Guide THIS please

[Troy]

What would you like to know?

Troy

[richardcooper2k]

What is THIS ?

Can you tell me ?

:-)

[Troy]

Then it meant "don't guide 'me' or 'I', rather guide this aspect of awareness or God to stop looking through the key hole of the gate of limited perception and instead open it to life.

There might of been a little frustration there as well. :)

Then Friday morning(yesterday) I saw. I thought I had seen before but when you see it is unmistakable. However, I was hoping for the mind noise to completely go away. Though it may be easier to see and the body feels more alive and everything somehow more clear and crisp not slightly fogged. The ego is still present and maybe that is something that will just wind down. I'm okay with that.

I had trouble seeing the 'I'. I could see the thoughts that they came from nowhere. For years I have 'caught' the body doing things and the ego claiming its actions as its own. I have been living more and more in the flow. The gateless gatecrashers was very helpful. I would do the work as each one was helped. I kept thinking with each person 'wow, this sounds like me.' I would laugh often at the inner discoveries until Michael and I laughed for almost 10 minutes out of joy but that is not unusual as for years I would catch glimpses of reality or life's flow and feel the joy without thought.

Then Joao was the kicker. I was contemplating the thoughts running through my head and not forcing anything and then I saw the 'I'. It claims the thoughts but is also like the thoughts - still no where. I still wonder if this is still another level of ego craftiness. Because I still see some of the old ways though muted.

So, RC, clean up the remainder if you would please...and Thank You.

[richardcooper2k]

Okay......lets go !

Then Friday morning(yesterday) I saw. I thought I had seen before but when you see it is unmistakable. However, I was hoping for the mind noise to completely go away. Though it may be easier to see and the body feels more alive and everything somehow more clear and crisp not slightly fogged. The ego is still present and maybe that is something that will just wind down. I'm okay with that.

Thoughts, emotions, sensation, clarity, confusion, aliveness, dullness, fogginess, flow, drudgery etc, all come and go.
But where in experience (outside thought content but including thoughts) is this separate self, ego, "I", "me", experiencer, controller ?
Can you find it ?
Can it be smelled, tasted, touched, heard, seen, felt ?
What evidence can you find of it's existence ?
What claims thoughts ?

For years I have 'caught' the body doing things and the ego claiming its actions as its own

Or is this just more thoughts arising ?
With no one controlling them or experiencing them ?

[Troy]

The thoughts and the 'I' are no where to be found. "Life is utterly empty and meaningless. What a relief." There is only the watcher...the observer.

You said:
'What claims thoughts ?' Explain, Who claims what thoughts? Ahhh....the brain ego claims the thought and is the originator of the thought as well often times. Got it.

You also said, 'With no one controlling them or experiencing them?' If we call Life or the watcher/doer or even cause or God (for the matter), If we call this 'I' - I am the experiencer experiencing. Why would 'I' want to control thoughts that are meaningless? 'I' don't care what the thoughts think. I experience the whole of Life and label not as the world does good or bad. It is difficult to 'experience' the thoughts because when awareness looks at them - they are gone. All that is left is the emptiness or peace and the Observer/Experiencer. Though even now the brain is used as a tool to describe the events with words learned in the past. So there is some thought that is driven by the Observer.

Or is thought needed at all? mmm

Were you looking for something different? Am I lacking?

Thanks For your help RC

Troy

[richardcooper2k]

The thoughts and the 'I' are no where to be found. "Life is utterly empty and meaningless. What a relief." There is only the watcher...the observer.

Can you actually find an observer, or does sense experience just arise and the experiencer is imputed ?

Ahhh....the brain ego claims the thought and is the originator of the thought as well often times. Got it.

Can you find s brain or ego in the seen, heard, etc ?
Or does it/they only exist in thought content ?

You also said, 'With no one controlling them or experiencing them?' If we call Life or the watcher/doer or even cause or God (for the matter), If we call this 'I' - I am the experiencer experiencing. Why would 'I' want to control thoughts that are meaningless? 'I' don't care what the thoughts think. I experience the whole of Life and label not as the world does good or bad.

What is experiencing life ?
Can you find anything ?

It is difficult to 'experience' the thoughts because when awareness looks at them - they are gone. All that is left is the emptiness or peace and the Observer/Experiencer.

Yes

Though even now the brain is used as a tool to describe the events with words learned in the past. So there is some thought that is driven by the Observer.

We only need to look and see what is found in experience
Can you find a brain or an observer ?
If so please describe

Were you looking for something different? Am I lacking?

You are doing fine, stay with it !

[Troy]

The observer has to be there...it is the one noticing that thoughts aren't real or go away when looked for. It is the one doing the looking, noticing or being aware.

...mmm. I see what you are saying. I cannot find an observer. Noticing is 'happening'. looking is happening. When thoughts occur and attention is trying to find the observer there is yet another level of self seen and then the happeningness occurs. It feels big. I see it. I tried to go find the observer. to go back through the 'light'. I realized that was impossible because there was no 'distance' to go. 'I' was either real or it was not and I am already either there or I'm not. 'I' was not real and I am already there. This is not easy to explain.

I do know I cannot find any brain or observer. And I see Life just is...living?

Still looking more..

[richardcooper2k]

...mmm. I see what you are saying. I cannot find an observer

Nicely noticed :-)

I tried to go find the observer. to go back through the 'light'. I realized that was impossible because there was no 'distance' to go. 'I' was either real or it was not and I am already either there or I'm not. 'I' was not real and I am already there. This is not easy to explain.

This is good exploration too.
You are right. All experience arises in the same "no-place"
Distance is projected onto it - an interpretation

We are not looking into whether there is existance or not.

What we are interested in is investigating the sense of self in experience to see if there really is a seperatly existing "I" or "me".
Just keep looking into this.
Is there an experiencer or controller to be found ?
And if not, what is left ?

I do know I cannot find any brain or observer. And I see Life just is...living?

It is hard o capture experience in words isn't it :-)

[Troy]

There is no self. that much is obvious. Only life happening. As for the experiencer or controller...? mmm?

Not looking for existence helps. But there is the observer that is therefor the experiencer but not controller. Experiencing Life. Watching Life happen. everything is happening.

I'll keep investigating.

Troy

[Troy]

I cannot find the observer. I sense it but thoughts continually come in and 'muddy' the investigation. All mind activity stops when my eyes close and watch but when I investigate everything starts up again...

There is no observer directly unless we want to call Life that happens and experiences as the 'observer'.

I see that troy isn't there, the collective thoughts claim the name. There is looking, typing, spelling, hearing, all the things in the world. And now the thoughts are like flies buzzing - perhaps distracting but not annoying. Just there...

still investigating...

troy

[richardcooper2k]

There is no self. that much is obvious. Only life happening

:-)

I cannot find the observer. I sense it but thoughts continually come in and 'muddy' the investigation. All mind activity stops when my eyes close and watch but when I investigate everything starts up again...

Could this be because the observer is actually subtle thought ?

There is no observer directly unless we want to call Life that happens and experiences as the 'observer'.

I see that troy isn't there, the collective thoughts claim the name. There is looking, typing, spelling, hearing, all the things in the world. And now the thoughts are like flies buzzing - perhaps distracting but not annoying. Just there...

This is really nice looking and reporting on experience
Very nice
And you carry on investigating - that is really good to

There is no position to stop and rest in
Just keep investigating anything that comes up in experience that appears to be "solid", have/be "self", be permanent or unchanging.
Can you find anything in experience that has any of these qualities ?

[Troy]

Could this be because the observer is actually subtle thought?....mmm

It is obvious that the 'I' claims the awareness as well. This is the first time this has been seen clearly. funny.

The observer has no thoughts, no body, no home yet is everywhere home. Greater Peace.

I have even less thoughts now and realize there is no me yet at the same time I am not an automaton either. It is all experience. Though there is nothing 'solid'. Nothing to put your 'feet' on. Definitely nothing permanent or unchanging but the awareness feels permanent and unchanging or always/forever. Absolutely no 'self' though.

Thoughts are now more distant, smaller and seen or not seen if chosen.
still investigating...

Thanks RC

Troy

[richardcooper2k]

It is obvious that the 'I' claims the awareness as well.

Is there anything to make claims, or just thoughts arising ?

The observer has no thoughts, no body, no home yet is everywhere home. Greater Peace.

Are you saying the observer is a perspective on experience, or is everywhere, and/or is you ?

I have even less thoughts now and realize there is no me yet at the same time I am not an automaton either

What is not an automaton ?

Thoughts are now more distant, smaller and seen or not seen if chosen

Are you sure you have control over thought ?

Keep up the good work !

[Troy]

it is as you say - just thoughts arising.

The observer is a perspective on experience - life is just happening or experienced. walking happens etc.

Automaton...this was a revelation. The body is an automaton and thus the ego also. What a relief. What a relief that there is no me, no daily grind and no race.

And true no control over thought though there seems to be a choice to think or ponder certain things - contemplation. Is that not true. Do we not contemplate?

[richardcooper2k]

And true no control over thought though there seems to be a choice to think or ponder certain things - contemplation. Is that not true. Do we not contemplate?

Contemplation certainly seems to happen
But what is doing it ?
Can you find a thinker or contemplater ?
Can you find a chooser to do it or does it just happen ?