Looking to have dialogue with a guide

[Hesed]

I practice meditation fairly cosistently. I see my practice both in terms of opening rather than closing my heart to experience as well as trying to let go of assumptions about how things are. I also se these as being related. Would like help withbthis process.

[Xain]

Welcome to the Forum Hesed

As a guide, my responsibility is to guide you beyond the body/mind association so that you see that there is no 'self', no 'me' anywhere. Is this what is being sought?

Allowing your heart to open to experience and letting go of assumptions is a very positive start in this area.
You ask 'I would like help with this process' - What exactly do require guidance with?

Xain ♥

[Hesed]

Hi Xain, thanks for responding.

Yes I would like to see directly and consistently the illusioury nature of self and free myself of the fears, limitations that I believe clinging to self view causes.

I am not sure specifically what guidance I need. I think that perhaps being in dialogue itself would be helpful. A few times I have had the experience of being closed in, isolated. This has been painful and intense. Somehow I managed to let go of something and this feelng has immediately changed to one of more ease, spaciousness and spontaneous fellings of love. On a couple of occasions this was due to meditation on nothing being me or mine, a couple of times outwith meditation. I would like to take this further and see through any idea of me or mine permenantly.

[Xain]

Good to hear from you again, Hesed.

. . . free myself of the fears, limitations that I believe clinging to self view causes

Initially, it may be useful not to have too many expectations as to what will happen after liberation, as this may hamper the process itself. Everything happens at the perfect time.

I have mentioned Guidance rather than Teaching, as nothing is being taught here. There is simply guidance in the form of questioning to remind you of what you already know, and discover what you already are.

A few times I have had the experience of being closed in, isolated. This has been painful and intense.

I understand. Most often we view these times as negative and unwanted, but the feelings of 'fear' that you experience are there to protect you.

Xain ♥

[Xain]

Can I ask if you have read many posts on here from others? Followed any of the processes mentioned?

Please ensure you read this guide:
http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... f=16&t=221

In particular, these points are very important:

1. Write from experience, not speculation. It is impossible to understate the importance of this; in order for any Direct Pointing session to be successful, it is your responsibility to examine your experience as it is, instead of resorting to speculation and theory-forming. The only way to get to the Gate and beyond is by directly looking at your actual experience of reality.

2. Be 100% honest. It is very easy to deceive oneself, especially when it comes to something as subtle as the intimacy of your direct experience. Strive to be completely honest and transparent as to what is actually happening in your experience, this will make the process as smooth as possible.

3. Post regularly. We've found that it is important to create a proper momentum in order to successfully carry out this investigation. What's needed is focus and intensity. The only way to enable these is to strive to post at least once a day.

[Hesed]

Hi, I take your point about not letting expectations get in the way. I have read the guidlines and accept the 3 points as necessary and my intention is to follow these guidlines as best I can.

I have browsed a few posts just to see how the site works but not extensively. I am not quite sure what you mean by the "processes mentioned.". H

[Xain]

It's Ok - 'Processes mentioned' was referring to the processes that other guides have gone through with their 'clients' in order to seek liberation - I was wondering if you had been following those at all, although it isn't that important.

The whole pointing process is really just a chat between two people - There is no teacher/pupil type relationship.
It's not a test :-) There are no right or wrong answers. All that is requested is for your total honesty, and to answer the questions from your direct experience - Not from thinking, training, education or mind etc
I have nothing to teach you. If you ask questions, that is fine but the whole process is for you to answer the questions and find the truth for yourself, so most of the traffic will be me asking and you answering.

Let's get underway.

What expectations (if any) do you have for liberation? How will this feel? How do you think this will affect you?

[Hesed]

I imagine that I would have more of a capacity to respond with love. This is based on the experiences I have had, when I have somehow let go and become more receptive to experience. Love seems the best word to describe this. What difference it would make? I think that seeing through self would allow me to be more fully myself, paradoxical though that may seem. That life could be more fully lived. Again this has to some extent been my experience. That the background noise of anxiety can fall away... That things are ordinary but carry no more weight than props in a play and there is a corresponding lightness to experience.

[Xain]

Hi again Hesed

You expectations seems quite realistic.

I think that seeing through self would allow me to be more fully myself, paradoxical though that may seem.

I smile at that :-) Yes, you realise that you already 'yourself' and recognise the paradox of seeking 'yourself'
As mentioned, for the moment put all expectations aside.

Talking away from the subject for a moment, feel free to use the 'quote' function as I did above to make the conversation easier to follow if needed. There is a guide to it's use here:
http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

Ok, let's proceed on.

'This 'I' that you refer to as being you does not exist. Right now at this moment, there is no 'you'
There never was. There never will be.'
What comes up when considering this? What do you feel?

Xain ♥

[Hesed]

'This 'I' that you refer to as being you does not exist. Right now at this moment, there is no 'you'
There never was. There never will be.'
What comes up when considering this? What do you feel?

I am drawn to memories, particularly of feelings of isolation, painful memories that seem to contradict this.

[Xain]

As mentioned previously, painful emotions are there to protect us from harm. They are a very common occurrence (possible THE most common occurence at this stage). They should not be looked at negatively, but welcomed (if possible). Seen for what they are or what they may be protecting us from.

I am drawn to memories, particularly of feelings of isolation, painful memories that seem to contradict this.

What is the specific feeling? What could this pain or fear be protecting do you think?

Xain ♥

[Hesed]

What is the specific feeling? What could this pain or fear be protecting do you think?

The rawest sense of fear I have encountered, was a fear of annihilation. On thinking about what this fear might be protecting, what I was afraid of losing, on the one hand I felt afraid that I would no longer be there, while at the same time there seemed to be nothing to lose but my fear, which was self perpetuating.

[Hesed]

As mentioned previously, painful emotions are there to protect us from harm.

Hi Xain, I'm not sure if I completely understand what you mean here. H

[Xain]

The rawest sense of fear I have encountered, was a fear of annihilation. On thinking about what this fear might be protecting, what I was afraid of losing, on the one hand I felt afraid that I would no longer be there, while at the same time there seemed to be nothing to lose but my fear, which was self perpetuating.

Yes! Exactly - A self-perpetuating fear which has no real basis.
You have already mentioned the 'paradox' - You are already what you seek - Perhaps ask yourself exactly what be annihilated?

As mentioned previously, painful emotions are there to protect us from harm.

Hi Xain, I'm not sure if I completely understand what you mean here. H

Well there are perhaps two types of fear. Necessary fear that is there to assist us, and un-necessary fear that does not assist us. For example, when we are afraid of something that cannot actually harm us – like spiders – or worrying about the future then that fear is unnecessary, for it serves only to make us unhappy and paralyse our will. On the other hand, when someone feels fear from seeing a dangerous animal running towards them or someone threatening to hurt them, this is a healthy fear because the danger is real.
Either way, the fear is there to attempt to protect us from something that we THINK may harm us.
It is a positive thing - Welcome it - It is doing it's job to try to protect you.
But perhaps as you have discovered this fear you feel isn't protecting anything at all?

Xain ♥

[Hesed]

Perhaps ask yourself exactly what be annihilated?

Have kept coming back to this question throughout the day but haven't really come up with an answer. It has generated quite a lot of thoughts and further questions, what, where... I do seem to have the notion that I am in here i.e. in my body, trying to relate to and understand a world out there but I realise I am not sure of where the boundaries are between what I think of as me and what isn't... I found started to study my reflection in the mirror, even asking whomare you, then imagining that reflection asking 'me' the same question but I still don't really have an answer.

I am aware of myself doing things,mseeing colours, feeling responses. I have seen that when someone diesntherenisna change, they are no longer there but I couldn't say where they have gone, or even what they were when alive. So feel a bit stuck with this.