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[pozablo]

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed!
My name is Pablo and I would be happy to guide you through.

If you’ve browsed any other threads in this Guiding area, you’ve probably noticed that we always begin with ground rules. Please look these over and, if you agree to all four, just confirm so in your Reply.

1. Read the Disclaimer at http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

2. To keep up the momentum, let’s both agree to try to post at least once a day.

3. . The inquiry we will be doing here is experiential rather than conceptual, and I won’t be “teaching” you anything. This will all go most rapidly if you can, for the time being, put aside previous concepts, philosophies, reading/listening to other teachers, or engaging in other practices. If you have some kind of essential meditation you like to practice, though, no problem with that.

4. I’ll be posing questions to you, and sometimes suggesting experiments you might try. There truly are no wrong answers, just be sure and try to respond A] with 100% honesty, and B] from your direct experience rather than concepts or beliefs you may have read/heard/considered or studied in the past. Note: Part B (Direct Experience) may take some practice :-)

Also, here are some suggestions:

1. There is a 'Subscribe topic' box in the blue pane at the bottom of this page - click here and you should get email notifications whenever there’s something new for you.

2. Most people find this site doesn’t provide enough time to compose a Reply. It’s possible to press Submit and find you’ve been logged out and have lost everything you wrote. Best to just write your reply elsewhere, then click the Quick Reply button at the bottom of this page and copy and paste your text into the Reply window that will open. Then you can click “Full Editor” and format your message.

3. Please learn to use the “quote” function in the Full Editor. Easy way is to highlight some text in the window, then click the colorful "quote" in this window. Then you can click Preview to see how it will look. You can do the same for bold, italics, even colors if you want to get really expressive.

If you agree to the 4 ground rules, just confirm each one and we can get started.

Cheers,
Pablo

[Matrix929]

Hi Pablo I agree to all the terms and would appreciate you guidance.

[pozablo]

I’m happy you are here!

A couple starter questions. Through our whole conversation, please take some time to really introspect before trying to formulate and answer. At the same time, let's do keep the conversation moving right along :)

1] What do you see as our goal here?

2] When you are “through”, what do you expect will be different from now? (Please be really complete on this.)

Cheers,
p.

[Matrix929]

Thank you for responding and taking the time to do this.

1] What do you see as our goal here?

Ever since my teenage years I have always felt that something was missing in life I have read book after book from meditation to positive thinking looking for this missing piece and never really found it until recently I came across the book "Gateless Gatecrashers" which also led me to this site and feel I'm ready to see the truth.

2] When you are “through”, what do you expect will be different from now? (Please be really complete on this.)

I'm thinking all that will change is my perspective and life will go on as it has been but with that change in perspective I expect to be in the flow of life instead of fighting it all the time for example I know I will still experience anger anxiety stress but once "through" the gate I could see it all for what it really is or that's it's just life happening and not necessarily happening to "me". Another way of saying it I guess would be not taking things so personally as there is no me.

Thanks

Mike

[pozablo]

Mike,

Your response to #2 is quite realistic, but I can tell you it will also be better than that!

Re #1, can you be more specific as to what you see as the goal here? Let’s make sure we’re absolutely on the same page.

Cheers,
p.

[Matrix929]

Mike,

Your response to #2 is quite realistic, but I can tell you it will also be better than that!

Re #1, can you be more specific as to what you see as the goal here? Let’s make sure we’re absolutely on the same page.

Cheers,
p.

Specifically I want to go from knowing there is no me to seeing it. I have read the book and posts here on the forums and can't seem to step "through" I'm hoping with some personal guidance I can.

Thanks

Mike

[pozablo]

Exactly…and you are closer than the thoughts in your head might indicate.

Clearly there is a Mike; you probably have a driver’s license or other document with his picture to prove it. Our goal is for you to find out, through direct experience, whether or not there is a Mike that is thinking, experiencing, deciding, “doing” anything at all.

I want to go from knowing there is no me to seeing it...... I'm hoping with some personal guidance I can.

So for now, just let attention focus on the direct experience of “knowing there is no me”. Is there someone who is knowing? Or…….?

Hoping is happening. Is there a Mike that is hoping? Does this Mike exist in direct experience?
For now, don’t try to verbalize, explain, or formulate an answer. Just observe what is going on inside. Thinking will be happening, too. Can you find the Mike that is doing the thinking?

Take all the time you need, then go ahead and reply when so moved.

Enjoy,
p.

[Matrix929]

Exactly…and you are closer than the thoughts in your head might indicate.

Clearly there is a Mike; you probably have a driver’s license or other document with his picture to prove it. Our goal is for you to find out, through direct experience, whether or not there is a Mike that is thinking, experiencing, deciding, “doing” anything at all.

I want to go from knowing there is no me to seeing it...... I'm hoping with some personal guidance I can.

So for now, just let attention focus on the direct experience of “knowing there is no me”. Is there someone who is knowing? Or…….?

Hoping is happening. Is there a Mike that is hoping? Does this Mike exist in direct experience?
For now, don’t try to verbalize, explain, or formulate an answer. Just observe what is going on inside. Thinking will be happening, too. Can you find the Mike that is doing the thinking?

Take all the time you need, then go ahead and reply when so moved.

Enjoy,
p.

Ok today I began focusing on the direct experience of no me and if mike actually exists and I can't find any evidence that he does. I sometimes notice how how the mind labels things as I go through the day but the mind brings back I am mike many times throughout the day I will continue to do this tomorrow.

[pozablo]

focusing on the direct experience of no me

what is the direct experience of “no me”?
can you hear no hands clapping?
what do you hear if no hands are clapping?

Observe first, verbalize afterward.

the mind brings back I am mike many times throughout the day

yep. How does that feel/seem? Can you describe this further?

Thanks for the update.
You’re exactly on the right track!!!!!!!!
p.

[Matrix929]

what is the direct experience of “no me”?

That would be noticing life happen noticing how the mind labels objects, feelings, and how it connects everything to "I" which only exists through the labeling of the mind.

the mind brings back I am mike many times throughout the day
yep. How does that feel/seem? Can you describe this further?

It's quite frustrating at times. It feels as though im close at times and then so far away at other times from seeing it. When looking for who is thinking these thoughts a thought immediately arises saying "I am of course" then I try to look what's really behind that thought and there's nothing. The thoughts arise from nothing.

Thank you Pablo for the support so far it's been very helpful.

[pozablo]

a thought immediately arises saying "I am of course"

:)
what makes that thought any different from any other thought?

[Matrix929]

a thought immediately arises saying "I am of course"

:)
what makes that thought any different from any other thought?

The thought was just a label placed to reinforce the illusion of "i" there is no difference between that thought and any other.

[pozablo]

The thought was just a label placed to reinforce the illusion

So something placed a label for the purpose of reinforcing an illusion?
Can you find that something?
If you can’t find that something in your direct experience, is there a sense of where or what (or whether) it might exist?

It's quite frustrating at times.

Are you saying that some thoughts are accompanied by feelings of frustration?
Investigate them closely! What makes those thoughts any different from any other thoughts?

You’re good, even if it feels tough right now :-)
Persevere!

[pozablo]

The thoughts arise from nothing

Mike, it may not feel like it, but you are So Close.

the mind brings back I am mike many times throughout the day

And from where does this arise?


Please check-in with an update, and if I can't get back online tonite will respond tomorrow morning (gmt-5) at the latest.

Arising from nowhere,
p.

[Matrix929]

The thoughts arise from nothing

Mike, it may not feel like it, but you are So Close.

the mind brings back I am mike many times throughout the day

And from where does this arise?


Please check-in with an update, and if I can't get back online tonite will respond tomorrow morning (gmt-5) at the latest.

Arising from nowhere,
p.

It arises from nowhere thoughts and emotions are just happening they show up without any intention on my part they come and go continuously throughout the day. There are moments that things seem clear and moments the "I" seems to take over for a while. Will continue not gonna give up.

Thanks

Mike