?

Look right now and notice if there is actually a boundary between you and the actuality of experience. Right now some experience is happening. You are reading these words. There are sensations in the body. There are sounds. So notice if you can actually find a boundary between you and the experience. We normally assume that every experience must have an experiencer. But see if this is actually true. Can you actually locate and define (non-conceptually) the one who could possibly be the experiencer when you look to direct experience unmediated by thought or concept?
I am being completely honest with you when I say that I want to say I'll be life (being one with it would imply that) but it seems so radical and scary that I almost don't want to.
I can tell that you are being very honest throughout your response. And I appreciate that very much. That is very important for this process.

You say (with some trepidation) that you will be life. So take a look and see if this is not already the case. Can you find a boundary between you and life?
A journey which questions the unknown constantly. When I say unknown, I mean anything and everything which triggers a why or a how.
What would knowing the unknown give you? What would be the benefit?

I will suggest to you that during our process together (and I don't suggest that we are engaged in a spiritual process, by the way) you may find it much more fruitful to flip this around. Instead of questioning the unknown, I suggest that you question the known. If you believe that you know something, then investigate that. And leave the unknown alone for now. The unknown is just fine as the unknown.
there was this overwhelming sense of shame and the thought- how can there be a non spiritual process?
You say that you feel a sense of shame. Undoubtedly a sense of shame happens. But what is your proof that you feel it? How can you know that it is your sense, your experience?
But I am not the one smirking.
How would you know if you were the one smirking? What would be the evidence that would prove that you were doing it versus the experience of smirking that you are not doing?
I am trying to find a better word than me (because that would just fall under self- there is no me right) I think there is just looking happening. That's it.
There is some uncertainty in your response. Please look directly and see if you can find the one who is looking. When I say directly I mean to rely only on direct sensing versus thought or concept.
Honestly, I don't think anything will change. Maybe there'll just be acceptance of things as they are.
Would acceptance of things as they are be a change? Would that be different from what is happening right now?
I don't know. I want to say that there will be a remarkable reduction in the need to label things and allot ownership to experiences as they happen but I am not completely satisfied with it. Clarity, maybe. I honestly don't know. Is that okay or could it be a cause for panic?
I am happy to hear that you don't know. Stay with not knowing. :)

I look forward to hearing your responses. And please, throughout, answer only from direct experience. If you have any doubts about what I mean by that, then please let me know.

Sincerely,
Joey

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janani
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Re: would like an experienced guide here please

Postby janani » Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:42 pm

So this is what i was referring to when I said ownership. I can't assign it individually to anything or anyone.

janani wrote:
it is not possible for such a category to gain form and exist independently without the process of compartmentalizing that seems to happen.
Does compartmentalizing actually endow anything with independence?
I din't understand this question.could you give me an example please?
Who does the compartmentalizing? Examine any assumption that underlies your answer to this question. Be certain that you can actually find and identify the one who does the compartmentalizing.
The immediate and the closest I got to this is: The dominating "I-thoughts" through their weaving of all things happening, the compartmentalizing also happens. Oh god, it is also just an occurrence like hearing! I just realised this. That is tremendous. Don't you think? My fingers just went cold.
I'd like you to take a look at what you call the effort that goes into labeling and so forth. Notice the assumption here. You assume that the effort is coming from someone (you?) and that it is doing something. See if this is actually true in direct experience. What I mean when I say direct experience is that I would like you to examine this phenomenon of "effort that goes into labeling" and see if it is as you have assumed it is, and do this unmediated by thought. See if you can find the separation between the one from whom the energy is supposedly originating and the appearance that you call labeling. See if anything is actually happening. And do all of this unmediated by thought. Allow whatever thoughts happen to happen. But give full attention to direct sensing instead of following the narrative of thought. And what do you find? Who is putting forth the effort? Is there anyone to own this experience? What is your relationship to what is happening? And provide your proof that this is so.
It doesn't seem to be true. everything is happening and the thought 'this is happening to me' rings the loudest. that is also a thought. that is it. I am thinking, I am eating, I am studying. All thoughts, just the same as a breeze blowing or a dog barking. there is no one to own anything. it all happens. that is. my relationship? I am what is happening. I can only relate to something when i am separate from it.
janani wrote:
Everything will just be there, there is no right place for them to be but just wherever they appear.


How is what you describe here different from what is already happening?
It won't be different. the combinations of various occurrences might differ but they occur. each moment is an experience as a whole. now. now. now. they just happen
What if what you call "the need to focus" and "the thread of whole other emotions, etc." are simply more phenomena no different than colors, shapes, smells, and sensations? What is your proof that these particular phenomena ("the need to focus" and "the thread of whole other emotions") are yours? Can you find the separate self who takes ownership of these things? Is there a findable boundary between you and these phenomena?
They are the same as others Joey!! Really! there is no ownership. that is also a sensation. there is more anxiety but there is also calm. Do I make sense Joey? I am so sorry.

Okay i typed out everything and i got logged out before it got posted. I will answer everything indetail again tomorrow. I am so sorry I have to go so I am saying the following in brief.

i experience no boundaries. there is no need to link each individual occurrence. they all occur. life occurs now and I am life. experience is life.

thank you Joey!
so much love!

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joeylott
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Re: would like an experienced guide here please

Postby joeylott » Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:56 pm

Janani,

Thank you for your wonderful responses. It really sounds as though you are starting to see clearly.
Does compartmentalizing actually endow anything with independence?
I din't understand this question.could you give me an example please?
What I intended with the question is this: you originally had written that "it is not possible for such a category to gain form and exist independently without the process of compartmentalizing that seems to happen." That statement suggests that a category can gain form and exist independently WITH the process of compartmentalizing. So my question was simply to ask if it is, in fact, true that anything can ever gain form and exist independently? And if so, please give specific examples that illustrate this.
The immediate and the closest I got to this is: The dominating "I-thoughts" through their weaving of all things happening, the compartmentalizing also happens. Oh god, it is also just an occurrence like hearing! I just realised this. That is tremendous. Don't you think? My fingers just went cold.
It sounds to me as though you have just seen through a very important assumption. This is very good! I will ask you some questions now to explore this a bit more.

Is there a thinker of thoughts?
You say that "it is also just an occurrence like hearing." Is there anything that is not "just an occurrence?"
You say that you "just realized this." To whom does the realization occur? Is realization any different than those things that are "just an occurrence?"
It doesn't seem to be true. everything is happening and the thought 'this is happening to me' rings the loudest. that is also a thought. that is it. I am thinking, I am eating, I am studying. All thoughts, just the same as a breeze blowing or a dog barking. there is no one to own anything. it all happens. that is. my relationship? I am what is happening. I can only relate to something when i am separate from it.
Again, this sounds very clear. I believe you have seen through some very important assumptions. This is great. Now I will ask you a few questions to explore this a bit further.

Are thoughts occurring to anyone? Is there someone to receive the thoughts?
It won't be different. the combinations of various occurrences might differ but they occur. each moment is an experience as a whole. now. now. now. they just happen
Once again, this is very clear.

I know we've explored this before, but I would like you to look once more right now and see if there is any possibility that you can control what occurs. Do you have any ability to choose or influence what happens?
They are the same as others Joey!! Really! there is no ownership. that is also a sensation. there is more anxiety but there is also calm. Do I make sense Joey? I am so sorry.
The first part makes perfect sense. It sounds as though you are seeing very clearly that there is no ownership. That is very good.

The second part you wrote about anxiety and calm I didn't understand. Perhaps you could rephrase that.
Okay i typed out everything and i got logged out before it got posted. I will answer everything indetail again tomorrow. I am so sorry I have to go so I am saying the following in brief.
That is quite alright. No need to be sorry. Unfortunately it is a common occurrence on this forum that users lose what they have written because they get logged out by the system. I am sorry that I did not mention that to you sooner. From now on you may find it better to write your responses in a text editor and then copy and paste into the forum reply when you are ready to post it.

And I look forward to hearing the rest of your responses in more detail tomorrow.
i experience no boundaries. there is no need to link each individual occurrence. they all occur. life occurs now and I am life. experience is life.
This also sounds quite clear.

Sincerely,
Joey

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janani
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Re: would like an experienced guide here please

Postby janani » Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:02 pm

Hello Joey

I am really sorry for the delay. My evernote crashed and I couldn't retrieve. Again. Sigh. So all over again, here I go:

In what way will you destroy the labels and compartments? Is this not more of the same pattern of assuming that what appears is a problem?

Who will destroy all the labels and compartments? And what will that one find upon destroying all the labels? What exists outside of the labels? Why is what exists outside of labels more desirable than the labels?

What makes labels and compartments problematic? In what way do they confine you?

What if the labels and compartments aren't a problem? What if the one who imagines that it will destroy the labels and compartments is a fiction defined entirely by the mistaken belief that the labels and compartments are problematic?


There are no labels. That there are is a story which in turn is an occurrence in its own right. It is all fiction giving some false sense of reality. Like a smokescreen covering your eyes.

So are you saying that the labels and compartments define you as someone?
What are you made of that you can be defined as such
?

There is no one to define here. I don't exist to be defined. Thoughts, sensations, emotions-everything happens. Life happens. Now. Right now.

Look right now and notice if there is actually a boundary between you and the actuality of experience. Right now some experience is happening. You are reading these words. There are sensations in the body. There are sounds. So notice if you can actually find a boundary between you and the experience. We normally assume that every experience must have an experiencer. But see if this is actually true. Can you actually locate and define (non-conceptually) the one who could possibly be the experiencer when you look to direct experience unmediated by thought or concept?


There are no boundaries because I am not separate from the experiences that happen. I am it. There is no one to experience it because I am the experience. It happens now. I am life ( to best put it in words)

What would knowing the unknown give you? What would be the benefit?


Honestly, I don't know. I no longer see the need to look for the unknown. There is no future or past. Only the present. Only right now. Like you said, let the unknown be it. Life happens now that's all there is to it. I know I am saying the same thing again but I am literally at a loss for words and acutely aware of the inadequacy of language to communicate.

Would acceptance of things as they are be a change? Would that be different from what is happening right now?

It won't be a change. Acceptance is also an occurrence, just like everything else. Every moment is unique as it is. It's ever flowing yet there is no need to link.

What I intended with the question is this: you originally had written that "it is not possible for such a category to gain form and exist independently without the process of compartmentalizing that seems to happen." That statement suggests that a category can gain form and exist independently WITH the process of compartmentalizing. So my question was simply to ask if it is, in fact, true that anything can ever gain form and exist independently? And if so, please give specific examples that illustrate this.

The process is an occurrence, the thought that links the individual events also happens but it no longer is the only reality. Reality is that all these things are happening. That's it. So to answer your question, there is nothing to gain form and though they occur independently, they can't exist separately. They form now. That is all.

Is there a thinker of thoughts?
You say that "it is also just an occurrence like hearing." Is there anything that is not "just an occurrence?"

There is no thinker. Thoughts occur.

You say that you "just realized this." To whom does the realization occur? Is realization any different than those things that are "just an occurrence
?"

When I said 'I realised it', I meant along with the music, the typing, the thoughts, sensations and the friend working across the table, realization also formed the present that was. Hence it is no different from any other occurrence.

I know we've explored this before, but I would like you to look once more right now and see if there is any possibility that you can control what occurs. Do you have any ability to choose or influence what happens?


There is no controller to control anything. I don't exist to have a choice. Things happen. Now. They are what they are, there is no need to connect them and believe that story to be true. When the weaving happens, it happens. It is also an occurrence. As simple as that.

janani wrote:They are the same as others Joey!! Really! there is no ownership. that is also a sensation. there is more anxiety but there is also calm. Do I make sense Joey? I am so sorry.

The first part makes perfect sense. It sounds as though you are seeing very clearly that there is no ownership. That is very good.

The second part you wrote about anxiety and calm I didn't understand. Perhaps you could rephrase that.


I just typed out the conflict in emotions that I was present to as they are. Not as the false reality that generally masks what it is.

Thank you so much for your patience Joey!

Looking forward to your response

Much love

Janani

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Re: would like an experienced guide here please

Postby joeylott » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:19 pm

Janani,

From what you have written it sounds as though you are very clear. So I would like to now ask just a few simple questions.

Is there a separate self?
Does any doubt remain?
Do you feel that anything more is needed to be the freedom that you are?

Please remember that our only goal in this conversation is clarity. So please let me know if you still feel that anything is missing or if you feel that we need to do any further exploration to reveal clarity.

If you feel that we need to explore further together then I am very happy to do that.

If you do not feel that we need to explore further (i.e. you feel that you have passed the gateless gate,) then I will ask you some standard questions in order to make sure that we've covered everything and to give the other guides here an opportunity to review and see if they have any questions they would like to ask you.

Sincerely,
Joey

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Re: would like an experienced guide here please

Postby janani » Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:20 am

Hello Joey,

Is there a separate self?
Does any doubt remain?


There is nothing separate called the self. Everything is a happening. Nothing changed really. Except they are just what they are. I could say the mirage of the self appears as it is and not as the reality of things. Hence, I can't explain how it was before and how it is now because there isn't anything to compare to. Crystal clear it is. The simplicity is just amazing. So there is no doubt here.

Do you feel that anything more is needed to be the freedom that you are?

No. There is no need for something to happen in order to be the freedom that I am. There is no choice in what happens so how can something be needed in order to achieve something else. I am freedom. I am the present. Present is now and now is life. Wow.

The gateless gate. Makes sense. But I can't seem to put it in words. I am there. Thank you for talking me through it.

Love

Janani

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Re: would like an experienced guide here please

Postby joeylott » Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:27 pm

Janani,

Wonderful. I am very happy to hear your report!

Now I'm going to ask you some standard questions that we pose to everyone at this stage. Some of these questions I have already asked you in other ways previously. Please answer them again. The other guides can read your responses and then they will let me know if they have any further questions to ask you.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works
from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this
dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in life? Do you make anything
happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?

Thank you, Janani, I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,
Joey

User avatar
janani
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:55 pm

Re: would like an experienced guide here please

Postby janani » Sun Mar 16, 2014 4:14 am

Hi Joey
Here are your answers:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? 
Was there ever? 

There is no separate entity called the self, not in any shape or form. There wasn't one ever.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works 
from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now. 

The illusion of a separate self started as a single thought. ( which I see now as an occurrence.) The need for connecting any occurring event, began to overpower and mask the actual simple truth leaving a well woven tale in front of my eyes as the only reality. So any sensation, emotion, et al that happened, was a phenomenon directed towards 'me' or what 'I' felt. I don't see a separate self now. To me, the term self now is a futile word- filler in language. I am also present to the possibility that what i just typed could also be a story. anything could happen!

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this 
dialogue? Please report from the past few days. 

I don't know. I can't really explain. These aren't part of a new phenomena. They occur when they do and just do so. That's all. One thing I can clearly say is that keeping up with the illusion of self is a lot of hard work and distress. Now I'm free.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? 

I don't knows really. It just happened. I want to say I was really restless and frustrated and that fuelled the search, but that is not the case. It all just came together. That's all.

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in life? Do you make anything 
happen? Give examples from your experience. 

There is no me here to decide or choose or control anything. When that is the case, how can I make anything happen? Things and events just occur. As they are. There is no choice there.

6) Anything to add?

Thanks a lot Joey. I could not have done this without you.

Love

Janani

User avatar
joeylott
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:32 am

Re: would like an experienced guide here please

Postby joeylott » Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:41 pm

Janani,

Thank you. I will ask the other guides to read this and see if they have any questions for you. I'll be getting back to you soon.

Sincerely,
Joey

User avatar
janani
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:55 pm

Re: would like an experienced guide here please

Postby janani » Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:11 pm

Shall wait for your response :)

Janani


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