Could you pls guide me, Ilona?

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Could you pls guide me, Ilona?

Postby aubergine99 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:06 am

Hi,

I feel I am ready for guidance now. Have been interested in non-duality for past 5 years so have been influenced by numerous teachers. My search has brought me here.

Hoping to hear from you. Brigitte

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Re: Could you pls guide me, Ilona?

Postby Ilona » Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:42 pm

Hi brigitte,
Great to see you here. :)
Can answer these questions as fully and honestly as you can, take your time.

What are you looking for?

What do you expect?

What do you want to see?


Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: Could you pls guide me, Ilona?

Postby aubergine99 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:43 pm

Hi Ilona,

Here are my answers:

What are you looking for?I am looking for more peace of mind and less fear. I am looking to access a sense of freedom which I feel is buried deep inside myself but only emerges briefly. It’s like I don’t trust myself to relax, be more spontaneous, in case I become overwhelmed with anxiety.

What do you expect?Greater clarity about myself and life.

What do you want to see?I want to see clearly the illusion of the separate self. I have partially seen this already but there are sticky bits and I want to see reality more clearly.

Thanks for your guidance, Brigitte.

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Re: Could you pls guide me, Ilona?

Postby Ilona » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:55 pm

Thank you for answer.

Can you describe what sticky points are there?
What is in the way of peace and freedom right now?

What does word I point to?

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: Could you pls guide me, Ilona?

Postby aubergine99 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:34 pm

Hi again, Ilona,
Can you describe what sticky points are there?
What is in the way of peace and freedom right now?
I can accept that ‘I’ is an illusion but there is a strong feeling of me in the body that seems very personal. Or is it an intimate experience rather than personal? I’ve read that that feeling of me that we all have, is just a deep sense of being/awareness. Is that what it is?

I have also read that the ‘I’ we believe ourselves to be residing in the head/body is just ever present unchanging awareness, which does make sense to me, but LU appears to say there never was an ‘I’ in the first place?

Also, another sticky point is ‘free will’. I can see that life just happens by itself through our body/minds or through other life forms. But ‘free will’ acts out on different levels. On a subtle level, breathing takes place by itself, so too does dreaming when we are asleep. Blood flows through our veins, and thoughts appear in our minds by themselves. Then on another level, I go and make a snack when hunger arises in the body, or I step over a puddle if I come across one. These things happen directly through the laws of cause and effect. What about when I choose to do something as opposed to something else? It feels as if I am the chooser, that I decide the best option. Is choice also decided by itself? Is it just that the body/mind has an inherent discerning quality that chooses the most beneficial option automatically, based on knowledge, conditioning etc.? Do things happen when the right conditions for a certain action are present? I’m a little confused here.
What does word I point to?
In this dialogue with you, ‘I’ points to the character Brigitte, this body-mind that wakes up in the morning and gets on with life etc. ‘I’ has a story to tell and has characteristics, insecurities, talents, likes, dislikes, ambitions etc. It has a physical form of a certain colour, shape, weight, height and an age. It is an illusion that constantly changes. It was born and will eventually die.

Love Brigitte

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Re: Could you pls guide me, Ilona?

Postby Ilona » Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:05 pm

‘I’ points to the character Brigitte, this body-mind that wakes up in the morning and gets on with life etc. ‘I’ has a story to tell and has characteristics, insecurities, talents, likes, dislikes, ambitions etc. It has a physical form of a certain colour, shape, weight, height and an age. It is an illusion that constantly changes. It was born and will eventually die.
Where is it now? Thi's I, can you describe where you find it. Can you touch it with a finger? Is brigitte in the room right now?

Is batman in the room right now?

How do you know in both instances?


Is I in the body, outside the body, does it own the body or is it the name of this body? Like a tag, useful in communication.

Is awareness I? Or I arise in awareness?

Examine this closely and take your time. When you close your eyes, can you find this I, me anywhere? In which form or shape?


Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: Could you pls guide me, Ilona?

Postby aubergine99 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:23 pm

Hello again,
Where is it now? This I, can you describe where you find it. Can you touch it with a finger?
(Assuming in this instance, that I is not the label we give to our body/mind entity for the sake of communication), then I is nowhere to be seen or found. Nor can you touch it.

Is Brigitte in the room right now?


Yes, I would say she is in the room right now and it is a name label for the body/mind. It is the label used to point to the character of the body/mind also.
Is batman in the room right now?


No, he is a fictional character and doesn’t exist.
How do you know in both instances?


I know through direct experience in the first instance and I didn’t need direct experience to see that batman isn’t there because I already know he doesn’t exist.
Is I in the body, outside the body, does it own the body or is it the name of this body? Like a tag, useful in communication.
I is neither in or outside the body, nor does it own the body, because it is nowhere to be found. However, it is very useful in communication.
Is awareness I? Or I arise in awareness?


Ilona, this is a hard one - I am really confused about this. I believe thoughts arise in awareness, actions happen in awareness, in fact, everything of this world happens in awareness. Awareness as I understand it, is the space/background in which everything happens. I do not know whether awareness is I? I arises in mind, as a thought, which happens in awareness yet it is still an illusion.
Examine this closely and take your time. When you close your eyes, can you find this I, me anywhere? In which form or shape?
No, I cannot find this I anywhere, in any shape or form.

Love Brigitte

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Re: Could you pls guide me, Ilona?

Postby Ilona » Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:24 pm

Hi brigitte,

You say
I know through direct experience in the first instance and I didn’t need direct experience to see that batman isn’t there because I already know he doesn’t exist.
How do you know in direct experience at Bridget is not a fictional character?
Direct experience is something that is happening through perception channels. Touch, hearing, seeing, smelling and tasting. There is experience of thinking too, but the content of thought is not direct experience, it's thoughts ABOUT experience, stories, fiction. A label is not a entity, a. Name is not a thing. Word table is not experience of table.

Can brigitte be experienced directly?
How do you know then, that she exists?

What comes up if you let this thought in- there is no separate self, no I, no me, no brigitte in reality. None, as in zero.


Write what thoughts and body reactions come up.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: Could you pls guide me, Ilona?

Postby aubergine99 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:54 am

Hello Ilona,
How do you know in direct experience that Brigitte is not a fictional character?
Direct experience is something that is happening through perception channels. Touch, hearing, seeing, smelling and tasting. There is experience of thinking too, but the content of thought is not direct experience, it's thoughts ABOUT experience, stories, fiction. A label is not a entity, a. Name is not a thing. Word table is not experience of table.

In direct experience, I am unable to experience Brigitte as a character, whether fictional or not. I am unable to experience the label or character known as Brigitte. All I can experience in DE is the body as I can see it, touch it. The knowledge of whether something is fictional or not is known in the mind not through DE.
Can Brigitte be experienced directly?
No, as it is a label for the body/mind. Labels cannot be experienced directly. So, I assume that a body/mind can be experienced directly so is real. A label is only content of thought.
How do you know then, that she exists?
The body/mind to which the label points exists as it can be experienced directly by the senses, but not the label. Brigitte is the label and is useful for everyday communication.
What comes up if you let this thought in- there is no separate self, no I, no me, no brigitte in reality. None, as in zero.
Nothing really comes up as I have been exposed to this idea for a while now and am quite at ease with it. In fact, I can say there is much more peace and joy experienced now because most of the time, very little is taken personally. It is only when I take my eye off the ball, so to speak, that I get caught up in the drama and illusion of being a separate self and experience those personal emotions, whether happy or sad.
Write what thoughts and body reactions come up.
None really.

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Re: Could you pls guide me, Ilona?

Postby Ilona » Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:31 pm

It is only when I take my eye off the ball, so to speak, that I get caught up in the drama and illusion of being a separate self and experience those personal emotions, whether happy or sad.
does it mean that intense emotions, wanted or not create separation?
when you look at any emotion, is there a feeler behind it?
what is that i that takes eyes of the ball?

is it body that experiences or body is experienced?
with eyes closed, take a look, is there a boundary of skin? is there an inside and outside? is there a line between here and there?

sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: Could you pls guide me, Ilona?

Postby aubergine99 » Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:16 am

Hi Ilona,
It is only when I take my eye off the ball, so to speak, that I get caught up in the drama and illusion of being a separate self and experience those personal emotions, whether happy or sad.
Does it mean that intense emotions, wanted or not create separation?
It is not the emotions that create separation, only thoughts about the emotions. It’s a habit of thought that believes I live in my body, that I experience the emotions, that I am therefore separate to other bodies and the world.

When you look at any emotion, is there a feeler behind it?
It does feel like there is a feeler which I think is me and it seems like it’s always been there, so difficult to shake off. On close inspection, however, with direct experience, there are just emotional feelings being experienced.
What is that i that takes eyes of the ball?


What is meant by that, is that focusing/awareness is not present. When that happens, the illusion of myself arises once more with all its personal thoughts and emotions.
Is it body that experiences or body is experienced?
This is a tricky question, for sure. Thought tells me that body experiences, because of the senses present in the body, and the actual processing of those senses happens in the brain. On direct experience however, I would say the answer is ‘neither’. The only things that can be experienced are the via senses, ie. sight, sound, taste, smell, and touch plus thoughts. Yes, that definitely seems to be correct.

With eyes closed, take a look, is there a boundary of skin? is there an inside and outside? is there a line between here and there?
No, there is no boundary of skin that can be felt. Neither an inside nor outside. There is no boundary to be experienced between here and there. Boundaries cannot be experienced only thoughts about them are.

Am I getting any closer now, Ilona?

Sending love, Brigitte

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Re: Could you pls guide me, Ilona?

Postby Ilona » Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:44 am

Good work. Lets see further
It’s a habit of thought that believes I live in my body, that I experience the emotions, that I am therefore separate to other bodies and the world.
You say that thoughts believe. Take a close look at thoughts and how they arise one by one, one at a time. Which thought believes in another? Is it thought that believes, knows, understands, imagines or thoughts are just little unit of data? Can a thought believe in another thought?
Is thought I believing in itself?

What is belief, really?
Investigate and write to me how you see it.

Sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: Could you pls guide me, Ilona?

Postby aubergine99 » Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:11 pm

Hello again,
It’s a habit of thought that believes I live in my body, that I experience the emotions, that I am therefore separate to other bodies and the world.
You say that thoughts believe. Take a close look at thoughts and how they arise one by one, one at a time. Which thought believes in another? Is it thought that believes, knows, understands, imagines or thoughts are just little unit of data? Can a thought believe in another thought?
No, I got that wrong. Of course, thoughts don’t believe. They do come one by one and are just a stream of data. What I want to say is that the illusion of ‘I’ believes the thoughts, but ‘I’ doesn’t exist. So that can’t be right. Is it just the ‘I’ thought appearing in awareness, and constantly re-appearing? Until it is seen clearly that ‘I’ doesn’t exist, these thoughts continue to arise. These thoughts of ‘I’ have been arising for many years, so it’s no wonder they keep appearing. Maybe, that’s what I meant to say. It seems to make more sense.
Is thought I believing in itself?


I don’t think a thought can think another thought. I just think that the illusion ‘I’, which is a thought, is arising and covering up the truth that it doesn’t exist. It’s just a habit of mind.
What is belief, really?


Belief is clinging on to a thought, taking its content to be the truth. On close inspection, it is seen that contents of thoughts are not reality. Reality can only be experienced. The more this is seen, the more the truth will be revealed. I really get the feeling that truth is all there is in reality and once it is seen, the misleading thoughts of ‘I’ will eventually disappear. I feel this is happening in daily life more and more and it feels ‘sooo good’! It feels like the ‘I’ that I once thought central to my life, is sitting in the back seat of an imaginary car just watching the world go by and enjoying the ride instead of sitting in the front, frantically trying to negotiate the traffic and get to grips with the gears and foot pedals.

Sending deep gratitude to you for the help you are offering. This guiding method is a brilliant idea. Wonderful inspiring work!

Love Brigitte

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Re: Could you pls guide me, Ilona?

Postby Ilona » Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:36 pm

Hi brigitte,

Getting closer..
Until it is seen clearly that ‘I’ doesn’t exist, these thoughts continue to arise
there is nothing wrong with I thought and it continues to arise, it's part of normal everyday language and without it would be difficult to communicate. When it's seen as empty, it no longer sticks. That's what happens when belief drops. Just like with Santa story, I no longer is seen to be an entity independent and separate from life.

You describe nicely this journey in the car. It's really more like a roller coaster, no driver, no pedals, no steering wheel, just a trill of the journey. You can imagine that you are driving, but that does not change the route. You can let go of trying to control and relax, let it take you to places. Enjoy the view.

There is an exercise in this post. Do it and write to me what you noticed. How description of what is happening affect what is happening?

http://markedeternal.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/labels.html

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: Could you pls guide me, Ilona?

Postby aubergine99 » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:00 pm

Hi Ilona,
There is an exercise in this post. Do it and write to me what you noticed. How description of what is happening affect what is happening?


Do you mean when thoughts come in with descriptions of what is presently happening? I suppose mind wants to get in on the action and weave its own story. They don’t affect what is happening directly but thoughts will naturally arise which then leads onto more thoughts.

It depends on the nature of those thoughts, of course. When my daughter ate a packet of crisps and left the wrapper on the table, thoughts immediately came in to describe the event. ‘That wrapper should be put in the bin’ they said. I asked her to put the wrapper in the waste paper basket. This turned my attention to it, which needed emptying, so off I went to deal with it which took me to the kitchen. Thoughts came to me that I was now in the kitchen and the dishes needed washing. So I went into full housewife mode. Previous to that event, I was happily sitting watching tv. There is no problem with this. Actions lead to thoughts which lead to feeling and thoughts, which lead to more action etc. It is all part of life experiencing itself.

Other times, after an event and thoughts arise, when attention is not there, thoughts about ‘me/ego’ appear and I get caught up in the story. These can lead to feelings of anxiety, guilt or excitement, joy, pride or whatever. But are the contents of the thought to be believed or not? If attention is not present, there is no knowing what will ensue.

It seems that bringing awareness into everything is of great benefit. Does that happen by itself too when conditions are right?

Sending love, Brigitte


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