Finding a guide

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Ellie May
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Finding a guide

Postby Ellie May » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:41 pm

I would very much like a guide ...

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Metta777
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Re: Finding a guide

Postby Metta777 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:55 pm

Hi Elle May,

I could be your guide if you like. first we have to make some agreements. let me know you read the disclaimer and agree.Tell me something about yourself and what brought you here to the gate. What are your expectations of the process? We agree to have contact once a day except on Sunday.
Love, metta
"This too shall pass"

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Ellie May
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Re: Finding a guide

Postby Ellie May » Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:34 pm

Hello Metta777 and thank you very much for offering to be my guide. I have read the disclaimer which seems fine so I'm happy to agree.

As for something about me ... well I'm a 48 year old woman living in Norwich, UK with my partner, a cat and a dog. I've been a practicing acupuncturist for twelve years and I suppose it's the sort of job that tends to bring up questions about sickness, death, aloneness, contentment, joy, fear etc and whilst I have views (some of which I might share from time to time with friends and patients) I don't have any answers.

I've been a somewhat lackadaisical Buddhist for perhaps thirteen years - I'm comfortable with what I know of Buddhism but don't always choose to remember it! I suppose what I'm saying is that the Dharma seems to make sense and to feel true ... when I give it sufficient attention and don't distract myself with other things. However, I see it as a finger pointing at the moon, not the moon itself and I don't have belief that it's the only finger pointing the right way. To stick with the analogy, I guess it's the "moon" I'm interested in and that's why I'm engaging in this process.

I have been fortunate in that although I have created all sorts of dramas in my life, mostly around my relationships with my two ex-husbands (both of whom I'm now on good terms with), I have tended towards a workable level of contentment i.e. I have periods of anger, disappointment, fear and anguish but mostly I quite enjoy this existence. Sometimes I'm very interested in big questions at other times I'm happy to switch on the TV and veg for an hour or so.

I heard about The Gate when a friend was cautioning another friend of ours against the potential challenge of undergoing this process. I asked the first friend, whose judgement I respect, if she thought it would be dangerous for me to try and she said she thought not ... time will tell I guess. As for my expectations, well I would like to learn more about my assorted blind spots in order to see the "moon" more clearly - whether that's by sticking with the process and going through The Gate, or by failing to do so. I have the sense that the better shape I/we are in the better things seem to flow. I would like to swim with the tide rather than struggling against it in the mistaken fear that safety lies the other way.

As for why I want to see the "moon" at all, I think that life sometimes feels as though I'm seeing it through a filter. Rather like when someone is being disingenuous, one has a sense that what they're saying isn't really what they mean even though one can only guess what's really happening for them. Sometimes I experience the world as though wearing blinkers.

I have rambled I'm afraid - I thought it best not to think too long or edit too carefully for fear of losing authenticity but I trust you will tell me if you'd rather I wrote differently.

As for daily contact except Sunday, well I'm very grateful to you for your time and commitment and I will endeavour to stick to daily contact except Sundays. I feel daunted by the fear that I may fail in this but cannot think of any reason why I should! I hope you don't mind me contacting you today but I imagined this post would sit in cyberspace till you're ready to look at it.

With love and gratitude
Ellie May

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Metta777
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Re: Finding a guide

Postby Metta777 » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:14 pm

Hi Ellie May,

The first questions are can you find a self ? A stable ,fixed presence that is called me. Who is aware of the thoughts you have when you look at what your thinking? Try to answer as completely as possible.

Love, Metta
"This too shall pass"

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Ellie May
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Re: Finding a guide

Postby Ellie May » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:56 pm

As I sit here trying to answer you I feel that I have a self - the volition to type etc but not a stable fixed presence - perhaps more like a sequence of events or a series of stories somehow strung together by memory and thought. I don't know who is aware of the thoughts I have when I stop to consider them - I think they are just thoughts ...

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Ellie May
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Re: Finding a guide

Postby Ellie May » Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:22 pm

I have commitments this evening so may be unable to respond today but I imagine with the time difference it may work that I can respond to your questions the morning after you have sent them rather than trying to find time in the evening. I hope that is still honouring our agreement.

Ellen

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Metta777
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Re: Finding a guide

Postby Metta777 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:51 pm

Hi Ellie May,
As I sit here trying to answer you I feel that I have a self - the volition to type etc but not a stable fixed presence - perhaps more like a sequence of events or a series of stories somehow strung together by memory and thought. I don't know who is aware of the thoughts I have when I stop to consider them - I think they are just thoughts ...
Well, the first thing is are feelings and thoughts necessarily correct or are they just feelings and thoughts? Can a series of stories be a self? Can you look for concrete evidence of any kind that there is a self called Ellie May? Tell me from Direct Experience how there is awareness of an Ellie May. Try to answer as fully as you can with detail. This is a good start.


Love, Metta
"This too shall pass"

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Metta777
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Re: Finding a guide

Postby Metta777 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:52 pm

Hi Ellie May,

That is fine, I understand sometimes there are things we must do. :-) Love, Metta
"This too shall pass"

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Ellie May
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Re: Finding a guide

Postby Ellie May » Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:54 pm

Hi Metta

I guess I imagine feelings and thoughts to be just feelings and thoughts, neither correct not incorrect though I often believe them at the time and don't always remember their transience. Thoughts are a bit easier for me to notice as just thoughts, feelings I sometimes find stickier and harder to put in perspective though my mind will remind me if I invite it to intervene.

I don't know how to define the 'I' that I refer to. I think that the awareness I have of an Ellie May is the bit that notices what this body senses or what this mind thinks or feels but I don't have any sense of who is doing the noticing - perhaps it's just more thoughts and feelings. There's also will, but I don't know if that's just more thoughts arising as a result of conditions.

I don't think a series of stories add up to a self but they feel like some sort of continuum. If I remember a time as a young woman who I no longer recognize as me I can still plot a connection between my choices and experiences I had then and the thoughts and feelings I have today - a bit liked the self seeded foxgloves in my garden. I feel like a different plant but I remember where that old one stood and how it's seeds were carried on the wind to where I sit now.

I think of my sense of 'I' as imagined but it feels real though transitory and dependent.

Is this a sufficiently full and detailed response?

Love Ellie May

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Metta777
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Re: Finding a guide

Postby Metta777 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:32 pm

Hi Ellie May,

I thought you might find this video interesting...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyyjU8fzEYU


Love, metta
"This too shall pass"

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Metta777
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Re: Finding a guide

Postby Metta777 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:55 pm

Hi Ellie May,

I guess I imagine feelings and thoughts to be just feelings and thoughts, neither correct not incorrect though I often believe them at the time
Yes, the thoughts and feeling are neither correct or incorrect. emotions don't stand on their own, they come from thoughts. There has to be a thought about a particular event and then the emotion is attached afterward , though it feels like one thing perhaps. Like " I think this is terrible." "It shouldn't have happened." From those thoughts then the emotions whatever they are come up , whether it's disapproval, anger, etc.
I think that the awareness I have of an Ellie May is the bit that notices what this body senses or what this mind thinks or feels but I don't have any sense of who is doing the noticing - perhaps it's just more thoughts and feelings.

Could it be that what or who you think of as Ellie May is a conditioning of the mind? Labels, organization of experiences and that awareness does not need an Ellie May to operate? Your body breathes, smells, tastes, etc, but does it need an identity to do so? Are you the decider in Ellie May's life or doer? Or is it just the mind doing what it does?

Love, metta
"This too shall pass"

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Ellie May
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Re: Finding a guide

Postby Ellie May » Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:36 pm

Hello Metta

I read your post and felt uplifted by the thought that awareness does not need an Ellie May to operate - an inkling of collective consciousness at the corner of my vision - briefly glimpsed. Then I watched the film you sent which I found very interesting and helpful, it seemed to suggest that the right brain with it's cocktail of skandhas is aware of our oneness with all but that our left brain is the bit that gets confused and thinks in terms of I. My initial response was wow! I'd like it to be right brain all the way and then I remembered that I have to leave for work shortly so as to be there to see my patients etc etc. How can I encourage the left brain, the I, to remember the right brain and that we are we? Whilst I have a body I wonder how to harmonise the knowledge of oneness with the day to day stuff of sleeping, eating, working etc.

With love
Ellie May

Love Ellie May

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Metta777
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Re: Finding a guide

Postby Metta777 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:48 am

Hi Ellie May,

Not collective, Only ONE awareness. Is there an edge to consciousness in awareness? Can it be seen where it leaves off and begins somewhere else? Perhaps what was mentioned earlier was dependent origination? Is your self just an awareness from your brain?
I'd like it to be right brain all the way and then I remembered that I have to leave for work shortly so as to be there to see my patients etc etc. How can I encourage the left brain, the I, to remember the right brain and that we are we? Whilst I have a body I wonder how to harmonise the knowledge of oneness with the day to day stuff of sleeping, eating, working etc.


If there is what has been learned, conditioned ,labeled and organized and pure energy is the background of reality, where is the I? Or another way, Identity is a fabrication of the mind isn't it?

In talking about the relative and the absolute, yes, there is work, survival, eating, smelling, tasting, hearing, etc. In living in the moment by moment NOW, where is self? Could self be a projection based on Experiences? A baby having no self until 18 to 22 months of age would indicate what?

No right brain all the way, because there is a need to function in daily life, but could it be that life is impersonal ? Could it be it happens as it happens, life living itself, and identity is the mental framework or conceptual overlay of the functioning?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... 6S9OidmNZM , take a look here, and let me know how this sits.

Love, metta
"This too shall pass"

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Ellie May
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Re: Finding a guide

Postby Ellie May » Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:44 pm

Thank you for your last post and the youtube link - I seem to be out of time today but I'll respond in the morning.

With love Ellie May

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Metta777
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Re: Finding a guide

Postby Metta777 » Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:39 am

Hi, Got the message. ok. Metta
"This too shall pass"


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