Thread for April

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Nettie
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Thread for April

Postby Nettie » Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:46 pm

Dear April,
I will be happy to be your guide.

Here are a few ground rules,
1. You agree to post at least once a day, even if only to say, "still here!"
I am not your teacher, all I can do is point, you look, until clear seeing happens.
2. In general, I will ask questions, you look deeply and honestly, and respond.
3. Responses require simple, uncontrived honest looking. There are no wrong or right answers.
4. Responses are best from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers, and stream of consciousness answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
5. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
6. Please learn to use the quote function; instructions are located in the link below this line:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660”

If you haven't already seen it, there is intro info here, our disclaimer and a short video too.
http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

This is an utterly intimate honest deep looking. Keep the focus on yourself. Keep it simple.

If you could confirm you have seen all the above and would like me to be your guide - then we shall begin.

What are your expectations for this process?
How will it change you?
How will this feel?
You can press 'subscribe to this topic in the blue bar at the bottom of this page and receive an email every time I post here. Some report its easier to write their response somewhere else and then copy it to avoid time running out on the forum.

Nettie

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April Minkler
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Re: Thread for April

Postby April Minkler » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:10 am

Forgot to say: i would like you to be my guide. Have read all and responded spontaneously. ~april

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Nettie
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Re: Thread for April

Postby Nettie » Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:27 am

Dear April,
What are your expectations for this process?
How will it change you?
How will this feel?
Love
Nettie

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April Minkler
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Re: Thread for April

Postby April Minkler » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:31 am

What are your expectations for this process? i wish to see clearly that which has been the construct i have called "i" and to be able to experience "i" without the construct (history, habits, family traits etc.)
How will it change you? i will be in present without the trappings of what i assumed was "I" not stuck between
who i thought i was and who i was afraid i might be.
How will this feel? i don't know. Right now it feels tentatively spacious and afraid around the edges, like a rug with stuff that's been swept under it and the corners of the rug have been flipped up.

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Nettie
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Re: Thread for April

Postby Nettie » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:38 am

Dear April,

What are your expectations for this process?
i wish to see clearly that which has been the construct i have called "i" and to be able to experience "i" without the construct (history, habits, family traits etc.)

Who would be experiencing this?

How will it change you?
"i will be in present without the trappings of what i assumed was "I" not stuck between
who i thought i was and who i was afraid i might be."

What are you referring to when you use the word I?
Does it have shape or color...
Any qualities or characteristics that are un-changing?
Can you bring it to me and put it on the shelf?

"How will this feel? i don't know. Right now it feels tentatively spacious and afraid around the edges, like a rug with stuff that's been swept under it and the corners of the rug have been flipped up."

Cast aside all expectations as this is beyond belief...beyond imagination.

Now simply relax and notice without trying to figure it out.. The nature of thought.
Can you remember all the thoughts you had yesterday?
Can you predict the thoughts you will have tomorrow?
If you were the thinker of thoughts you would probably have nice pleasant thoughts yes?
Are you the thinker of your thoughts?

Love,
Nettie

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April Minkler
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Re: Thread for April

Postby April Minkler » Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:02 pm

who will be experiencing this is me, april, as a sort of workstation for Life. just the "hereness" which is breath, vision, hearing, touch, perception.
'i' refers to my identity, april. the workstation has shape and color, etc but the identity, no. nothing 'there' that i can find. nothing that isn't changing all the time. i can't bring it to you. nothing to put on a shelf.
i cannot control the thoughts that occur. i can only monitor them and critique them; i remember no thoughts from yesterday, really not from today either. there is a -- flavor -- which i guess is emotion? -- a habit of criticism of self which i used to think was what made 'me' try to be a good person. it is a relief to find i am not the thinker of my thoughts, just a, maybe a grid through which they pass. easier not to hold onto them to make sense, or changes, or whatever else. With gratitude for the questions, ~april

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Nettie
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Re: Thread for April

Postby Nettie » Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:55 pm

Dear April,

"who will be experiencing this is me, april, as a sort of workstation for Life. just the "hereness" which is breath, vision, hearing, touch, perception."

Look for the me.


"'i' refers to my identity, april. the workstation has shape and color, etc but the identity, no. nothing 'there' that i can find. nothing that isn't changing all the time. i can't bring it to you. nothing to put on a shelf.
i cannot control the thoughts that occur. i can only monitor them and critique them;"

Who or what is monitoring them?
Can you find a separate you?

" i remember no thoughts from yesterday, really not from today either. there is a -- flavor -- which i guess is emotion? -- a habit of criticism of self which i used to think was what made 'me' try to be a good person. it is a relief to find i am not the thinker of my thoughts, "

YES!

"just a, maybe a grid through which they pass. easier not to hold onto them to make sense, or changes, or whatever else."
Thoughts happen to a you?
Can you find it?

Can you tell when one thought ends and another begins?

Can you capture a thought or would that be the next thought?

Love,
Nettie

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April Minkler
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Re: Thread for April

Postby April Minkler » Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:21 pm

Looking for the 'me' there isn't one. 'i' seem to be 'located' somewhere between my eyes and nose but there is nothing 'there' either. Increasingly 'what' was monitoring the thoughts is absent. Replaced mostly by a (!) which is happy. There used to be another sort of layer that was always evaluating everything relative to some invisible standard, past and present, measuring and finding fault. 'it' is gone. Not even sure 'what' a thought is now. No way to capture or remember them or know when one begins and ends. And what a 'me' is, is getting very fuzzy, amorphous. No me, no problem!! :):) Gratefully, ~april
ps thank you for the acorn pic. could not be more wonderful.

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April Minkler
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Re: Thread for April

Postby April Minkler » Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:22 pm

responding to the last one seen.

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Nettie
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Re: Thread for April

Postby Nettie » Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:04 am

Dear April,
"Looking for the 'me' there isn't one. 'i' seem to be 'located' somewhere between my eyes and nose but there is nothing 'there' either. Increasingly 'what' was monitoring the thoughts is absent. Replaced mostly by a (!) which is happy. There used to be another sort of layer that was always evaluating everything relative to some invisible standard, past and present, measuring and finding fault. 'it' is gone. Not even sure 'what' a thought is now. No way to capture or remember them or know when one begins and ends. And what a 'me' is, is getting very fuzzy, amorphous. No me, no problem!! :):) "

YAY!
So is there a thinker a decider a chooser a conductor?
Was there ever one?

Notice what is really going on.
There is an endless un-stoppable stream an avalanche a symphony of what we call perception.
It arises absolutely spontaneously without our having to do anything.
All is simultaneously effortlessly recognized..
There is knowing of flower...or whatever at the moment it is perceived ....the perceiving of it is inseparable from the perception.
Like heat and fire...
Or wetness and water....

Can you find a separate Perceiver?
Is there a separate you who can stand outside of this timeless flowing and change it or re-arrange it in any way?
If you were the controller of your life it would probably have worked out better by now.....
If you were the thinker you'd probably only have nice thoughts and no doubt...

Does life simply happen?
All by itself?
Un-bidden
Un-caused
Un-capturable
Effortlessly?
Even the perception of effort arises effortlessly.....
Wow...........................
Love,
Nettie

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April Minkler
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Re: Thread for April

Postby April Minkler » Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:55 pm

Dear Nettie ~ WOW just about says it all, except maybe YIPPEE, FAR OUT, and WOO HOOOO! Life being like it is 'here' is so good it couldn't have been orchestrated by "me" as "i' couldn't have arranged things so exquisitely. For about the first 30 years there was no thinking; april was like a radar screen with no blips, but it seemed "thinking" was what made a person capable of "achievement" and "success" so i made a concerted effort to TEACH "'myself" to think. Only difference was head was full of noise and confusion. And watching sequence of 'thoughts' (what ARE thoughts, anyway!?) and judging, criticizing, putting down. Settling into this experience of flow is so freeing, i am so humbly grateful to the founders, finders, expressers of this lovely -- paradigm -- and to you for prompting and continuing to flip the rug over... have to go play a gig in one of two bands in which i participate... (Bazzania) -- doing a church service with a group of Episcopal ladies on retreat...get to sing two of april's favorite songs, Gentle Arms of Eden and Shores of Jordan. Smiling and sending ((((HUGS)))) till later, Love, april

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Nettie
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Re: Thread for April

Postby Nettie » Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:32 pm

Dear April

~ WOW just about says it all, except maybe YIPPEE, FAR OUT, and WOO HOOOO! Life being like it is 'here' is so good it couldn't have been orchestrated by "me" as "i' couldn't have arranged things so exquisitely. For about the first 30 years there was no thinking; april was like a radar screen with no blips, but it seemed "thinking" was what made a person capable of "achievement" and "success" so i made a concerted effort to TEACH "'myself" to think. Only difference was head was full of noise and confusion. And watching sequence of 'thoughts' (what ARE thoughts, anyway!?) and judging, criticizing, putting down. Settling into this experience of flow is so freeing, i am so humbly grateful to the founders, finders, expressers of this lovely -- paradigm -- and to you for prompting and continuing to flip the rug over... have to go play a gig in one of two bands in which i participate... (Bazzania) -- doing a church service with a group of Episcopal ladies on retreat...get to sing two of april's favorite songs, Gentle Arms of Eden and Shores of Jordan. Smiling and sending ((((HUGS)))) till later, Love, april"

Yippee!!!
Yay!!!
No separate self!
No thinker!
No chooser!

Was there ever one?

How do you suppose this illusion starts?

Love,
Nettie
(Have fun playing!)

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April Minkler
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Re: Thread for April

Postby April Minkler » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:56 am

ray (most esteemed husband) and i were talking about that and wondered if Life wasn't just having the best time creating all these points of view interacting so as to get a lot of perspectives on Itself...i do wonder where the thoughts come from...
Love, april (it was great fun)

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Nettie
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Re: Thread for April

Postby Nettie » Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:54 am

Dear April,
Glad you had fun!
So please elaborate on what it is like for you.
Have you seen through the illusion of a separate self?
Was there ever one?
How do you suppose that illusion begins?
Is there a chooser, a thinker, a do-er a controller?
What is it like in your daily experience ...please give examples...
Much love,
Nettie

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April Minkler
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Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:18 pm

Re: Thread for April

Postby April Minkler » Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:02 am

Dear Nettie ~ Been thinking about this all day. Usually words are not a problem but this...this is tough to express. I have seen through the illusion of a separate self, and it is a great relief for me. AND it is kind of unfamiliar, and sort of like having lived in a house that had walls, and all at once the walls all fall down, and there is...unboundedness. And it's a little scary, having had those boundaries seem so real, and knowing i made them up; now there is nothing to fall back on, like, family history being an excuse for having a physical condition or a mental tendency. There is just possibility. In my daily life so far with this i notice most when i would have a critical reaction to something i had or hadn't done, the blame feeling is cut short. there is a sort of spreading warmth that takes the place of the shutting down or wincing back that used to happen. there is so much more joy available for the smallest reasons or for no reason. also connecting to other beings more fully and with appreciation for who they are; i notice a thought of judgment and just smile at it, and it dissipates...no more having to get out the whips and chains...Repetitive tasks (much of my job) are done in different, better ways without being thought out first. Music lines come unsought in the playing...used to learn something and try to do it the same way each time just to be 'right' (read, safe). No idea how the illusion begins except for parents saying to a child "you are, or are not, must, or must not, do, be etc. this or that". And a child believes them, and begins to construct this phenomenon, because don't we most of all want to belong, to be approved of, recognized, affirmed? Re chooser, thinker, do-er, controller: always struggled mightily with all, always failing. Mostly in my daily experience there is more silence within, a peace and settledness which translates as a sort of soft *OH* *YES* Love, ~april


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