Requesting Ilona as a guide

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Creativeheart
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Requesting Ilona as a guide

Postby Creativeheart » Thu May 23, 2013 12:19 am

Hi there,
A dear and trusted friend recommended this site to me - so I've been reading some threads and am about half way through reading the gateless gate - and much of what I've read resonates with all the searching I've been doing over the last 13 years - through all sorts of meditation and retreats, countless books .. and I'm still frustrated.. I want to be free from this needing and searching for the truth.
I understand, there can be no 'I' but thinking about it brings me to the sense of being on the edge of a cliff with the fear of loosing 'everything', loosing 'me' ... but I get cognitively that there is nothing to loose that everything just is.. and that this body just is, doing, seeing, dancing, painting, drawing, breathing..... and the fear goes especially when I paint: allowing the painting to come through me... and I put the paint brush down and sit with that sense of calm, gentle spaciousness for a while.. but its always just a while .. then back to the threadmill of busy doing doing life.
I feel I'm wandering around looking for something that is right under my nose.... wandering around convinced that something should be there.... but it isn't...
I would really love some help to see the truth of this 'I', if you can guide me I would really appreciate it.
Thank you for what you are doing here on this site - I'm quite overwhelmed by all I've been reading.
With love.
Sinead

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Nina
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Re: Requesting Ilona as a guide

Postby Nina » Thu May 23, 2013 11:18 am

Hello My name is Nina I would love to walk with you.
I joined last October and the process was liberating if you would like me to support you through this process i am happy to do so

Do not be frightened we will take things at your pace

Love and Light

Nina

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Nina
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Re: Requesting Ilona as a guide

Postby Nina » Thu May 23, 2013 11:39 am

First, I will be here throughout the process and will post at least once a day if not more. The frequency is up to you, but I've found that the more you post, the easier this process can be because it keeps the process fresh.

Secondly, I ask that you come to this with a full commitment to get it done. And we will! :) That commitment includes bringing an honesty to your inquiry. How is that done? Well, by answering any questions I ask with what feels 100% true for you, even if it does not seem 'spiritually correct'. As you'll see, being spiritually correct is actually a deterrent.
Put aside any fear or anxiety we will take this at your pace.

I'd also ask that you put aside any and all teachings while we do this. Come to all questions with an open mind. That's done so that you can find your own truth and answers rather than looking toward someone else's version of how this should work.


If so, please let me know a bit about your seeking history, and what your expectations for this process are.
Please also let me know any fears you may have so we can sought them out at the start of the process.
Look forward to your next post
Love and Light

Nina

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Creativeheart
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Re: Requesting Ilona as a guide

Postby Creativeheart » Thu May 23, 2013 1:59 pm

Hi Nina,
Thank you for your response. I had been looking for Ilona as a guide but am happy for you to guide me : )
I have been nervous of making contact and now I am happy to have started.

Yes I'll aim to post at least once a day - I understand how frequency keeps the process fresh.

And yes I am fully committed to this - you have my word on that. Thank you for your positivity!

I'm happy to put teachings to one side - I have never felt an affinity for any set of teachings - I'm always happy to read and listen but feel the necessity to 'really feel and see' the truth for myself.

My seeking history:
This started 17 years ago with looking for some understanding of what i felt were states of depression in earlier stages of my life and then confusion and sadness after my Dads death. This I sought through reading and therapy first, and then through Buddhist meditation and yoga... with some success in that I discovered that I could choose to sit and be calm.
I tried many different types of meditation: and found great relief and 'life' in movement meditation - which is now a daily practice, and through my art: both of which are intuitive 'listening' practices - where I follow the honesty of my body: how it wants to move with thoughts as they arise. These practices allow me to see thoughts and not get so hooked on them- of course this is a practice and very often I am caught up in old stories and thoughts - but I have had moments of realisation that I am not this body - but that it is dancing, it is drawing .... and 'i' am some how just seeing it/ observing it - this is a divinely beautiful, light and joyful sense of lightness.
I spent a few months in silence meditating on the Kabbalistic tree of life a few years ago - and got very hooked and lost on darker thoughts.
I've travelled to India to study yoga and Tibetan Mediation. I follow my heart: looking for a simpler way of explaining how to look on life. So far if I was to say there were any teachings (rather than body listening) that really resonates it would be the very simple teachings of Ramana Maharshi: "Who am I?" is often my meditation.
And more recently I have been using healing codes and some shamanic practices as a means of exploring.

My expectations are: to step by step find a way to see through the truth of the 'I'. This makes my thoughts 'curl': after writing that. There are thoughts of confusion and achy fear: maybe I don't want to see!? I feel this is a little like looking at one of those strange muddled drawings where there is a hidden image or two different images - you look and look and don't know what you're even looking for ..and then .... ta'dah! there it is: the image revealed!

My fears: That I can't do it... that for some reason 'I' am not good enough to realise the truth. I'm afraid that I won't be able to see, that i will try and rationalise all of this and get caught up in trying to work it out... and that I'll be here for months ...and that you will give up on me (nothing personal Nina - its an old story).

I'm not sure if all of that makes sense... please ask me for clarification if it doesn't.

I'm happy to have started and am very very grateful to have you as my guide.
looking forward to hearing from you.
S.

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Nina
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Re: Requesting Ilona as a guide

Postby Nina » Thu May 23, 2013 5:23 pm

Ok just take a moment and stop the critical thoughts.
I will walk every step of the way with you.
Spend a little time if you can walking just look at things like birds any thing you like tell me what you see.
what you thought, what did you feel
Give yourself a positive stroke for finding Liberation.
Please understand that every one i have supported has reached their goal

Love and Light

Nina

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Creativeheart
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Re: Requesting Ilona as a guide

Postby Creativeheart » Thu May 23, 2013 9:27 pm

Thank you Nina,

Critical thoughts: stopped (for now at least)

I waked home through the park and under and beautiful archway of soft leafed lime trees.
walking under them I see leaves as shapes and light.. bright green with glimpses of the sky and I feel calm ... peaceful. Magnificent is the word that comes to mind when I'm there looking at them.. looking in awe....
Words are limited in describing how I feel - there is no critic, no chatter, no words - there is hardly even any sense of me as anything that I relate to in comparison to when I hear the critic.
I thought about how calm my body feels, how light and free. I thought about .... very little really. I just enjoyed taking them in with my eyes, appreciating then for what they are, appreciating how the leaves and branches move, how still and calm the trunk is and how pleasant it was to be there.
Thank you for your support
Sx

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Nina
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Re: Requesting Ilona as a guide

Postby Nina » Fri May 24, 2013 9:18 am

No problem have to go to a funeral today will post later

love and light

Nina

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Creativeheart
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Re: Requesting Ilona as a guide

Postby Creativeheart » Fri May 24, 2013 11:20 am

Hi Nina,

My blessings for the person who has passed on.

This morning meditating.. I was remembering and being with what I was feeling yesterday walking under the trees...Who is choosing to look at the trees, the leaves?... who is choosing to walk?... the questions are a cognitive thing .... but when I turn to looking I see that there is no-one choosing. There is no-one to choose.
All of us (as I cycled through the city to work this morning) walking, cycling, driving, beeping, drinking coffee ... no 'thing' there to make these choices.... gliding along.. cycling and taking in how easy it was. Enjoying watching my body respond and swerve the bicycle as pedestrians stepped out onto the street.... There was no 'I' manoeuvring the bike.. but my body was cycling - and smiling.. and some something was / is seeing..witnessing.
Some voice says - how dare you say there is no-'one' choosing ... I am! I'm choosing!!! I am 'the one'! ...Who? Where? When?
But when is it choosing? At what stage of the arising thought is it choosing? When could a choice even be made?! The beginning.. middle .. or end of a thought?! When? How? ... not possible...
I've been noticing thoughts arising over the last few weeks, Sometimes going with one thought and sometimes another and feeling being amused with how much like a ping-pong ball the thoughts and 'chosen decisions' are ... there is no consistency .. just fun randomness... sometimes 'going with' one thought, sometimes disliking it, sometimes briefly seeing it and moving on to another. Sometimes 'me' witnessing and feeling a part of a decision and sometimes no 'me' witnessing and decisions being made all by themselves! What fun! How strange and exciting this feels... like realising that I've been taking on far too much responsibility... that there is far less than I realised... 'to do'.
This sense of seeing feels like a finely balanced thing... coming and going.

Going to witness multi-tasking now: looking at this and working at the same time.. ha ha! ; )
So thats where I am ... for now...

...and now wondering about the funeral and about the person who has died.... and about what to say to you that acknowledges that you have been to a funeral... that there may be sadness about a 'ceased' life....
...and wondering where the seer associated with that dead person is now... its no where.. has it ceased? But there is nothing to cease... nothing was there to begin with... I'm finding that scary based on beliefs that I have 'gathered' through my life... but it 'feels' very beautiful and free...
..ok ...working.... seeing.... multi-tasking....

Sx

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Nina
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Re: Requesting Ilona as a guide

Postby Nina » Fri May 24, 2013 9:14 pm

Thank you very much for your concern I went in place of my husband it was his best friends father who died after a very short illness.
You seem to have experienced much of this process over the years I will ask just one question at a time.
Give your responses from direct experience.
If you feel emotional or have any reactions that cause fear please send me a private message.

“What comes up when it is read that there is absolutely no “you” in any way, shape or form, there never
has been a “you”, nor is there or will be there ever be?”

Thank you again for your love and concern
Love and Light

Nina

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Creativeheart
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Re: Requesting Ilona as a guide

Postby Creativeheart » Sat May 25, 2013 12:44 am

when I read this first I felt dispassionate… of course this is the truth – but this is again figuring it out in my head… understanding the ‘logic’ of this..

In my body my chest tightens, I feel a mild sense of panic, ‘never has been’ so there is nothing to hold on to and it feels like falling … like the cliff that I have been standing on has didappeared.

A wave of humility, sadness.. lostness.. floating in space.. a dream from childhood of there being nothing with an infinite fall

…so if there is no me and never has or will be a me in any way shape or form … what is this seeing that ‘I’ witness… what and who and how is this witnessing?

I feel numb… this ‘I’ who has never existed feels sad …
‘I’ feel this body sitting, fingers typeing, seeing this room, the computer screen, ‘I’ notice thoughts arising
… thoughts are just arising…. One after another…
… I understand the ‘no me’ but don’t fully feel it.

I’m going to sleep on this… good night…
x

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Creativeheart
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Re: Requesting Ilona as a guide

Postby Creativeheart » Sat May 25, 2013 2:36 pm

So, back again with more:
After a strange and uneasy sleep:

“There is no me in any way shape of form.. there never was and never will be:
Whats comes up is: lostness, with a desire to be found. A feeling of emptiness, feeling how impersonal this is .. puzzled, confused, upset… feeling sadness – wanting to understand, wanting to see this, feeling heavy confounded… and that word that makes me laugh.. flummoxed… humour.. well that’s still there : )

If there is no ‘I‘ no ‘me’ – and if this is really seen – life is not going to change so I don’t need to be afriad… life is just happening.. but with no ‘me’ in charge doing the choosing.

Waking up, there is nothing and then … seeing… lying in bed wondring who or what is choosing to finally get this body out of bed. Feels again like emptiness Like ‘I’ve been fired from my job but still keep showing up for something that is not necessary – but I think that it still is. That the world will fall apart if ‘I’ don’t keep showing up!

Candles are burning – but nothing is ‘burning them ..but that’s ok they’re over there and they are ony candles.. nothing to do with ‘me’.

My body is digesting, breathing .. and that s ok - I don’t even know the names for half the ‘stuff’ indside this body, let alone understand how it all works … and could never claim to be in control of it.. choosing what it does.. its doing a fine job on its own! No ‘me’ required.

But I do feel that some ‘I’ makes choices for this body – choosing good food, to do exercise, to sit and find calm…

I ‘choose’ to meditate but as I sit – thoughts arise without any creating or choosing on ‘my’ part.
I ‘choose’ to dance but my body dances to the music moving with the music… expressing what needs to be expressed. I see that there is no ‘I’ choosing the movement.

Choosing… but no “I’ and still the process unfolds… like all of my life is just as mysterious as what is going on inside this body.. I don’t know all the pieces but they just ‘happen’.

Feeling calmer for writing … there is a calmness in this unknowable body.. in this ‘unknowable living, breathing, choosing body.
Thoughts come up around feeling hunger… breakfast…
Who reads this blog.. my writing… feeling embarrassed and vulnerable and exposed… but who is feeling embarrassed and vulnerable if there is and never was a ‘me’.

I’ve believed that ‘I’ have been choosing to accept nicer thoughts, choosing to make healther choices… always feeling inadequate to make the right decisions.. wanting to work it all out … make sense of it alll… it feels exhausting and …. Futile

Sitting and looking at this a liitle more … no ‘I’ choosing … so no ‘I’ to fail, no ‘I’ to get it wrong.
This being feels lighter.. more expansive.. freer

Who am I?
I am… simply that.. I am…
I am is a name … a label
I am .. breathing… literally I am the breathing.. I am the verb
I am: seeing. I am: confusing. I am: deciding. I am: choosing.
I am – no.. thing.
You are Nina-ing Unfolding Nina-ness

Love me as ‘I am’ …
‘I am’ = ‘this labelled consciousness is: feeling, remembering, hurting, crying, aching….. laughing

There was no me, there is no me there never will be a me … but there is breathing… there is seeing… there is choosing….

‘I am’: stopping.
x

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Nina
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Re: Requesting Ilona as a guide

Postby Nina » Sat May 25, 2013 2:56 pm

“There is no me in any way shape of form.. there never was and never will be:
Whats comes up is: lostness, with a desire to be found. A feeling of emptiness, feeling how impersonal this is .. puzzled, confused, upset… feeling sadness – wanting to understand, wanting to see this, feeling heavy confounded… and that word that makes me laugh.. flummoxed… humour.. well that’s still there : )

Try to simplify the answer and it may not be so confusing it is clear that you are well on the way Put aside the teaching and seeking and just go with the process.

If there is no ‘I‘ no ‘me’ – and if this is really seen – life is not going to change so I don’t need to be afraid… life is just happening.. but with no ‘me’ in charge doing the choosing.
You said it yourself you don't need to be afraid like following the yellow brick road one step at a time.

“In direct experience, can you find an “I” that experiences experience?”
or
“Is there a seer separate from the seen?”
or
“Is there a hearer that hears?”

Love and light
Nina

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Creativeheart
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Re: Requesting Ilona as a guide

Postby Creativeheart » Sat May 25, 2013 5:39 pm

In direct experience, can you find an “I” that experiences experience?”
No. No 'I' there that can be detected.....
The experience is .. just experienced …
No “I” to get cold .. there is the feeling of coldness being experienced.
“Is there a seer separate from the seen?”
No there isn’t – there is seeing – taking in shapes and forms, light and dark. Shapes and forms are seen.. oh
–there is no separation between the rain and the seeing of the rain…
rain is raining…. Seer is seeing… seeing raining… seeing computering...

If there is no seeing then there is nothing to be seen…
if there is nothing..... then there is no seeing.

oh wow.... all verbs... everything is arising / being experienced...

“Is there a hearer that hears?”
No. No hearer.. there is hearing

There is sound that is heard… there is no sound ....if there is no hearing.. no hearing if there is no sound.
hearing and sounding are co-arising...

like a river... it isn't a river unless it has somewhere to go - so the water and the river bank are all the river ......all dependent ... but none of them river

saying they are dependent isn't the case .... they just are ..

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Nina
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Re: Requesting Ilona as a guide

Postby Nina » Sat May 25, 2013 5:55 pm

Loved your last post lets now go on to the next step in our journey.
"does the body experience sensations and thought?
or
is the "body" just another thought label for sensations


Hope you are having a lovely weekend.

Love and light

Nina

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Creativeheart
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Re: Requesting Ilona as a guide

Postby Creativeheart » Sat May 25, 2013 6:28 pm

Hi Nina,
Yes having a lovely weekend ..
"does the body experience sensations and thought?
it feels like the body is experiencing sensations – feeling finger tips on the computer keys…. feeling ‘my’ bum on the chair…

but it is the feeling of bum on chair-ness that is just being experienced .. if there is no sensation of bum on chair then there is no bum on chair…
there is no body… yikes.. there is body-ing arising… oh …
and there is no chair, there is chair-ing arising….
No body experiencing chair ….
But there is the conscious experiencing of these co-arisings…

As for thoughts… no the body does not experience thoughts… definitely not… thoughts arise… into consciousness…
Where is consciousness? its not in the body.. its not anywhere.. it isn’t anything anywhere… consciousness and thoughts are co-arising…
No conscousness: no thoughts, No thoughts: no consciousness

“is the "body" just another thought label for sensations”
No… not a label for sensations.. but it is a label.
Hold on.
The body is a label for the collective breathing, moving, growing, containing –ness of …. Hmm… nothing…
because the body does not exist…
The label for the body is a thought describing the experiencing of sensations…
...so I guess ..yes it is a thought created label that describes the experience of sensations..


hmm there is more but I have to go and visit my niblings…
Will see what a 1, 3, 5 and 7 year old have to say about all of this…
: )
Will write more later.


Thank you Nina.
X


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