Hello, requesting a guide

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Destiny
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Hello, requesting a guide

Postby Destiny » Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:21 am

I would like to explore the subject and have a guide. I am committed to doing it. thanks, Destiny

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smudge
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Re: Hello, requesting a guide

Postby smudge » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:54 am

Hi Destiny,

I am happy to guide you if you would like.

First, it is important you are receptive to whatever seeing the truth may mean,

Disclaimer from LU:
The method of inquiry used on this site may actually work, unlike many spiritual practices. It will likely change how you regard your self, your relationships, and your world. Neither you nor we can predict how this will turn out for you. If you are already mentally or emotionally fragile, it may exacerbate a mental condition or disorder. If you are currently relying on a prescription or self-prescribed substance to regulate your mood or your sanity, we strongly suggest you not enter into this process. Our guides are not therapists and cannot take responsibility for your mental health, before or after. If your relationships are unsatisfactory, they may improve, or they may not. If you have strong religious or spiritual beliefs, direct experience may support them, or (in our experience) not. You are at all times responsible for your honesty, integrity and focus. A leap into the unknown is just that. We will do everything we can to support it, insofar as we are volunteers working online, with attendant limitations.

We maintain several Facebook groups that allow people who have been through a forum process to discuss and work through common issues. These are not a substitute for any mental or physical help that you may need after Gate. None of the group participants is responsible for your well-being, or can be held liable for any advice. Adopt any more thoughts, concepts, or beliefs at your own risk.

Enter into this process if you are ready and willing to question all your beliefs and assumptions about awakening, if you are ready to face your fears, and if you prefer truth to comfortable lies. Do not enter if your goal is to fix the parts of your life that you think are broken, to embark on a self-improvement project, or to gain some kind of spiritual certification. Spiritual tourists will be taken to the airlock and launched into deep space.

Our contract:
We both agree to post at least once a day, unless we let each other know otherwise.
I will ask you questions and you will respond with upmost honesty. Responses are best from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
Lastly, Please learn to use the quote function; instructions are located in the link below this line: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660”

watch this video (at the bottom of the page) before we start http://www.liberationunleashed.com/ and then let me know if you are ready to really look deeply.

I look forward to hearing from you,
Smudge
"The bad news is you're falling, the good news is theres no ground" Trungpa

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Destiny
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Re: Hello, requesting a guide

Postby Destiny » Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:34 am

Hi Smudge,
Yes, I am ready to begin, I watched the video as requested. I am ready to look at this with an open mind. All I can do is my best. Destiny

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smudge
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Re: Hello, requesting a guide

Postby smudge » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:14 pm

Fabulous! Now we have got the formalities out of the way, lets make a start.

Write down a list all expectations from doing this process, go deep and lets have them all, even the hidden ones,

Looking forward to hearing
Smudge
"The bad news is you're falling, the good news is theres no ground" Trungpa

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Destiny
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Re: Hello, requesting a guide

Postby Destiny » Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:09 pm

Honestly Smudge,
I just have a little hope that things will make more sense is all, nothing spectacular. I want to understand life a bit better. :-)

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smudge
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Re: Hello, requesting a guide

Postby smudge » Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:52 pm

Hi Destiny,

You have invited a journey that will in all possibility result in realising that there is no you, there never has been and never will be. There is no you in there controlling things, as in zero.

What does this bring up for you?

Warm wishes
Smudge
"The bad news is you're falling, the good news is theres no ground" Trungpa

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Destiny
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Re: Hello, requesting a guide

Postby Destiny » Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:46 am

Hi Smudge, Well, when I think about it, we constantly change , it seems as if we are a process rather then a static being. So I guess there is no me in that sense. But I feel, think, sense, suffer, see, hear, etc. So then who is doing it? If there is no me. As for things being out of my control that is kind of easy, lol, life is always out of control or it seems that way anyhow. We start out with a plan and things just never go the way we plan them. I thought my life would be a lot different then it is now. So who is controlling things?

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smudge
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Re: Hello, requesting a guide

Postby smudge » Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:08 pm

Interesting reflections Destiny,
So who is controlling things
Good question:-)

When you say "I" and "me", what does that refer to in direct experience? Please describe in detail – does it have a shape? A size? A quality? Describe in detail what the actual experience of I is.

Looking forward to hearing,
"The bad news is you're falling, the good news is theres no ground" Trungpa

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Destiny
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Re: Hello, requesting a guide

Postby Destiny » Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:53 pm

I would say that the experience of I is my personality, who I have become over time due to experiences. On the other hand just the sum total of experiences doesn't seem like an I either. It just seems like experiences. Who is the one experiencing? My consciousness is experiencing. My consciousness looks at things in perhaps a different way then someone else does. but I keep looking and everytime, I look further, the experience of consciousness changes too. Hmmmm, what doesn't change? Okay, and I is my consciousness of my existence.

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smudge
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Re: Hello, requesting a guide

Postby smudge » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:03 pm

Hi Destiny,

Nice, I can feel you are searching for this me. Whats apparently been found is personality although you conclude..
It just seems like experiences
Who is the one experiencing?
Again good question...keep looking! Maybe ask what is experiencing..
My consciousness is experiencing.
Is it? or is there just experience?

Is there a separation between experience, experienced and experiencer? Look now, what is found.
"The bad news is you're falling, the good news is theres no ground" Trungpa

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Destiny
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Re: Hello, requesting a guide

Postby Destiny » Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:58 pm

Hello Smudge,

In answer to your last question, when I look at the separation issue, I don't think there is a separation, only because how could it happen without all the elements together , or it happens so fast it seems as if there is no separation,lol. I don't think there can be a separation. But then it implies that the experiencer and the experienced are the same thing. ?? hmmmm. Ex: there has to be an eye in order to see the light, but could the eye and the light be the same thing?

What or who is experiencing? It's a little confusing because it seems like either there is no experiencer and there has to be or everything is the experiencer. :-) lol I confused myself I think, hahaha.

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smudge
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Re: Hello, requesting a guide

Postby smudge » Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:57 am

I don't think there is a separation
This is a thought you are presenting, the only way to really find out the answers is to actually look right in the moment. Lets do an exercise that highlights the difference between a thought and the direct experience.

Do this: Please actually DO this exercise, simple as it may seem, take time: Take a sultana (or small piece of food) and look at it, now close your eyes and think about it, how 'did' it look? what do you 'think' it will taste like? How do you feel about the prospect of eating it or even about doing this exercise? Now put it in your mouth and directly experience it. Whats that like? What is the difference between thinking about, feeling and actually experiencing from this exercise?
"The bad news is you're falling, the good news is theres no ground" Trungpa

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Destiny
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Re: Hello, requesting a guide

Postby Destiny » Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:17 pm

I did the exercise, more then once actually. Thinking about it is just a thought story. I could tell myself anything really, but actually eating it , the texture, temperature, flavor, all the things that make up eating, the process happen automatically. I can't decide how something will taste to me. A self ( personality) is not needed to eat. Back to, is there a separation, thoughts tell me there is, because the senses tell me that I am feeling the keyboard and typing,on the other hand, I know these are not dependable indictors of what is. Thoughts can trick you and so can your senses.

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smudge
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Re: Hello, requesting a guide

Postby smudge » Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:24 pm

Good work Destiny,

You are beginning to see thoughts for what they are, just thoughts! and you have seen how to LOOK from Direct experience (DE), this is REALLY going to help.

So, from DE, are YOU the thinker of thoughts?

I look forward to what is found,

Warm wishes

Smudge
"The bad news is you're falling, the good news is theres no ground" Trungpa

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Destiny
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Re: Hello, requesting a guide

Postby Destiny » Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:38 am

Thanks Smudge,

So, from DE, are YOU the thinker of thoughts?

It seems that thoughts flow from conditioned response and are not necessarily a reliable indicator of what is real. On the other hand I am thinking of some famous thinkers like Einstein who seems to have come up with something original that wasn't seen before. So I guess I am wondering about that. I am certainly no Einstein,lol.

On the other hand when looking within I feel empty and as if there is no separation, but it seems also that there is direct experience of physical sensations, such as pain ,pleasure, etc. Perhaps I should think about whether any of these things require a self to happen.

I am curious, are you Native American, I have heard the word smudge in realtion to smudge pots, etc. Cleansing with white sage, :-).


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