Guide for a Buddhist requested.

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
User avatar
phoenix
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:38 pm

Guide for a Buddhist requested.

Postby phoenix » Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:47 am

Hello Those of You Who See the Truth!
I am looking for a Compassionate Guide to poke holes through the veil of my delusion.
I am hoping for one that might be familiar with Buddhist teachings, or with the familiarity of a deep faith and devotion to Truth.
I have been enjoying others dialogues and thinking about them. I suppose, now I would like someone to open my eyes to see.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Phoenix.

User avatar
smudge
Posts: 690
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:44 pm

Re: Guide for a Buddhist requested.

Postby smudge » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:06 pm

Hi Phoenix,
I would be happy to work with you if you would like. I am a Buddhist which was in your request.
First, it is important you are receptive to whatever seeing the truth may mean, please watch this video (at the bottom of the page) before we start http://www.liberationunleashed.com/ and then let me know if you are ready to really look deeply.
I look forward to hearing from you,
Smudge
"The bad news is you're falling, the good news is theres no ground" Trungpa

User avatar
smudge
Posts: 690
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:44 pm

Re: Guide for a Buddhist requested.

Postby smudge » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:18 pm

Hi Phoenix,

I received your email through admin. It sounds like you are ready to begin.
First read below thoroughly and let me know if you can agree to it all.

Disclaimer from LU:
The method of inquiry used on this site may actually work, unlike many spiritual practices. It will likely change how you regard your self, your relationships, and your world. Neither you nor we can predict how this will turn out for you. If you are already mentally or emotionally fragile, it may exacerbate a mental condition or disorder. If you are currently relying on a prescription or self-prescribed substance to regulate your mood or your sanity, we strongly suggest you not enter into this process. Our guides are not therapists and cannot take responsibility for your mental health, before or after. If your relationships are unsatisfactory, they may improve, or they may not. If you have strong religious or spiritual beliefs, direct experience may support them, or (in our experience) not. You are at all times responsible for your honesty, integrity and focus. A leap into the unknown is just that. We will do everything we can to support it, insofar as we are volunteers working online, with attendant limitations.

We maintain several Facebook groups that allow people who have been through a forum process to discuss and work through common issues. These are not a substitute for any mental or physical help that you may need after Gate. None of the group participants is responsible for your well-being, or can be held liable for any advice. Adopt any more thoughts, concepts, or beliefs at your own risk.

Enter into this process if you are ready and willing to question all your beliefs and assumptions about awakening, if you are ready to face your fears, and if you prefer truth to comfortable lies. Do not enter if your goal is to fix the parts of your life that you think are broken, to embark on a self-improvement project, or to gain some kind of spiritual certification. Spiritual tourists will be taken to the airlock and launched into deep space.

Our contract:
We both agree to post at least once a day, unless we let each other know otherwise.
I will ask you questions and you will respond with upmost honesty. Responses are best from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
Lastly, Please learn to use the quote function; instructions are located in the link below this line: http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

Warm wishes
Smudge

User avatar
phoenix
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:38 pm

Looking With Honesty

Postby phoenix » Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:45 am

Hello Smudge,
Yes I agree to the guidelines.
I have now watched that short clip "Looking with Honesty" a few times. I gained something new each time. I have to say the very most important thing "Desire" is something that I have but feel like it is weighed down. I do have willingness to see that I am wrong. I have done that too many times to recall. But somehow, I have had no realization. I like the idea transforming the power of the shock of recognizing there is no self, no "I". But use it for what? For looking? For experiencing?
The phrase of "we only need a few seconds of pure innocent awareness." Hopefully that comes soon.
Thanks again Smudge. I look forward to this process.
Best wishes
Phoenix

User avatar
smudge
Posts: 690
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:44 pm

Re: Guide for a Buddhist requested.

Postby smudge » Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:29 pm

Hi Phoenix,

Great, you sounds ready :-)

Lets begin by looking at your expectations. What do you expect from this process, how do you think it will feel and how do you expect it to change you? Just write from a flow of consciousness, lets see what comes..

Looking forward to you reply,

Smudge
"The bad news is you're falling, the good news is theres no ground" Trungpa

User avatar
phoenix
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:38 pm

Re: Guide for a Buddhist requested.

Postby phoenix » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:21 pm

Hello Smudge,
I expect to feel uncomfortable and wanting to squirm away. I expect the process to point out deficiencies and hypocrisies that I have before removing them away and granting me SPACE. I expect it to change me by freeing my energies and letting me live spontaneously, joyfully rather than having my "self" editing myself, tying myself in knots and weighing me down from past experiences. Freedom from the guilt, pain and embarrassment I have from past experiences. I expect to feel Hope and freshness to permeate my being. Hopefully that comes!
I hope to have all sight past all the sankaras that I have weighing me down now. And from my login name I am expecting:
Like a phoenix, to arise from the ashes (of the burnt "I") and to regenerate itself.

Are my expectations too many?
Thanks Smudge.
Phoenix

User avatar
smudge
Posts: 690
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:44 pm

Re: Guide for a Buddhist requested.

Postby smudge » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:12 pm

Thanks for you honest answer Phoenix,

Some of this is accurate and theres more, but for now I ask you to drop all expectations and look afresh.

There is no you, no controller in any shape or form in there, as in Zero! What comes up when you let this in?

Warmth,
Smudge
"The bad news is you're falling, the good news is theres no ground" Trungpa

User avatar
phoenix
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:38 pm

Re: Zero

Postby phoenix » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:50 am

Yes I will try to drop all expectations and look afresh.
I have been trying throughout the day to feel/understand this information you last said. I can sort of comprehend "there is no you." I can see (or not see) that there is no shape or form. But "no controller" is more difficult. Of course if there is no me - then there is no controller. But when I do something, like cleaning my room; I am controlling that. It is not just happening to me. And so there is the birth of the self again. Because if I am controlling things then there would have to be an "I." So I try to think again "there is no me. There is no controlling. And there is no anything to control." But then again I fall into thinking "If I don't control my work then I won't have a living, food, anything etc." But there is no thing. Zero. If I tell myself enough times, will comprehension come?

User avatar
phoenix
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:38 pm

Re: Guide for a Buddhist requested.

Postby phoenix » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:54 am

I forgot to all salutations and to say thank you!

User avatar
smudge
Posts: 690
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:44 pm

Zero

Postby smudge » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:34 am

Hi Phoenix,

Thank you for your answers. I can see the statement 'There is no I, no controller etc..' took you into thoughts. This is helpful information. Lets spend some time clearly seeing the difference between thoughts, feelings and direct experience. Please actually DO this exercise, simple as it may seem: Take a sultana (or small piece of food) and look at it, now close your eyes and think about it, how 'did' it look? what do you 'think' it will taste like? How do you feel about the prospect of eating it or even about doing this exercise? Now put it in your mouth and directly experience it. Whats that like? What is the difference between thinking about, feeling and actually experiencing from this exercise?

When you are clear we will apply this to the 'I'.

Where are you writing from by the way, are you in a different time zone to to me in the UK?

Warm wishes
"The bad news is you're falling, the good news is theres no ground" Trungpa

User avatar
phoenix
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:38 pm

Fig

Postby phoenix » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:51 pm

Hello Smudge,
I was wondering where you were from also. I thought you must be a native English speaker. Now I will envision an English accent! I am from the country where one of our mayors smokes crack cocaine (have you heard of that fiasco! :) That is I am in Canada. Currently it is 6:20 a.m.
Okay, no sultanas but a fig. I'm not completely satisfied with my performance on this exercise and will continue to attempt it throughout the day. But the fig. Large and dried , but plump with a softness to it. Fairly heavy in my hand. I thought it would taste rich and that feelings of relief would come from eating it. I felt attachment to it (because I am hungry and haven't eaten yet). And because of that attachment/desire I did not imagine long before eating it. Direct experience was that the outer skin was tougher than I remembered and inside it was plumper with more seeds than I imagined. Richness, also more than I envisioned, permeated my mouth, and more of my tongue than I imagined and I felt happiness, content-ness throughout my body.
When I consider the difference of thinking about it, anticipatory feelings and actual experiences...hmmm....Thinking about it was more shallow. I could not eliminate my past experiences of eating figs before. So my thinking about it was a mixture of trying to see it for the first time and to analyze it. My feelings about it had to do with my memories of it also. And my feelings were also dependent on my body being hungry. If I was full then I would not have had desire for it. And the experience was more intense and involved the senses of touch (the thicker skin, small seeds, pulp etc) and the sense of taste (richness, sweetness) and I could feel my whole being into that experience at that moment.
So again but more succinctly, Thinking was more analytical and based on past experiences, feeling was more bodily and elicited by craving, and experiencing was more in the present moment for me - not really past memories - except for comparison. But it was present, and my senses felt engulfed in the moment.
I will think on this more today. Thank-you.
Metta,
Phoenix

User avatar
smudge
Posts: 690
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:44 pm

Re: Guide for a Buddhist requested.

Postby smudge » Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:33 pm

Great Phoenix, you are able to see the difference between thoughts and feelings (influenced by memories) about experience from the actual direct experience, yes?

This is wonderful!
I could feel my whole being into that experience at that moment


You say you want to 'think' on it some more today. Don't think, LOOK. Let me know when you can SEE the difference clearly.

I am imagining a Canadian accent now :-)
"The bad news is you're falling, the good news is theres no ground" Trungpa

User avatar
phoenix
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:38 pm

Looking and Seeing

Postby phoenix » Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:06 am

Yes - I understand that from the direct experience. But even though I do understand the difference, it is not readily there. I need to refresh my understanding many times with that exercise. Looking, not thinking is a good way to say that so that I avoid getting analytical. LOOK at thinking and feeling and LOOK at the experiencing in order to SEE the difference. Now it is night time and I will retire soon. I will try this until I fall asleep!
Thank-you Smudge!

User avatar
smudge
Posts: 690
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:44 pm

Re: Guide for a Buddhist requested.

Postby smudge » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:24 am

Hi Phoenix,

It sounds like you can tell the difference between direct experience and thoughts about it but you don't trust that yet. Its easy, thinking about eating a fig is quite different to actually eating a fig right? Thats it, its that simple. I think you are ready to investigate further by applying this direct looking.

When you say 'I', what does that point to in direct experience?

Happy looking,
Smudge
"The bad news is you're falling, the good news is theres no ground" Trungpa

User avatar
phoenix
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:38 pm

"I" in direct experience

Postby phoenix » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:40 pm

Thank-you Smudge.
I am looking but it is not easy for me. My mind seems to want to avoid doing this. Immediately my mind recollects myself in the mirror, doing this or that - but those are all memories. If I sit quietly "looking" it seems like a consciousness with a lot of sensations (tactile and auditory at the moment). If I am looking then I seem to be the Looker. But also I am the experiencer of those sensations.????? All of the sensations in my body are impermanent and so the Looker is looking at ever changing phenomena.
This is very hard! The fig was much easier.
Why is this step much more difficult?
Look forward to your response,
phoenix


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 45 guests