Requesting Guidance

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
User avatar
Raven
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:38 pm

Requesting Guidance

Postby Raven » Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:06 pm

I’ve been visiting this site for a week or so, have read the Gateless Gatecrashers book and some of the threads on this site: Also have worked on answering some of the questions asked during the process. However, a guide is seriously necessary. Would someone here be so kind as to help me? My main background was several years spent in Siddha Yoga and lots of reading. Many, many thanks for this forum and this priceless opportunity. Posted with deep gratitude....

User avatar
Patrick
Posts: 803
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:29 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Requesting Guidance

Postby Patrick » Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:24 pm

Hi Raven, welcome.

What are your expectations here?

User avatar
Raven
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:38 pm

Re: Requesting Guidance

Postby Raven » Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:16 pm

What are your expectations here?
Hi Patrick,

Thank you so much for responding to my request for a guide and look forward to your guidance. I tried the “quote” function here and hope I did it correctly. I’m not very tech savvy.

Bottom line answer to your question: The end of seeking. However, I thought I might give you some background here that will, hopefully, give you an idea of where “I’m at.”

I started in Siddha Yoga Meditation in February of 1997, when I was 51 years old. For the first few years I stuck, very strictly, with their philosophy of Kashmir Shaivism. I dropped out in 2002 and have done tons of independent reading since then. Among other things I read the Wei Wu Wei “negative way” series and of course Jed’s “Damnedest” when it was first published. I thought it was hilarious, have read it many times over the years for a laugh, but have serious disagreement with some of the things s/he has to say…but no disagreement with the truth of “no-self.” (I remember once reading that there might be as many as 50 Siddhas, realized beings, in Siddha Yoga - out of hundreds of thousands! - and found this totally depressing…what chance did I have? This is why I sort of gave up and why Jed’s Consumer Report analogy cracked me up.)

I stopped meditating in 2001…too many horrific experiences, and anyway the physical health started to deteriorate when I received Shakitipat in 1997. Long story, but I was not physically, mentally, or emotionally prepared. As a matter of fact, I was a totally clueless spiritual virgin. So now I’m 67, in a wheelchair with a diagnosis of progressive multiple sclerosis.

Near the beginning, in the autumn of 1997, I had a sudden realization that I didn’t exist as who and what I thought I was and the whole burden of my life was lifted off my shoulders and I was free (words used to describe the indescribable). I sang and danced for hours, only to have my story settle in around me once again. So I know the truth, but am trapped in the lie.

I’m not interested in making my prison cell more comfortable or prettier. I’m tired and bored with my story and intend to make a break for freedom. To me liberation means freedom from the clutches of the mind and emotions: not the mind and emotions themselves, but their power to drag you down into the muck…or to totally elate you for that matter. I also hope that once there’s no longer identification with the life story that a certain amount of physical healing will take place (or else there will be alignment with the inevitable – I have the double whammy here: awareness of ignorance and a beast of a disease…please! one or the other, preferably neither). As far as I can see, liberation is a tiny, yet huge, shift in identification…no “I.” These are hopes, not expectations. It’ll be interesting to see what arises.

I have not engaged in any regular “spiritual” practices for more than ten years. However, for the past year in the mornings I do a QiGong Microcosmic Orbit Meditation along with some affirmations, etc., and in the afternoon I practice about one hour of QiGong. Both of these are done to help heal the body. One very interesting fact: I finished 100 continuous days of QiGong. At around the 45th day I had the experience that some of the exercises where being “done” but not by me. Now this is permanent…It’s done, but quite literally not by “me”…”I” watch, the mind wanders, and it happens. After it’s over, my body, which could barely walk even with a walker, has way more energy.

I have very few beliefs - defined as conviction without evidence - which I’m aware of. However, it’s the ones I’m not aware of that are really scary, so am always open to being mistaken. I know that I know nothing. But I do have this underlying feeling that this process will work for others but not for me (one of my few beliefs, I guess, but sort of a pattern in this life). Despite that, I’m ready to go for broke.

One final word: Keyboarding is at times quite challenging for me (I used to type 120 wpm), so unlike what you see here, please excuse if I don’t go overboard correcting typos unless what’s written is unintelligible. This will be a real challenge :o) !!!

BTW, I’m located in Connecticut, U.S.A.

Thank you again for responding to my request and I’m really looking forward to hearing from you.

With great love,
"Raven"

User avatar
Patrick
Posts: 803
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:29 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Requesting Guidance

Postby Patrick » Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:53 pm

You are speaking about hopes.
What if there is no hope at all, that there is only what is right now, every moment again?

User avatar
Raven
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:38 pm

Re: Requesting Guidance

Postby Raven » Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:40 pm

You are speaking about hopes.
What if there is no hope at all, that there is only what is right now, every moment again?
Then so be it…can’t change what is, so no point in kicking against the traces. As a matter of fact, no hope, while a little scary, might be a relief. When you say “every moment again” do you mean a “Groundhog Day” type phenomenon? Or living in the now, whatever that means?

Raven

User avatar
Patrick
Posts: 803
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:29 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Requesting Guidance

Postby Patrick » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:17 pm

Is there something else than the present moment?
Does past and future exist?

User avatar
Raven
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:38 pm

Re: Requesting Guidance

Postby Raven » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:46 pm

Is there something else than the present moment?
Does past and future exist?
Past and future don’t exist…except as a mental construct, which means not at all. But it all seems so real and that’s where I spend so much of my time…and I do mean “I” and “my.” How to get past the intellectual understanding and let go of the story? It’s so frustrating! I said “…living in the now, whatever that means? “ because that’s not the experience here.

User avatar
Patrick
Posts: 803
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:29 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Requesting Guidance

Postby Patrick » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:22 pm

Look at the senses.
When there is a bodily sensation is there something else than the bodily sensation?
Look how a thought comes after the bodily sensation.
See how the 'I' thought is not present at the moment of the bodily sensation.
Do you need this thought to be aware?

User avatar
Raven
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:38 pm

Re: Requesting Guidance

Postby Raven » Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:09 pm

Look at the senses.
When there is a bodily sensation is there something else than the bodily sensation?
Look how a thought comes after the bodily sensation.
See how the 'I' thought is not present at the moment of the bodily sensation.
Do you need this thought to be aware?
Hi Patrick,

Husband and I are going out, and I will have to “sit” with this for a while. Shall do so in the morning and also sleep on it tonight.

Years ago did an experiment with the Spanda-Karikas (stanzas of vibration) in mind, and saw how the “ego” (as a function not a thing) reached out almost simultaneously with a sensation, appropriated and labeled it to be in sync with the habitual conditioning; and could then consciously slap on and experience different interpretations of the same pulse or sensation. Is this something like what you’re talking about? Forgot all about this until you mentioned it…for some reason feel like crying. Anyway, shall work with this and report back tomorrow.

Thank you so much for working with me.

Raven

User avatar
Raven
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:38 pm

Re: Requesting Guidance

Postby Raven » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:43 pm

Look at the senses.
When there is a bodily sensation is there something else than the bodily sensation?
No, when looked at there’s only the bodily sensation
Look how a thought comes after the bodily sensation.
See how the 'I' thought is not present at the moment of the bodily sensation.
It can be said, in many instances, that first there’s awareness of the bodily sensation and then it is labeled. However :o) what about when one’s train of thought gives rise to a bodily sensation? The thought is there first…say you’re reading something disturbing to you or thinking about a fun vacation. Any thoughts, whether they are of unpleasant or pleasant matters would lack “punch” without a sensation to go with it…they would be “dry” thoughts. It appears that the thoughts give rise to sensations. Still, though, there’s the labeling of the sensation in keeping with the current train of thought. Hmmm….
Do you need this thought to be aware?
It’s very clear that thought about a sensation is unnecessary to be aware of it.


On a few occasions there seems to be a glimpse of what’s going on, but it’s ephemeral and doesn’t stick.

User avatar
Patrick
Posts: 803
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:29 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Requesting Guidance

Postby Patrick » Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:44 pm

The sense of self is a bunch of sensations, thoughts and feelings believed to be an independent entity.
Because there are real sensations together with the thoughts and feelings, it feels real.
Look at these sensations without the thoughts and feelings.
What are these sensations?

User avatar
Raven
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:38 pm

Re: Requesting Guidance

Postby Raven » Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:26 pm

The sense of self is a bunch of sensations, thoughts and feelings believed to be an independent entity.
Because there are real sensations together with the thoughts and feelings, it feels real.
Look at these sensations without the thoughts and feelings.
What are these sensations?
This really took some looking at. First, what are thoughts if not real? What are feelings if not real? Okay: Thoughts are self-generating, arising in the field of the mind, determined by conditioning and habit - if not outright addiction.They have no substance. Feelings are labeled sensations.

What are these sensations? Physical feeling - A felt life force, pulsation, vibration? Information or impressions taken in by the five senses and (not sure of the right word to use here - expressed, felt, perceived, interpreted?) by or in the physical body? A mechanism that allows us to feel alive? I’m not sure.

There’s no question that there’s a constant sense of aliveness going on in the body, and it can be experienced even if there’s no story attached to it. It’s also understood that the combination of sensations, thoughts and feelings give rise to the experience of “me.” Wow!!! Am “I’ real? Logically (sorry to say) it looks like this may not be the case. Feel like something is being missed here. Can you help me? Am I on the right track? For some reason, I feel so inauthentic.

Raven

User avatar
Patrick
Posts: 803
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:29 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Requesting Guidance

Postby Patrick » Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:54 pm

There’s no question that there’s a constant sense of aliveness going on in the body, and it can be experienced even if there’s no story attached to it.

Why the need to label aliveness as 'experience of me' ?
What if there is only aliveness, life living itself?
How would be life without this labeling? What would change?

User avatar
Raven
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:38 pm

Re: Requesting Guidance

Postby Raven » Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:50 pm

Why the need to label aliveness as 'experience of me' ?
What if there is only aliveness, life living itself?
How would be life without this labeling? What would change?
Well, there was no thought here of labeling the aliveness as an “experience of me” (which it wasn’t, but maybe it was?), but rather expressing an awareness of sensation, no “me” necessarily involved: It just is. Which brings up a Question: Then What is relating the story-less awareness of aliveness here if not a “me”? Or is it a case of just a story being related by no-one?

It seems that once a story is attached to it then there’s a “me” experiencing it, “I” exist, and am right back where I started…which is nowhere any good. I still experience this life as a “me,” even though it’s known for the fiction it is, especially after investigating it. Very confused!

No idea how life would be without the labeling, or what would change – if “I” did there would be no need to do this because “I’d” already “be there”!

User avatar
Raven
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:38 pm

Re: Requesting Guidance

Postby Raven » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:57 am

Hi Patrick,

The illusory me, Raven, is having some difficulty with our correspondence. I’m really not feeling a connection with you and therefore with the process. Maybe it’s just that your minimalist approach doesn’t resonate with me, or for that matter something about me doesn’t resonate with you.

I’m really committed to finally crashing the gate and would be delighted to have you as a guide, especially since you chose to work with me…not something to be taken lightly. Do you think we could do better?

I sincerely hope that by writing this I’m not committing a faux pas, but to move forward under the present circumstances would be dishonest.

Raven


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest