Request for guidance, please.

[LAKSHMAN]

Hello. I would be very grateful if I was put in touch with a guide. I feel I am ready to take the plunge inside!

[Canfora]

Hi, LAKSHMAN and welcome to LU.

How can I call you? My name is Sandra.

Here are a few ground rules:

1. You agree to post at least once a day, even if only to say "still here!"

2. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation.

Really put all your effort and attention into seeing this reality, as it is.

If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.

3. Be 100% honest!

If you haven't already seen it, there is intro info here http://www.liberationunleashed.com/ , our disclaimer and a short video too.

If you could confirm you have seen all the above and would like me to be your guide - then we shall begin:

How did you found LU?

Please tell a little bit about your "spiritual path".

What are your expectations for this process? How will it change you? How will this feel? (make a list!)



You can press subscribe to this topic in the blue bar at the bottom of this page and receive an email every time I post here.

You may also find the quote function useful when replying, as it means you can bring any questions or points from previous postings into your responses.
See how to do it here - http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660)

[Canfora]

I forgot to say that this site often logs you out while you write a reply and you can lose what you have written. I suggest you write elsewhere, then just paste the message into the 'reply' window when you're ready to send.

[LAKSHMAN]

Hello Sandra. Thank you for offering to be my guide.
Let me tell you a bit about "myself".
My given name is Shannon, Lakshman is the name Mooji, my teacher gave me. I have little attachment to either, use either.
I have been making spiritual investigation for 30 years, I'm 51, have a male body.
I have been practicing self enquiery with Mooji for 5-6 years, and have been living in his ashram until some months ago.
I recently came across the book; Gateless gatecrashers, and connected fully with what I read.
Recently there have been insights, through investigation, that the person I have always assumed I was, really does not exist! I intuitively know this to be the truth. But the understanding is not stable. There is a strong desire to finish this totally. I know that I have a heap of concepts about "liberation/enlightenment", etc, and that these must be broken through.
I can say that I am 100%, totally intent on ending the search. Lets Go!

[LAKSHMAN]

Ah! About my expectations for this process:
The experience of knowing that a separate self is an illusion is without compare.
I have had so many experiences of just being an unassociated presence, but the memory of these creates a comparison to the present moment, and a desire for this experience.
The burning desire for the end of suffering has gone, because I don't seem to suffer any more, but the job must be finished off!

[Canfora]

I can say that I am 100%, totally intent on ending the search. Lets Go!

Good atitude!

I have had so many experiences of just being an unassociated presence, but the memory of these creates a comparison to the present moment, and a desire for this experience.

Seeing that the I is an illusion as nothing to do with states - states are impermanent and seeing what's true is a unquestionable realisation, always available when we look.

What comes up in your experience if I say that there is absolutely no “you” in any way, shape or form, there never has been a “you” and there will never be? What are the thoughts and feelings that arise? Please share what you find.

[LAKSHMAN]

Well, I have to say there is something here. Something that has read and digested your message. If there was nothing here, no perception, nothing would exist to "me". However, this something does not have to be attached to an identity, that is clear.

[LAKSHMAN]

Hello Sandra. Back to expectations: I guess I hope to be free of any feelings of unease, or of anything lacking.
Hopes: that I will totally and unshakeably see through the illusion of a separate self.
Fears: that I will fail, and continue searching for the truth.
I see that both of these contain a strong sense of "me".

[Canfora]

Hi, Shannon.

Well, I have to say there is something here. Something that has read and digested your message. If there was nothing here, no perception, nothing would exist to "me".

There is something. We can call it "what is", "awareness", "life", or other label.

What we are doing here is seeing if in that something a "you" can be found (were not trying to see what that something is!).

I guess I hope to be free of any feelings of unease, or of anything lacking.

This inquiry is done looking to what is, here and now.

What can you see in direct experience? Describe it, please.

Don't tell me what you think it's here - really look with fresh new eyes.

Is anything lacking in this moment? What?

[LAKSHMAN]

Hi Sandra, Thank you for replying.
Is there anything laking in this moment?
To be honest, I don't feel there is anything lacking right now, I feel satisfied with this moment.
However, I have spent so much of my life feeling that something is lacking, that I do not totally trust this.

In direct experience: I feel my body, the sounds around me, the imprint of my visual environment on my eyes. There are thoughts, right now wondering what to write. There is a sense of presence, which is hard to describe.
Other thoughts come, irrelevant to this moment, ie I must go shopping soon. Another thought: I'm not giving you much to work with here. There is my breath. Another thought: I'm not doing this properly, I need to find something else. There is a sense of peace. Now a thought with more weight: You may think I'm trying to say I've got it sorted. That thought goes.
The thought: I haven't got it, there must be more than this: a feeling of basic satisfaction.
I have been doing self-enquiery very intensely lately, and I see clearly that I am not my thoughts, but who is this "I" who sees this clearly? I really don't know.
My mind does not trust this space of peace and acceptance which I am experiencing, it says; I have been in this space many times before, and have lost it.
Sandra, I call on you to help break any illusion or self-deception that you can perceive in what I am saying, I know how tricky the mind is, and it occurs to me that it may just be behaving well at the moment to avoid me seeing truely what I am.

[LAKSHMAN]

I'm a bit of a duh-brain with the computer, I'm trying to work out how to use the Quote function. :-)

[LAKSHMAN]

I'm really looking now, and I really can't find any being-Shannon in all this, just perception. But I DON'T TRUST THIS. What is it that is really looking? What is it that does not trust this?

[LAKSHMAN]

Well, I just went into my local town to shop, and I noticed judgements arising about people and things. When I am experiencing this there is definately a sense of identification with a personal self. In this way I see that my seeing is not stable. When I am looking with intent, I see there is no personal self to be found, but when I am not looking, then I am to some extent identified with my idea of me.

[Canfora]

Thank you for your answers, Shannon!

I'm a bit of a duh-brain with the computer, I'm trying to work out how to use the Quote function. :-)

That's OK, i understand you perfectly - if not i will ask questions, to understand what you are saying (feel free to do the same).

Sandra, I call on you to help break any illusion or self-deception that you can perceive in what I am saying, I know how tricky the mind is, and it occurs to me that it may just be behaving well at the moment to avoid me seeing truly what I am.

I'm staying with you till you see this, Shannon. It's a pleasure and an honor. Let's go step by step.

Nice description of direct experience - there are some things we need to look there - but first let's check what's true in experience.

We can divide direct experience, for the purposes of this investigation, into 3 main aspects: thoughts, sensations (seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling) and a sense of presence (don't trust me, see for yourself if you can find other kind of objects appearing in awareness, that can't be included in these "categories").

If real is what doesn't disappear when you stop believing in it, then thoughts (as objects appearing in awareness), sensations and a sense of presence are real because they are experienced.

Look at these 3 labels - cup, Spain and Batman - can you tell me what is the difference between them in direct experience?

[LAKSHMAN]

Hi Sandra, thank you for saying you will stay with me on this.
I am having trouble posting, the connection keeps crashing. I'll try again...

Direct experience in three main aspects. Yes I agree, if we count emotions in the same category as thoughts. Emotions and sensations are interlinked.

Cup, Spain, Batman.
A cup is a tangible, physical object, as far as I can tell, it exists.
Spain is a concept that represents a physical, geographical area. "Spain" does not exist, what it represents does.
Batman, if I am not very mistaken, does not exist, except as a concept, to be believed in or not.

I hope I can send tins one.