Hi... Miranda is ready :)

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Miranda
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Hi... Miranda is ready :)

Postby Miranda » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:48 am

Hello out there... is there anyone who is available to guide me to true self-reflection? I can feel I'm on the brink of breaking through, and would be grateful for any assistance. Much love, Miranda

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Canfora
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Re: Hi... Miranda is ready :)

Postby Canfora » Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:31 am

Hi, Miranda and welcome to LU.

Here are a few ground rules:

You agree to post at least once a day, even if only to say "still here!"

Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention into seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.

If you haven't already seen it, there is intro info here http://www.liberationunleashed.com/ , our disclaimer and a short video too.

If you could confirm you have seen all the above and would like me to be your guide - then we shall begin:

What are your expectations for this process?

How will it change you?

How will this feel?


Much love, Canfora

(You can press subscribe to this topic in the blue bar at the bottom of this page and receive an email every time I post here. You may also find the quote function useful when replying, as it means you can bring any questions or points from previous postings into your responses. See guidance here - http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660)

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Miranda
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Re: Hi... Miranda is ready :)

Postby Miranda » Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:27 am

Hi Canfora, and thank you so much for being 'my' guide! I don't really have any well-formulated expectations, other than I'm about to embark on a journey that will help me let go of all the stories that define WHO 'I' am. I imagine that you will help to crack my egoic shell to 'let the light in' to quote Leonard Cohen.
How will this change me? Ummmm.... just slow down, or even stop, the incessant internal dialogue that currently plagues me.
How will this feel? Peaceful. Calm. Energetic.
Looking forward to hearing from you :) Thanks again.

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Canfora
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Re: Hi... Miranda is ready :)

Postby Canfora » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:16 pm

Hi Miranda, I’m glad to “see” you again.

Please confirm that you have read the LU disclaimer: http://www.liberationunleashed.com/.

Thank you for answering my question about expectations. At this point we are going to put any expectations to rest (you can always pick them up later if you wish…).

If I say “There is no 'you' in any way shape or form, never was, and never will be.” What are YOUR thoughts, emotions, sensations about this?

Looking forward to your answer.

Canfora :)

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Miranda
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Re: Hi... Miranda is ready :)

Postby Miranda » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:06 am

Hi Canfora,
I have indeed read the disclaimer and watched the video - thanks. Sorry for forgetting to let you know yesterday!
“There is no 'you' in any way shape or form, never was, and never will be.” Intellectually, I agree with this - I can see my 'self' as indistinct from any other 'self' - or anything created out of matter, for that matter ;) Life as a freezing/melting/freezing/melting ever-changing experience. Yet a mild sense of panic wants to argue the point - wants to say, "But 'I' have lived in THIS body for 51 years, 'I' have MEMORIES of living in this body, as a separate entity, going back to the womb." So, yes, emotionally there is still this panicky, slightly fearful resistance to this truth you propose. The thought "but I don't WANT to 'admit' that I am him/her (people I tend to judge as being neurotic/controlling etc) as much as I am 'me'." I can see how the illusion of separation serves my ego, with thoughts such as this. Right now I have the physical sensation of a big ball of tension in my solar plexus, which is quite uncomfortable. I am also aware of choosing my words carefully so as to create a favourable impression upon you! I am also feeling quite excited at the prospect of this egodectomy!
Looking forward to hearing from you again,
Miranda

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Canfora
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Re: Hi... Miranda is ready :)

Postby Canfora » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:30 am

Hi Miranda!
I have indeed read the disclaimer and watched the video - thanks. Sorry for forgetting to let you know yesterday!


Good, thank you.
I am also feeling quite excited at the prospect of this egodectomy!


Yes! This is very exciting, LOOKing to what’s happening, to what’s real, in YOUR life.
I am also aware of choosing my words carefully so as to create a favourable impression upon you!
That's OK. I can relate with the "people pleasing mode". I really appreciate your honesty and the way you are talking from your direct experience.
Right now I have the physical sensation of a big ball of tension in my solar plexus, which is quite uncomfortable.
I’m familiar with that sensation :). Let's "walk" together looking at this. How would you call it? Fear?

Stay with this sensation, accept it, don’t fear it. The sensation is there like a cloud is in the sky. It’s impersonal and transitory.

It's a mechanism, working perfectly as a security system. It’s protecting something…

When you allow this sensation, can you SEE what's behind it? Tell me Miranda, what is the sensation hiding?

Looking forward to your answer.

Love, Canfora

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Miranda
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Re: Hi... Miranda is ready :)

Postby Miranda » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:34 am

Hello again Canfora :)

We must be in different parts of the globe .... hehehe .... I just noticed a desire to tell you 'my' story ... as if this would justify this attachment to the notion of 'me' as a separate entity.
The sensation .... hmmm. That ball of tension has dispersed a little, and is spreading up to my throat, and making my shoulders extremely tense. I see what you mean about it protecting something. WHAT is it hiding? My mind throws up horrid criticisms - very negative reasons for why I wouldn't want to see. But I reject them, for I know the true nature of my self, as blameless love. It could be a fear about how others perceive me....? Fear of rejection? Yes. I think this is it. Fear of rejection.
Thanks again.

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Canfora
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Re: Hi... Miranda is ready :)

Postby Canfora » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:40 pm

Hello Miranda!
We must be in different parts of the globe
Yes, I’m in Portugal and here we are, talking at LU. Life works in mysterious and funny ways…
I just noticed a desire to tell you 'my' story
I’ve been thinking that you are familiar with “The Work” of Byron Katie. Is it true? ;)


Let’s look to reality vs. imagination.

Do you agree with me that REAL is something that doesn’t disappear when you stop believing in it?

For instance, your computer is real, it’s a THING.

Portugal is a LABEL that points to a piece of land. I use this word to communicate something to you, but Portugal can’t be found in reality, it’s not a thing, it’s a thought/LABEL about something that exists in reality.

Then there’s unicorns, fairies, Harry Potter, words that point to something that’s imaginary.

Is a thought real? Thoughts appear and disappear in your experience, like objects. Do you control your thoughts or are they just doing what thoughts do, create an illusion of a separate mind, a story of you?

Is a feeling real? They also appear and disappear in your experience, but if you stop believing in them, do feelings disappear? Can you choose what you want to feel or control your feelings at all?

Is Miranda real? When you LOOK to what’s in your direct experience (not THINKit, really look) can you find Miranda? There’s thoughts, feelings, sensations, perception, a story of you being lived… Are they a real I?

Is Miranda
That ball of tension
shoulders extremely tense
horrid criticisms
Fear of rejection
?

What is she, can you find her? Or is Miranda a believe, a story, like - let’s say - Harry Potter.
I know the true nature of my self, as blameless love
What is this self you talk about?

Please answer to all that is underlined and don’t try to be perfect in your answers, just talk from what you SEE.

Love, Canfora

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Miranda
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Re: Hi... Miranda is ready :)

Postby Miranda » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:47 am

Good morning Canfora! It is a beautiful sunny day here for a change (usually it is raining!). You are right - I am familiar with Byron Katie's work - I love her :)

I have always had difficulty with notions of what is real and what is not real. I THINK I can agree with your definition.
My reality is pretty magical however. I have seen fairies, for instance! And energy fields, and things that others call 'imagination.' It is difficult to deny one's own experiences...

I am not sure if thoughts and feelings are real (they certainly feel real in the moment of experiencing) ... I am not sure if I can choose them or not, but I have been trying, in my day to day life, to NOT entertain them as truth. Not to RESIST them, but rather OBSERVE them and tell myself, "I don't have to believe this thought or these feelings." Which is another thought! THen again, we are always being urged to TRUST our INTUITION as truth ... this is where I get really confused ....?

I have had the experience though of being able to switch my feelings around, from negative to positive, through sheer effort of will. Which actually goes against BK's philosophy of surrender, and "loving what is." Confusing, alright.

Am 'I' real?
Right NOW I seem as real as the cup of tea I'm drinking, the birdsong and the sunshine ... but for me to find 'Miranda' I have to THINK a lot, fill in gaps, and yes, write a STORY. In this moment, NOW, this does not interest me. I am just experiencing life. And it is peaceful and light.

I think when I wrote that I know the true nature of myself, which is blameless love, I was referring to the Self that we all are. The non-separate Self. God, even. Again, I know this more as an intellectual than an experiential thing, although I have had glimpses, in meditative states.

I woke up this morning feeling very clear and free of tension. Perhaps it's the sunshine. Perhaps it's this process. Anyway, thank you. Have a lovely day.

Love,
Miranda

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Canfora
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Re: Hi... Miranda is ready :)

Postby Canfora » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:55 pm

Good morning, Miranda!

I am familiar with Byron Katie's work - I love her too :) “The work” helped me to deal with stressful thoughts and suffer less with stories. Her books are wonderful (I read a lot).
I have always had difficulty with notions of what is real and what is not real. I THINK I can agree with your definition.
If we look to our DE the distinction between what’s real and what’s imagination or a label, can be seen. In my experience a thought is REAL, because exists. But the thought is not the real thing and a thought can’t think, it can only point to something.
My reality is pretty magical however. I have seen fairies, for instance! And energy fields, and things that others call 'imagination.'
That’s wonderful. I would like to have that kind of experiences. I don’t have any reason to not believe you. I’m going to explain what I wanted to point when I talked about fairies in another way:

There is no “you” living the experiences that your describing “the cup of tea…, the birdsong and the sunshine”. You never existed.

There’s a body and a brain – they’re real. There’s a feeling of being alive – that’s not going to go away. Life will go on as it always has. But the belief that there is a “you” can be seen as just that, a belief.

Do you remember how was like when you realized there was no Santa? This is the same. We are seeing trough the illusion we’ve been thought by our parents, society, books, etc. There is no Santa and there is no separate I.

You know that fairies exist because you had a DE with them. I know an I doesn’t exist because I couldn’t find one in my DE. The objective of this exploration that we are doing together is make you SEE, without a doubt, that there’s no I in your DE.
It is difficult to deny one's own experiences...
I don’t expect you to deny your experience. It’s quite the opposite. I want you to LOOK to your DE and find there what’s real.
I am not sure if thoughts and feelings are real (they certainly feel real in the moment of experiencing) ...
If you’re not sure keep looking. A little exercise: notice the sounds your hearing, like the birds song. Notice the familiar thought: “I hear that.” Then just pay attention to how sound happens. Take your time with it. Tell me what’s real in this experience. Is an I there?
I am not sure if I can choose them or not
Don’t think of a pink elephant! Well, you just did. Did you choose to think about it?

Don’t think for 10 minutes… How does that go?

Have only happy thoughts for the rest of the day.

Can we choose our thoughts? How do we do that? Please LOOK and tell me.
I have been trying, in my day to day life, to NOT entertain them as truth.
From my experience I can say that all the thoughts I have are true… They are a true experience, a mind object!

But If I have a thought about the past, the future, Santa Claus, Harry Potter, what I think happened in a situation I’m looking to labels, interpretation, a mental story. And the content of those thoughts is not true.

Thoughts = true “objects” in DE.

“I was a very shy kid” = a story of the past appearing as a thought in the NOW. The existence of these thoughts is true; the story is only in my imagination.

“It’s a bird” = Is a bird a “bird”? No. “Bird” is just a noun, that labels something in reality.

“I’m sad.” = interpretation of a sensation in the body. Mind telling a story. What is this I? It’s just a sensation being labeled with a noun.

“Santa Claus” = not real, imagination, story. An illusion, like the I story.
Not to RESIST them, but rather OBSERVE them and tell myself, "I don't have to believe this thought or these feelings."
Yes! Let thoughts be, they already are anyway. Its only mind, playing games, to keep you from seeing what’s real. You can’t THINK yourself trough this (thoughts will always tell you stories about Miranda and that Miranda is real – that’s their job) you can only see it in your DE if you LOOK beyond your thoughts, feelings, sensations. Is there a Miranda beyond all this? What’s that?
Which is another thought!
Exactely!
THen again, we are always being urged to TRUST our INTUITION as truth ... this is where I get really confused ....?
Don’t believe what other people say – including me – find what’s real for you. Forget all you were thought and just LOOK to what’s in reality.

You already know this, Miranda. It’s something very close to you, very simple. It was there when you were a little baby, living freely in the flow, as birds, dogs and trees do. It is there when you look at your direct experience without thinking about it. It is there when there’s a feeling that happens without a cause, that we sometimes label as piece or love.

There’s a sense of being alive, there’s a sense of uniqueness, but where’s the I in this? Is the existence of an I necessary?
I have had the experience though of being able to switch my feelings around, from negative to positive, through sheer effort of will.
You fell something and you label it fear or confusion. There’s a stream of thoughts: “I don’t want to fell like this, I’m going to have only happy thoughts and chance the way I fell.” There are thoughts about loved ones and experiences we think we prefer. There’s a feeling and thoughts of being in control. But is it true?
Right NOW I seem as real as the cup of tea I'm drinking, the birdsong and the sunshine ...
You can see the cup of tea and drink the tea, you can hear the birds, you can fell the sun in your skin and see the way it shines around you. This is REALITY. Where is this I that seems to see, drink, hear and feel? Can you point to it with your finger, like you can do to the cup? Where’s your proof of its reality?
but for me to find 'Miranda' I have to THINK a lot, fill in gaps, and yes, write a STORY. In this moment, NOW, this does not interest me. I am just experiencing life. And it is peaceful and light.
Beautiful. You can’t find it because it doesn’t exist. Your thoughts give reality to it. And in reality everything keeps the same. You are seeing things as they are, without trying to make reality match your expectations of what it should be…

Is there a me that doesn’t is interested? What is it?
I think when I wrote that I know the true nature of myself, which is blameless love, I was referring to the Self that we all are. The non-separate Self. God, even. Again, I know this more as an intellectual than an experiential thing, although I have had glimpses, in meditative states.
I don’t think our mind can understand this “mystery”. Words can’t catch it. It’s mind blowing. But we don’t need to go there to see there’s no I.
I woke up this morning feeling very clear and free of tension. Perhaps it's the sunshine. Perhaps it's this process.
Good, keep going in the flow, tell me what you SEE, and please answer my questions, one by one. My questions are in bold and underline. You can't miss them :)

Love, Canfora

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Miranda
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Re: Hi... Miranda is ready :)

Postby Miranda » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:27 am

Dear Canfora,
THANK YOU for your beautiful beautiful words.... I want to contemplate them deeply and answer you properly, so I will do so tomorrow!
Much love,
Miranda

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Canfora
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Re: Hi... Miranda is ready :)

Postby Canfora » Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:23 pm

Dear Miranda,

Don't think too much... thinking will not make you “cross the Gate”… SEE what’s true in your reality…

Is there a “you”, a Miranda, that isn’t just a story?

Much love, Canfora

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Miranda
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Re: Hi... Miranda is ready :)

Postby Miranda » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:22 am

Hello Canfora - Apologies for not replying yesterday... we run on solar power and our batteries were low yesterday, so no computer!Tell me what’s real in this experience (hearing exercise). Is an I there?
Don’t think for 10 minutes… How does that go?
Can we choose our thoughts? How do we do that?
What is this I?
Is there a Miranda beyond all this? What’s th
There’s a sense of being alive, there’s a sense of uniqueness, but where’s the I in this? Is the existence of an I necessary?
There’s a feeling and thoughts of being in control. But is it true?
Where is this I that seems to see, drink, hear and feel? Can you point to it with your finger, like you can do to the cup? Where’s your proof of its reality?
Is there a me that doesn’t is interested? What is it?

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Miranda
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Re: Hi... Miranda is ready :)

Postby Miranda » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:36 am

Now, to answer these questions....
Tell me what’s real in this experience (hearing exercise). Is an I there? This is a great exercise... I watch my mind busily naming every sound ... it seems to make 'me' feel safer... having labels on every experience! The sounds are real. They are form. But no, there's no I there.

Don’t think for 10 minutes… How does that go?
Moments of blue sky ... mostly observing the clouds of thought.

Can we choose our thoughts? How do we do that? No, we can only observe them. They seem to appear - some from within, some from outside of 'me'

Is there a Miranda beyond all this?
There’s a sense of being alive, there’s a sense of uniqueness, but where’s the I in this? Is the existence of an I necessary? It doesn't seem so! :D!
There’s a feeling and thoughts of being in control. But is it true? Here's where I skid to a halt. The fulcrum of self determination and predestiny... I think we can impose patterns on our life experiences after the fact, but really I don't feel as though I am in charge at all :-P
Where is this I that seems to see, drink, hear and feel? Can you point to it with your finger, like you can do to the cup? Where’s your proof of its reality? You know, Canfora, right NOW I don't feel separate from anything at all. Wyrd.
Is there a me that doesn’t is interested? What is it? No - it is ALL just a mental construct! Halleluah! Thanks, beautiful! XXX

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Canfora
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Re: Hi... Miranda is ready :)

Postby Canfora » Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:38 am

Dear Miranda,

You did a lovely job SEEing in your DE! I'm happy for you.

It's OK not answering for a day or two. Just stick with direct experience in your everyday life and have fun with it. You’re looking "behind" years and years of conditioning!

Back to your answers:
I watch my mind busily naming every sound
Do this exercise: when something appears - whatever it is - focus on it with laser sharpness. Observe it before any thoughts about it appear.

Is there an "I" watching before the thoughts appear? Tell me what you see.

... it seems to make 'me' feel safer... having labels on every experience!
"it seems to make "me" feel safer..." ----> another thought.
Can a thought make "you" safer? How?
The sounds are real. They are form. But no, there's no I there.
Yes, yes, yes.
Don’t think for 10 minutes… How does that go?
Moments of blue sky ... mostly observing the clouds of thought.
Good, you saw that "clouds of thought" keep appearing even when you try not to think. If you keep looking at this you will start to realize that thinking is happening on its own, that having control of thoughts is another illusion.
They seem to appear - some from within, some from outside of 'me'
Is there an inside and an outside in your DE?
Another little exercise: close your eyes and search for the boundary of "me". Where do you end and where does the world begin? Can you find the limits of your body? Are the sounds inside or outside? Are the thoughts inside or outside? Tell me what you see.
There’s a feeling and thoughts of being in control. But is it true?
Well, Miranda. In my experience after "crossing the gate" I still have thoughts about a separate I, inside of this body, that's in control. "I" just know they're not true. Wen I look I can' find a “I”, just the thoughts about an I.
I think we can impose patterns on our life experiences after the fact, but really I don't feel as though I am in charge at all :-P
Yes, mind is always seeing patterns - after the fact as you so well say. Thoughts can't make our life experiences happen (thoughts can't even think!).
You don't feel that you’re in charge because there's no I in charge, no I in control. Life's just happening in a perfect flow.
Is there a me that doesn’t is interested? What is it? No - it is ALL just a mental construct! Halleluah!
Dear Miranda, let’s go back to the "beginning": if I say “There is no 'you' in any way shape or form, never was, and never will be.”, what thoughts, emotions, sensations arise?

Take your time doing the exercises and answering, LOOK to what's real for you, here and now, and have fun :)

Love, Canfora


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