Ready for a guide

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Omkaro
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Ready for a guide

Postby Omkaro » Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:55 am

Hi My name is Omkaro, my friends call me Om for short. (Om is the name I was given by my former spiritual master, Osho, over 30 years ago!) I can go by either now. So, I started the search over 30 years ago…. many masters, meditations, etc. etc…. many a satsang with advaita teachers, and many mini-awakening experiences. Yet any "permanent" realization basically eludes me, and a sense of a separate me who suffers persists. Most of my suffering is centered around wanting my physical condition to be different (I have chronic fatigue and digestive issues, which I have not been able to overcome in a long long time), and I a generally carry the story that its hard to be happy when you feel like shit physically. I know thats not true coz Ive experienced great states of inner joy despite feeling bad in my body. Anyway, lately I've also noticed I pick up the story of suffering by an obsession of the opposite sex, and how that obsession remains largely unfulfilled!!!

So now would be a great time for final release from this story of my poor me!

Ready to start.

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kvotski
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Re: Ready for a guide

Postby kvotski » Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:48 pm

Hello OM,

I would be happy to guide you. My name is Sunil.

There are a few ground rules, please respond to confirm:
1. You agree to post at least once a day.
2. In general, the guide will ask the questions for you to respond to
3. Responses require your utmost honesty
4. Responses are best from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
5. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
6. Please learn to use the quote function; instructions are located in the link below this line: http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

I too am a fan of osho.

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Omkaro
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Re: Ready for a guide

Postby Omkaro » Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:36 pm

Hi Sunil

Great. Thanx. Yes, confirming agreement to all the ground rules. Except not quite sure I understand the quote function, but I'm sure it'll become obvious.

Awaiting first question....

Om

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kvotski
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Re: Ready for a guide

Postby kvotski » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:44 pm

Great OM,

Let's start by first answering this;

"What are your expectations for liberation? How will this feel? How will this change you?"

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Omkaro
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Re: Ready for a guide

Postby Omkaro » Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:16 am

Ok. Well, to be really honest, I do have quite big expectations of awakening. I don't like this idea that Ive heard a lot that it can be so subtle u can hardly know it has happened! I want to really know about it, otherwise whats the point? I expect it and want it to be and feel like a MAJOR and PERMANENT shift …...

I imagine it will be like a constant presence/feeling of a deep peace and absence of restlessness , i usually feel an inner restlessness like I'm not really happy and at peace or feeling fulfilled right here now in this place, I'm always looking ahead to the next place. So i imagine it feeling like a deep feeling of peace and at-rest-ness, like completely content here now wherever I am, and also it should feel like total freedom, and what would freedom feel like ?well everything that is is ok with me. and everything that will be is gonna be ok with me.

It would feel like a total relief from all suffering, and an end to endless clinging to unfulfilled desires. I will not want anything, because i will be content with what is.

Also there'd be an absence of anxiety, or at least a feeling like those negative feelings totally belong to someone else and have nothing to do with me.

I would like to have a much quieter mind, the monkey mind wouldn't be so active and in fact all thoughts would feel as if they belong to someone else, dont have anything to do with me, so I would take any real notice of them (unless I needed to).

I don't expect any major personality changes except that i'll no longer be unconfident, and no longer depressed. I do hope that I'll have more energy.

Thats what comes to me now, and I will add any more thoughts about it if they arise before your reply!

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kvotski
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Re: Ready for a guide

Postby kvotski » Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:26 pm

Thank you, OM. Great expectations. We will come back and visit them later. By all means list more if you wish.

For now, I would like you to focus on " you". Can you find this you in direct experience? By direct experience or DE we refer to solid tactile sensory experience. Typing on the keyboard, listening to the birds, the radio, smell of a flower and so on are direct experiences, not imagination nor dreams or thoughts. Find you through direct experience. Look deep and hard. Meditate, go quiet, spend time and give me all you find.

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Omkaro
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Re: Ready for a guide

Postby Omkaro » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:43 am

Well I've been having a very interesting day today. I think there is a little shift maybe happening, ……. It started this morning with a meditation looking in to see if I could experience an I, as you suggested…(by the way I liked how you suggested to try and DE the I, rather than just try to "find" the I.... that helped!)..anyhow, after awhile i could see fairly clearly that this I is really a conglomeration of dense layers of thoughts coupled together with bodily sensations and emotions, and these thoughts, which 'own' the sensations, create a sense of I.
…. after awhile all I could find when I looked in is empty space….and whats really cool is that all day I've witnessed my usual thoughts and emotions but with a sense that all these thoughts and emotions just are happening but not happening to a me, which takes a lot of the 'charge' out of them!
…and periodically when I when I go in to look in to if I can find it, all I find is empty space which is experiencing sensations , emotions, and thoughts!
perhaps there is a little unravelling of the story of me beginning to happen?

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kvotski
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Re: Ready for a guide

Postby kvotski » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:25 pm

Hello OM,

Easy as pie. I would like you to use this script you have developed all the time you can. Challenge whenever a I, me an my thought comes. And report to me once a day, particularly whenever doubt arises. We may already be done but I want to be sure. Report everything....feelings, sadness, fear anything that arises.

Best wishes.

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Omkaro
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Re: Ready for a guide

Postby Omkaro » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:36 am

Hi Sunil
thanks so much.

Day 2: morning: So far so good! I feel like there is no more suffering. And also there is expansion, joy, excitement (and yes I know these feelings are just temporary states and I'm not identifying it as "I am joyful etc" and I know they are are also passing states just happening to no-one.), not expecting them to remain, and not even too attached to them remaining (OK we'll see if that holds up when they're gone!!!)

there is the occaisional doubt thought and a thought there that I hope the mind/identification-me story doesn't come back somehow and grab a hold!!! but hopefully my recognition was strong enough that that won't happen?!

afternoon: been very tired today (common for me), but its all ok....still no suffering happening, coming down a from the "high".. few thoughts of resistance but no significant emotional attachment. a vague sense of "me" but when I look in, all there is is empty space experiencing everything. aware that all is just happening... that there is nothing I need do (or can do for that matter)... that is a sense of relief and inner relaxation

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kvotski
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Re: Ready for a guide

Postby kvotski » Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:44 pm

Hi Sunil
thanks so much.

Day 2: morning: So far so good! I feel like there is no more suffering. And also there is expansion, joy, excitement (and yes I know these feelings are just temporary states and I'm not identifying it as "I am joyful etc" and I know they are are also passing states just happening to no-one.), not expecting them to remain, and not even too attached to them remaining (OK we'll see if that holds up when they're gone!!!)

there is the occaisional doubt thought and a thought there that I hope the mind/identification-me story doesn't come back somehow and grab a hold!!! but hopefully my recognition was strong enough that that won't happen?!

afternoon: been very tired today (common for me), but its all ok....still no suffering happening, coming down a from the "high".. few thoughts of resistance but no significant emotional attachment. a vague sense of "me" but when I look in, all there is is empty space experiencing everything. aware that all is just happening... that there is nothing I need do (or can do for that matter)... that is a sense of relief and inner relaxation
Wonderful, OM.

We wouldn't make it that easy though. Self has been in business for decades and won't give up that easy. It usually lurks as an idea.

So, dig to find if there is an I anywhere, even reporting there is no suffering. Is there no suffering or is there no one suffering? She can still break your heart but will there be anyone shedding tears?

Let's take it a little wider. Watch your hands doing its daily stuff and find out whose hands are they? Check your breathing. Is there you inhaling? Sights, sounds, smell. Are they just happening or is there a little point inside you doing it? Or, even wider. Is there may be a God working through you doing all this?

Give it a thorough look, OM.

Great progress....

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Omkaro
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Re: Ready for a guide

Postby Omkaro » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:53 am


Wonderful, OM.

We wouldn't make it that easy though. Self has been in business for decades and won't give up that easy. It usually lurks as an idea.

So, dig to find if there is an I anywhere, even reporting there is no suffering. Is there no suffering or is there no one suffering? She can still break your heart but will there be anyone shedding tears?

Let's take it a little wider. Watch your hands doing its daily stuff and find out whose hands are they? Check your breathing. Is there you inhaling? Sights, sounds, smell. Are they just happening or is there a little point inside you doing it? Or, even wider. Is there may be a God working through you doing all this?

Give it a thorough look, OM.

Great progress....
Hey Sunil

thanks for staying with me....

yes there is no one suffering. no one doing anything, its all just happening. Emotions still happening, upsetness happening, but its not me.

Hmmm interesting question about is there a God working thru me? I would say no, coz that would imply a me for God to work through.its just all happening somehow, i dunno how dont really care how!

I had a truly magical day today:

biggest noticeable change so far:

I wake up happy! I always used to hate waking up in the morning, it was as soon as i woke up I had an unhappy feeling/stressful thoughts coupled with anxiety. now I understand: I used to wake up in separation, wake up with the I thought.
also, I wake up now and feel the desire to stretch and exercise!!!!!!!!! wow!
but I still don't like having to make up the bed! but hey that doesn't matter! why? coz there is no one making up the bed, only some old thoughts about how its not so much fun having to make up the bed, which are just thoughts coming from who knows where disappearing into who knows where, and have nothing to do with me.

I notice upsets still happen but they dont stick around for very long like they used to!

Before, it was hard to go in and rest and sink into yummy silence coz of my restless mind , yes when i sat to meditate…..if I could stick it out thru the restlessness I could maybe settle in deep, but now it seems all I gotta do is close my eyes ,go in and immediately yum space.

feeling very amused at witnessing my strange personality.

My mind sometimes crammed full of thoughts, as usual... its ok tho, although one thought is a preference that there would be a lot less thoughts. is there someone (God/universe) that I can ask for less thoughts???

Had some great confirmation from my awakened friends that I am currently visiting in Australia.

I keep having thoughts of wanting to share this with everyone, my friends, community, do meetings, but wondering a) if I'm any near qualified, and b) is this the ego, the I wanting to be important in the community?, what is my motivation to share?

Also before, I virtually never approached a young attractive pretty girl I noticed somewhere like in a cafe, way too shy/scared etc. but today there was a heart beating fast , and butterflies were butter flying, while I observed myself going over to talk to her , and she was responsive and a beautiful sweet new connection was made! wow!

Scared to talk to friends, that that will diminish my realization if they have judgements! ?

still hoping this doesnt end!!!

felt gratitude today…..I hardly ever feel gratitude. dunno what it was for exactly, but big gratitude, maybe for finding this measure of freedom....or for existence to give me this gift of new sight. OMG I love gratitude!

OM

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kvotski
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Re: Ready for a guide

Postby kvotski » Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:14 pm

Hello OM,

Glad your newfound freedom at least got you a pretty date.

Resist the temptation to teach until you are through. That won't be long. You can then join our guide community if you like.

For now, I need some more. Spend some time on your decision process and choices. Is there a you making a choice? Example, what process is involved when you decide to drink tea or coffee? Pick up a blue pen vs. red? Or make the bed or not? Is this all just happening or is there you doing it?

You skipped over my hand experiment. Try this, close your eyes, brush your fingers through your hair, give the head a little treat. Now feel. Is it hair or some strings? What makes this hair? Surface of your scalp, is it a head or a smooth surface, labelled by the mind based on prior conditioning. Can you find anything that is not labelled based on some prior training of the mind?

Peace.

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kvotski
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Re: Ready for a guide

Postby kvotski » Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:18 pm

And...

How can the realization that there is no Santa suddenly be undone?

Talk to friends and find ones who don't believe you. And please report things that create serious doubts. We want absolute certainty here...

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Omkaro
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Re: Ready for a guide

Postby Omkaro » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:50 am

So,
My hair,(without prior memory), is just strings , the scalp is an unknown surface….actually I wonder now: am I actually seeing anything or only my memory and label of it? How can I know ? How can I know if Im seeing something as it is?

who made the hair I have no idea

Choice has always been a big thing for me….every time "i" was faced with a choice, I went to anxiety coz I didn't know if i was gonna make the wrong choice. and then after the choice I often went into awhile long regret story for a long time that I had made a "mistake"
I see that choices are just made, an impulse to go right or left somehow comes in (sometimes) at the last moment to go R or L and the action just happens.



so of course today this old story came up, a choice was made today to go to breakfast with some people, and while I was sitting there I remembered about somewhere else that I had wanted to be, but had forgotten about, so my mind said, o you made a mistake, and that triggered uncomfortable emotions , but I could see quite clearly how the "me" was being reborn with that favorite story (nightmare!)….it took about 5 minutes to drop away (better than the usual hour o today old story of mistake story didn't stick too long


Good idea to talk about this to disbelieving friends….I thought I need support of supportive friends, but i guess how good is this realization unless it can stand the test of the negative mind, and perhaps even ridicule! I can't say honestly I'm looking forward to these tests but I do see the value.

But just starting to talk to some friends almost immediately makes me start doubting my realization.....

and...I notice these doubts are just thoughts.

Talking to friends, I see how deep into identification with their story they are. Like I always was.

yes I know I'm not ready to teach/share, just still questioning my motives to want to.

Some doubt comes in this evening. There is a lurking me who has replaced the old story of suffering with a new story of awakening!!!!

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kvotski
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Re: Ready for a guide

Postby kvotski » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:15 pm

So,
My hair,(without prior memory), is just strings , the scalp is an unknown surface….actually I wonder now: am I actually seeing anything or only my memory and label of it? How can I know ? How can I know if Im seeing something as it is?

so of course today this old story came up, a choice was made today to go to breakfast with some people, and while I was sitting there I remembered about somewhere else that I had wanted to be, but had forgotten about, so my mind said, o you made a mistake, and that triggered uncomfortable emotions , but I could see quite clearly how the "me" was being reborn with that favorite story (nightmare!)….it took about 5 minutes to drop away (better than the usual hour o today old story of mistake story didn't stick too long


But just starting to talk to some friends almost immediately makes me start doubting my realization.....

and...I notice these doubts are just thoughts.

Some doubt comes in this evening. There is a lurking me who has replaced the old story of suffering with a new story of awakening!!!!
Liked your analysis.

I agree, there are just labels, almost everything. Only reason I say almost is that there is an I reporting this to you, who knows squat...

Yes, it will be very challenging to defend your "new belief" that you are free. We must test that there is no you.

Me will lurk forever until we get to Buddhahood if there is such a thing. Even Jesus said at the last moment "why have you forsaken me, father" or something like that once translated from Hebrew or ancient Latin, who knows.

I want you to now focus on experience. Is there a you experiencing or is it also just happening? Is there an experiencer? If yes, where is it? Can you put some colour on this character, entity, idea or thought?

Doubts and challenges, bring them out, OM...


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