requesting guidance

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rosy
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requesting guidance

Postby rosy » Sat May 11, 2013 4:14 pm

I stumbled on an experience of not believing in myself about 6 years ago - this had a huge impact but I turned to an old format of meditation to sustain it and the experience faded. Since then I've had moments/phases of flowing peacefully without too much self going on ( just looking, hearing, driving etc) but these tantalising glimpses are followed by contraction. These feel very physical, anxiety and fear in the body and old emotional wounds re-emerge. I then have to work to get space from associated mental themes and thoughts. I'm very motivated to do this work - so excited to find L.U. But may be I'm not close enough? Longing for liberation but have to keep remembering I'm a figment of my own imagination!

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Jack'n'theBox
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Re: requesting guidance

Postby Jack'n'theBox » Sun May 12, 2013 5:07 am

Hello Rosy (shall I call you Rosy?) My name is Mark and I can be your guide. Remember, “liberation” isn’t something you can be close to or far from. There is no self and never was, so in a way you are already “there” – all you have to do is look. It’s my job to point you in the right direction.
So if this is OK with you, please agree to the following guidelines and we can start:
Have you read the disclaimer on the homepage: http://www.liberationunleashed.com/?

Also

1. You agree to post once a day, time permitting.
2. I will post questions, which prompt your investigation and answers.
3. When you answer/report, please do so with 100% honestly and answer from what you see,
4. and when you do answer, please answer from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Long winded analytical and philosophical answers are not needed and may even hinder progress.
5. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this journey. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
6. Please learn to use the quote function, instructions are located in the link below this line:viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660
If you are OK with the above, let’s start by you telling me a bit about your expectations from this process. How do you see your role and my role in this conversation and what do you expect to get out of it? (Just to make sure we are clear about what we are doing from the beginning).
Kind regards,
Mark
People see it far away. What a pity! They are like a man who, standing in water, complains of thirst -- Hakuin

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rosy
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Re: requesting guidance

Postby rosy » Sun May 12, 2013 11:24 am

Wonderful, Mark - thank you so much!
My expectations - I'm hoping to gain stability, at the moment I have days/moments of great peaceful flowing but then I'm right back enmeshed in turbulent emotional states believing they are real or experiencing them as if they were real.
I have a background in Buddhism, years with Triratna if you know it....I'd always thought of enlightenment as perfect compassion, perfect wisdom and perfect energy. So I never really considered it a goal in any way . With this personal journey I'm discovering my own emptiness and that beyond that there seems to be love. I want to wholey embrace this and shake off the recurring hurt from old mental patterns and entrenched views! I do sort of meditate now - but it's a kind of not-really-meditating-meditating and often done lying down. I've been pretty full on working with this for a while and just longing to move forward/backward...stop!!
I'm fine with the above formal instructions - only not very techy so not sure about what the quote function is?

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Re: requesting guidance

Postby Jack'n'theBox » Sun May 12, 2013 8:29 pm

Hello Rosy
My expectations - I'm hoping to gain stability, at the moment I have days/moments of great peaceful flowing but then I'm right back enmeshed in turbulent emotional states believing they are real or experiencing them as if they were real.
Turbulent emotional states are as much a part of reality as are peaceful ones. Even after seeing through the self as an illusion, negative and painful emotions will still arise (as will positive ones!). What changes is that they are now seen as happening to no-one. There is therefore less of a tendency to push the pain away and cling onto the pleasure.
I have a background in Buddhism, years with Triratna if you know it....I'd always thought of enlightenment as perfect compassion, perfect wisdom and perfect energy. So I never really considered it a goal in any way .
I’m familiar with the Triratna approach. I cannot point you to Enlightenment – just to realization of no-self, a step on the way. But the path/goal metaphor is misleading because it suggests you need to move from where you are now. You don’t. Everything you need to see through the illusion of self is available in your direct experience at this very moment. All you need to do is LOOK.
With this personal journey I'm discovering my own emptiness and that beyond that there seems to be love. I want to wholey embrace this and shake off the recurring hurt from old mental patterns and entrenched views!
That’s great. Your intuition is right. There is love in the realization of no self. Once self view is gone the past is seen for what it is – a series of thoughts in the present moment. There is only ever the present moment so with no “I” to carry the burden of hurt with it, it can hardly recur.
I do sort of meditate now - but it's a kind of not-really-meditating-meditating and often done lying down. I've been pretty full on working with this for a while and just longing to move forward/backward...stop!!
You don’t need to “move” anywhere Rosy – where you are at in the moment is the only place you will ever be.
I'm fine with the above formal instructions - only not very techy so not sure about what the quote function is?
Using the quote function makes the conversation easy for us and the other guides to follow so please have a go at using it – you can practice in the ‘preview’ screen till you get it right. If it’s too hard, never mind, just use a different font for your replies or place them in square brackets. And it's a good idea to type your answers out on a separate document you can save then paste it in the screen otherwise sometiems the system times out and you lose it.

OK throughout this conversation I am going to be asking you to report fully and honestly about your direct experience in the moment. Just to make sure we are on the same page about what direct experience means, please reads this attachment: http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ience.html
So let’s get started. Please consider this statement “There is no such thing as ‘me’ in experience”. Is this true? Take a look and tell me what comes up.

Kind regards,

Mark
People see it far away. What a pity! They are like a man who, standing in water, complains of thirst -- Hakuin

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rosy
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Re: requesting guidance

Postby rosy » Mon May 13, 2013 3:30 pm

Hi Mark,
I've read through the details on Direct Experience and it all makes sense. Very pleased to get your input and have mulled it over....
“There is no such thing as ‘me’ in experience”. Is this true? Take a look and tell me what comes up

When I look I see awareness flowing between the senses. I notice a visual object, then a sound, then a feeling in the body, then a thought, a comment or memory etc. I don't find anything deliberately connecting theses - just the flow. However my mental commentary is trying to convince me otherwise - ''Now I'll go upstairs. Now I'll write to Mark. Tomorrow I must rememeber the bins.''
I washed my hands noticing the water and then my hands and felt they were mine - a strong attachment and identification.
I'm moving house in a couple of weeks and feel some anxiety around this - it is mainly felt in my body as thought I'm alert for danger or threat. This feels quite primitve and solid - as though my thoughts on direct experience and my fleeting experiences of being present are light and ephemeral and the heavy anxiety-energy is really 'me'.

the past is seen for what it is – a series of thoughts in the present moment.
Great to hear this! I know this ( even superficially it helps) but I seem to need reminding ...quite often.
I have experienced a liberation from the past - one that lasted for a few days. This felt like a great inner relaxation - lovely. But this is a memory - in fact a thought only!

Back to your question.
'Me' feels like a complex system with it's own process going on. I can see my mind as insubstantial but there is a big identification with my body and I certainly can't experience perceptions through any one elses body.....
It seems that there are layers and layers to this....
There's an automatic me - doing stuff, typing these letters etc. There's a 'me' identified with current thoughts and feelings. There's a 'me' thats trying to be aware of itself.
All these 'mes' operate in quick succestion, they overlap and double up. They distract me from the truth which is emptiness - I'm designed to obscure 'myself' from 'myself!
thanks for reading this,
Rosy

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Re: requesting guidance

Postby Jack'n'theBox » Mon May 13, 2013 9:01 pm

“There is no such thing as ‘me’ in experience”. Is this true? Take a look and tell me what comes up

When I look I see awareness flowing between the senses. I notice a visual object, then a sound, then a feeling in the body, then a thought, a comment or memory etc. I don't find anything deliberately connecting theses - just the flow.
These are great observations Rosy. Notice how the mind is never steady, new sensations, thoughts, feelings are constantly arising and passing. Keep looking for any ‘thing’ that connects the events that appear in the flow and report back.
However my mental commentary is trying to convince me otherwise - ''Now I'll go upstairs. Now I'll write to Mark. Tomorrow I must rememeber the bins.''
Let’s call these “I thoughts”. They are just thoughts appearing like any other thoughts. Let’s do an exercise to see if there is actually an “I” that decides to go upstairs or put the bins out. OK. (1) Think of a number between 1 and 100; (2) Think of a colour; (3) Think of an animal with four legs. What did you find in experience when I asked you to think of these things? Is there an “I” behind the thought process that thinks “Oh 67, no wait, 33, no I know 17!” – or did a number just appear? Did you know what number was going to appear before it became a thought in the mind? Could it be that thoughts just arise but there is no “I” that is thinking them? Take a look and see.
I washed my hands noticing the water and then my hands and felt they were mine - a strong attachment and identification.
Yes the feeling that this body is me/mine is very strong. Let’s see if we can break down “the body” in experience. Please look at Elena’s video on the LU homepage where she talks about the body and the experience of “laying” and do that exercise for yourself. Lie on the bed, close your eyes and focus on the sensation of pressure along your back – stay with that experience – can you find where your body ends and the back begins or is there just a sensation of pressure? In experience all we can say is “feeling of pressure” – “my body” “is lying” “on the bed” are all imputations by thought – do the exercise and see if this is true.
I'm moving house in a couple of weeks and feel some anxiety around this - it is mainly felt in my body as thought I'm alert for danger or threat. This feels quite primitve and solid - as though my thoughts on direct experience and my fleeting experiences of being present are light and ephemeral and the heavy anxiety-energy is really 'me'.
Again, let’s break this feeling down. Close your eyes and bring your awareness onto the feeling of anxiety. “Anxiety” is a label the mind abstracts from a series of sensations/thoughts – let’s isolate them. Where are the feelings exactly? What is this experience made up of? You say “in my body” – is that an actual space – where is all this happening? Look and see.
Back to your question.
'Me' feels like a complex system with it's own process going on. I can see my mind as insubstantial but there is a big identification with my body and I certainly can't experience perceptions through any one elses body.....
It seems that there are layers and layers to this....
There's an automatic me - doing stuff, typing these letters etc. There's a 'me' identified with current thoughts and feelings. There's a 'me' thats trying to be aware of itself.
All these 'mes' operate in quick succestion, they overlap and double up. They distract me from the truth which is emptiness - I'm designed to obscure 'myself' from 'myself!
These are great observations Rosy. ‘Me’ is an abstraction made from all the complex processes you describe – but the fundamental point that we mentioned above is – is there any “thing” linking these processes together? Or are they just spontaneously arising with no-one in control? Look and see if you can find a link. The link is the key – if there is no “thing” doing these things or that these processes are happening to . . . then are they not in themselves empty?
Emptiness is the essence of the very processes you say are distracting you Rosy. Emptiness is not a state or an experience elsewhere. It is here, now, emptiness is everything going on in consciousness. Just take a look.
Kind regards,

Mark
People see it far away. What a pity! They are like a man who, standing in water, complains of thirst -- Hakuin

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rosy
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Re: requesting guidance

Postby rosy » Mon May 13, 2013 10:19 pm

Thanks Mark,
Lots to turn over, will get back to you tomorrow ....... loved this -
Emptiness is the essence of the very processes you say are distracting you Rosy. Emptiness is not a state or an experience elsewhere. It is here, now, emptiness is everything going on in consciousness. Just take a look.
so will do!
regards,
Rosy

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Re: requesting guidance

Postby rosy » Tue May 14, 2013 5:24 pm

Hi Mark,
I woke up with a sense of space – tiny gaps between things, just noticed this from time to time through a busy day. It was a pleasant sensation and I felt more spontaneous and relaxed at work ( I supply-teach kids with special needs).
I enjoy driving – it’s a time when quite a few of the ‘mes’ are happily occupied and I find I notice with clarity the unrelated meanderings of the mind and also the space when they all calm. I think I try very hard and have some judgements going on about how I ‘should’ be approaching this work with you. I still strive to be better, to be good, to be worthy of your time ( which I so appreciate).
We talked about the body yesterday – I can see what you mean that there is only the precise nature of the experience when I look carefully. The anxiety is only a tightish feeling in the chest and a holding in the guts. Not even unpleasant really, just a part of what is happening now in my experience. That is fine when I focus and just allow everything to be but when I have to act (say talk to a class) and my attention goes elsewhere the feelings of tightness and holding can impact on what is unfolding next – and then cause a domino effect of feelings and thoughts etc. I need lots of time- out to observe all this!
You asked if ‘in my body’ is an actual space – I don’t know! I can see that it is a collection of sensations and the inner ‘picture’ of ‘my body’ is a very different thing to say a photo of myself. I mean one part may signify largely e.g. a foot or an arm while the rest be mainly unnoticed for a while. I still consider my body a boundary – I know I can see afar and hear distant sounds and the sensations I have can move slightly further than my skin but even so .....
Can you say more about ‘emptiness is everything going on in consciousness’ – the words sort of thrill me! And I felt the reverberations through the night and today.
Thanks Mark,
Regards,
Rosy

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Re: requesting guidance

Postby Jack'n'theBox » Tue May 14, 2013 8:32 pm


I woke up with a sense of space – tiny gaps between things, just noticed this from time to time through a busy day. It was a pleasant sensation and I felt more spontaneous and relaxed at work ( I supply-teach kids with special needs).
It’s good to keep on relaxing – seeing through self is about letting go not building up. But let’s remain aware that states come and they go and that fear and anxiety will still arise.
I enjoy driving – it’s a time when quite a few of the ‘mes’ are happily occupied and I find I notice with clarity the unrelated meanderings of the mind and also the space when they all calm.
Driving is a good example of a complex set of processes that carry on independent of any instructions from “me” – notice how you manage to negotiate this complex procedure while talking on the mobile, looking in the glove-compartment for a CD, thinking about the past or the future – and not get killed. Is it not the case that all daily activities carry on autonomously without the second-by-second supervision of “me”. Have a look at some other daily activities and see if you can find a “me” behind them, controlling them and report back.
I think I try very hard and have some judgements going on about how I ‘should’ be approaching this work with you. I still strive to be better, to be good, to be worthy of your time ( which I so appreciate).
You are approaching this process in the only way you can and doing the best you can. Beware of words like ‘should’ or ‘could’ – they are the mind distracting you from the reality of the moment. Reality is what it is. When a ‘should’ thought appears, let it go, or better laugh at it. As if reality will change because you think it ‘should’ ha ha ha.
We talked about the body yesterday – I can see what you mean that there is only the precise nature of the experience when I look carefully. The anxiety is only a tightish feeling in the chest and a holding in the guts. Not even unpleasant really, just a part of what is happening now in my experience. That is fine when I focus and just allow everything to be but when I have to act (say talk to a class) and my attention goes elsewhere the feelings of tightness and holding can impact on what is unfolding next – and then cause a domino effect of feelings and thoughts etc. I need lots of time- out to observe all this!
You don’t need to do anything about this – there is no “me” there that can hold onto the tightness or let it go. Just keep bringing awareness to the sensations and break them down into their constituent parts. In time the unpleasant sensations will pass. You can’t force them to go.
You asked if ‘in my body’ is an actual space – I don’t know! I can see that it is a collection of sensations and the inner ‘picture’ of ‘my body’ is a very different thing to say a photo of myself. I mean one part may signify largely e.g. a foot or an arm while the rest be mainly unnoticed for a while. I still consider my body a boundary – I know I can see afar and hear distant sounds and the sensations I have can move slightly further than my skin but even so .....
Yes, giving up the belief that experience is something that happens in the body is a hard one. Try this exercise. Sit in a chair and bring awareness to all the contact points your body has with the chair and the floor. Feel the sense of pressure in your feet, move up to the pressure in the backside and the back. Close your eyes and focus just on the raw experience – ignore the ‘inner picture’ that has constructed the experience as ‘my body sitting in a chair’. Can you feel where the body ends and floor/chair begins or is the experience itself seamless? Without using thought – before thought intervenes – what is the nature of the experience? Where is the experience taking place? What are its qualities? When thought tries to intervene, just drop it and return awareness to the raw experience. Report back what you find.
Can you say more about ‘emptiness is everything going on in consciousness’ – the words sort of thrill me! And I felt the reverberations through the night and today.
Form is only emptiness, emptiness only form. The Buddha wasn’t joking around here – just telling it like it is! The fact that you thrilled to this means that on some level you already know it’s true.
People see it far away. What a pity! They are like a man who, standing in water, complains of thirst -- Hakuin

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Re: requesting guidance

Postby Jack'n'theBox » Tue May 14, 2013 8:35 pm

BTW Rosy pretty soon the system will start a second page for this thread -- but when you log in it always takes you to page 1 -- so if it seems like I haven't replied one time, check that there isn't a second page started and just click on 'next' to go there.
People see it far away. What a pity! They are like a man who, standing in water, complains of thirst -- Hakuin

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Re: requesting guidance

Postby rosy » Wed May 15, 2013 7:26 pm

Thanks for the detail about page changes – I can get confused by these sort of things.
‘’other daily activities and see if you can find a ‘me’ behind them, controlling them’’
As I was putting away the cutlery I noticed that ‘me’ sort of rose up to take charge, as if it wouldn’t happen without my control. This did make me laugh – no wonder I get tired!
I notice that this impulse to be in control and run things features quite a lot – it’s like trying to drive with the handbrake on.
I did notice in meditation that the body/mind/world are all held in awareness and if I let go I can just sort of lie back in awareness and bask. This feels very nurturing and peaceful – but again I have to remember to do it – it’s almost like a little manoeuvre.
‘’As if reality will change because you think it ‘should’ ha ha ha.’’
Unfortunately I often do think reality should change – I have a recurrent set of themes on this – ‘my sister should be nice to me’, ‘my son should eat vegetables’ etc. Despite a lot of processing these persist...sadly...
‘’You don’t need to do anything about this – there is no me there that can hold onto the tightness or let it go.’’
I do work with mindfulness on this – just trying to observe and not react.
I tried your sitting exercise which was great – seamless is a good word for awareness moving and noticing details and tiny movements etc. It does feel as though there is blending between my body and the cushion, I couldn’t quite make out where one ended and the other began. Very interesting. (Some scientists recently reported that the backside does not actually come in contact with the chair at all – there is a layer of space between. Good old scientists.)
Thanks for the Heart Sutra. I did glimpse that there was a flow of life, inner and outer and that I could step out of the picture as it were and everything would be just fine....
I lost my first reply to you – lesson learned, did this one in word 1st.
Kind regards,
Rosy

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Re: requesting guidance

Postby Jack'n'theBox » Wed May 15, 2013 8:22 pm

I did notice in meditation that the body/mind/world are all held in awareness and if I let go I can just sort of lie back in awareness and bask. This feels very nurturing and peaceful – but again I have to remember to do it – it’s almost like a little manoeuvre.
What holds things in awareness, what lies back, what ‘remembers’ to do these things?
‘’As if reality will change because you think it ‘should’ ha ha ha.’’
Unfortunately I often do think reality should change – I have a recurrent set of themes on this – ‘my sister should be nice to me’, ‘my son should eat vegetables’ etc. Despite a lot of processing these persist...sadly...
Keep on noticing ‘should’, ‘could’, ‘what if’ etc. thoughts and let them go. Don’t pursue them because they distract from the reality of the moment. Reality is never going to fit in with the way the self thinks it ‘should’ be and that’s why we suffer.
‘’You don’t need to do anything about this – there is no me there that can hold onto the tightness or let it go.’’
I do work with mindfulness on this – just trying to observe and not react.
I tried your sitting exercise which was great – seamless is a good word for awareness moving and noticing details and tiny movements etc. It does feel as though there is blending between my body and the cushion, I couldn’t quite make out where one ended and the other began. Very interesting. (Some scientists recently reported that the backside does not actually come in contact with the chair at all – there is a layer of space between. Good old scientists.)
OK, good. Now extend the exercise – keep on doing the body sensation stage, then move on to the other senses, . . . look at smell, where is that sensation happening, try to stick with the pure sensation and notice how the mind kicks in AFTER the event by producing ‘selfing’ thoughts, e.g. ‘smell of incense in my nose’ – all this is imputed in thought and is not there in bare experience. Do it with taste, hearing, sight individually. Then, and this is the important part, try to keep all the various sensations that you say are happening in ‘your body’ in awareness simultaneously – keep on building up to this and do it for 10 minutes at a time – in a chair, on the bus, on the park bench. Keep with the raw experience and notice there is a gap between the experience and the ‘selfing’ thoughts that impose to claim the experience as ‘mine’. Don’t hold on to the selfing thoughts – just keep coming back to the raw experience – in the felt, just the felt, in the smelled, just the smelled, in the tasted, just the tasted, in the heard, just the heard, in the seen, just the seen.
Thanks for the Heart Sutra. I did glimpse that there was a flow of life, inner and outer and that I could step out of the picture as it were and everything would be just fine....
Who steps out Rosy? Do you believe that insight is somewhere else? It isn’t. It’s here, now, in the moment. There is nowhere to go and no-one to go anywhere. Just look and you will see this.
People see it far away. What a pity! They are like a man who, standing in water, complains of thirst -- Hakuin

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Re: requesting guidance

Postby Jack'n'theBox » Thu May 16, 2013 3:22 am

Hello Rosy here's the sutta I was paraphrasing in my reply above. Look and see if you can find "you" anywhere in direct sense experience and report back.

Bahiya sutta:
In the seen, there is only the seen,
in the heard, there is only the heard,
in the sensed, there is only the sensed,
in the cognized, there is only the cognized.
Thus you should see that
indeed there is no thing here;
this, Bahiya, is how you should train yourself.
Since, Bahiya, there is for you
in the seen, only the seen,
in the heard, only the heard,
in the sensed, only the sensed,
in the cognized, only the cognized,
and you see that there is no thing here,
you will therefore see that
indeed there is no thing there.
As you see that there is no thing there,
you will see that
you are therefore located neither in the world of this,
nor in the world of that,
nor in any place
betwixt the two.
This alone is the end of suffering.” (ud. 1.10)
People see it far away. What a pity! They are like a man who, standing in water, complains of thirst -- Hakuin

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Re: requesting guidance

Postby rosy » Thu May 16, 2013 6:31 pm

Yes, thanks for the Bahiya Suta - right on the spot! Just found it as I came to write to you and it was perfect!
Tried the exercise and then just observed where awareness was going. This felt inclusive – I was trying to exclude various thoughts and feelings before. I asked myself - ‘What is here now?’ – this is! Everything became like a little symphony of experience – even the mind-chatter.
I continued to ask myself through the day – ‘what is this happening?’ This worked for me where before ‘What am I?’ hasn’t. I continued to notice a flowing aliveness and not much intrusion of ‘me’ trying to control everything, I even flowed into a couple of fairly big decisions without encountering.....don’t know what to say exactly. But it feels good and warm.
What is happening here right now? - Foot against table, fingers pressing keys, bird sings, traffic rumbles, thoughts about what I will write next.....
Maybe trying to ‘get rid’ of thoughts and feelings is equivalent to getting rid of sights and sounds...pointless?
I’m seeing that it is all part of the same experiencing which is just flowing the way it does.

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Re: requesting guidance

Postby Jack'n'theBox » Thu May 16, 2013 8:15 pm

Tried the exercise and then just observed where awareness was going. This felt inclusive – I was trying to exclude various thoughts and feelings before. I asked myself - ‘What is here now?’ – this is! Everything became like a little symphony of experience – even the mind-chatter.
That’s good.
I continued to ask myself through the day – ‘what is this happening?’ This worked for me where before ‘What am I?’ hasn’t. I continued to notice a flowing aliveness and not much intrusion of ‘me’ trying to control everything, I even flowed into a couple of fairly big decisions without encountering.....don’t know what to say exactly. But it feels good and warm.
OK. Good. Just keep noticing the flow and asking yourself is there any “I” that is doing this or that it is happening to, or is it all just flow.
What is happening here right now? - Foot against table, fingers pressing keys, bird sings, traffic rumbles, thoughts about what I will write next.....
Maybe trying to ‘get rid’ of thoughts and feelings is equivalent to getting rid of sights and sounds...pointless?
I’m seeing that it is all part of the same experiencing which is just flowing the way it does.
Yes, there is no agent, no “I” that can get rid of thoughts – they come and they go.
Can you extend the direct experience exercise we discussed above to include thought? i.e. go through all the stages looking at the senses, then as the final stage include awareness of thought. Don’t try to control or get rid of thought. Just watch thoughts come and go. As you do this consider: Where do thoughts come from? Are they the product of a ‘thinker’ or do they just arise? Where do they go? What size or shape are they? What do they feel like? And can you discern a connection between thoughts?
As the final phase of this exercise try to hold all the sense sensations and the thoughts in awareness simultaneously – don’t follow the thoughts or get distracted by any one sensation, just try to bring awareness to the totality of experience and rest there for a while.
OK? And don’t treat this as a ‘meditation’ – this isn’t a ‘spiritual’ exercise. There is no difference between doing this and sitting on the toilet – all activities, sensations, thoughts and experience are equally empty. Look and see if this is true.
People see it far away. What a pity! They are like a man who, standing in water, complains of thirst -- Hakuin


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