Polite request for guidance.

[DanielDempsey]

Hi Guys,

So, i'm a 27 year old male, I got turned on to this site from a post on the Dharma Overground forum. About 100 pages into Gateless Gatecrashers...seems very interesting.

As for my background. Well, I consider myself to be an experienced user of psychedelics. I've had what, while experiencing them, i've thought to be profound insights, but they have been forgotten with time. Never really had any strong sense of ego dissolution. I am somewhat well read in matters relating to consciousness; some popular science, Buddhism, R.A.W, general semantics, western mystery tradition etc. In the past I was more attracted to all of this because the prospect of experiencing altered states of consciousness, the Siddhis etc. Now I feel its time to really dig down and do some work to try to gain some insight into the nature of reality. Haven't really done much insight work in the past

I think that I have a very flexible view of the 'I'. I also like to think that I am mostly free of dogmatic fixed ideas and have more or less internalised the concept of the self as a verb as opposed to a noun. I suppose that I have conceptualised this on an intellectual level rather than understood it on a deep 'knowing' level though.

My practice at the moment basically consists of Anapanasati concentration meditation, Ashtanga Yoga and brainwave entrainment.

I would be very grateful if anybody would be so kind as to provide me with guidance. Thank you very much.

[Jorge786]

Hello Daniel

Thanks for sharing your "searching", states of mind are temporary and not an end by itself, here we looking for a "realization" of the illusion of "I", is good have only few ideas about it... hmm... nothing is better ;)

I will be your guide if you want

There is a few commitments:
maintaining contact at least once a day, and
leave any spiritual practice and readings for the moment, meditation are fine

Explanation of what we do here, a disclaimer, also a video to watch are at the home page (http://www.liberationunleashed.com/), if you have not seen yet.

This is a process in which I ask, and you consider what direct experience shows, in all honesty with oneself.

Please tell me what do you expect to get from this conversation, what do you think about this

Best wishes
Jorge

[DanielDempsey]

Hi Jorge,

Thank you for your offer. I would love to have you as my guide.

I can certainly commit to maintaining contact once per day. As for leaving spiritual practice and readings behind for the moment; I am currently reading a couple of books; A Path with a Heart and Buddha's Brain. I'm not sure if you would consider these 'spiritual' books or not but all the same, I will abandon them for the time being if you wish.

Would it be ok to continue with Gateless Gatecrashers?

I have read the disclaimer and watched the video. I agree and accept. I will do my best to maintain complete honesty with you and with myself.

What do I expect?
Hmm…I suppose to gain some startling new insight in to the nature of reality. To understand it on an experiential level rather than conceptualize it on an intellectual level. I suppose to radically change my world view and my concept of self and reality.

Anyway, thank you for your offer.
Hope to hear back from you soon.

[DanielDempsey]

OK so I've read a little further into 'Gateless Gatecrashers' and I think it answered one of the questions in my previous post. No 'spiritual' or metaphysically speculative books. This would include the books that I previously mentioned. Understood. I want to commit myself to this.

[Jorge786]

Ok, thanks for your posts, yes, is better to leave any related readings for the moment.

lets begin...

I suppose to gain some startling new insight in to the nature of reality.

is the reality distinct from what you see?

radically change my world view and my concept of self and reality.

what is wrong with your world view?,
is that other point of view about the world better than the current?

what is your concept of self?, please explain in detail


Best regards
Jorge

[DanielDempsey]

[quote]is the reality distinct from what you see?/quote]
Well…no, I guess it isn't. The only reality that I can know is one perceived by my senses.

[quote]what is wrong with your world view?,
is that other point of view about the world better than the current?/quote]
I don't think that there is anything massively wrong with my world view. But from what I've read, a world view that doesn't contain an 'I' is more 'real' and less illusory. According to you guys and the book 'Gateless Gatecrashers' it seems to be beneficial to have a world view that doesn't include the concept of an 'I'. I also think that since as far back as I can remember i've identified with an 'I' a 'me', to exist and yet not to be tied to this concept would be interesting, if only for the novelty factor.

[quote]what is your concept of self?, please explain in detail
/quote]The one experiencing all of this. The one perceiving all of this. The hands typing. Hearing. The eyes looking. My body. The self includes my body but I sense it most in my head. My thoughts. The way that I conceptualize and approach ideas. Judging. Even as I write the one judging what I have written. The sense of consciousness. My memories. Attachments to people I love.

[DanielDempsey]

Sorry, looks like I messed up the Quote function a little.

[Jorge786]

Sorry, looks like I messed up the Quote function a little.

jjejeje, don't worry, you also can select the text in the msg you want to quote and click in the "Quote" button (Right top at msg quoted)
thanks for your answers

The one experiencing all of this. The one perceiving all of this

really needed a self to experiencing something?
can the experiencing simply happen without a center?

[DanielDempsey]

[/quote]
really needed a self to experiencing something?
can the experiencing simply happen without a center?[/quote]

I can think of experiencing simply happening, but I still feel a sense of self. I think that I can intellectually grasp the concept, but I still feel that there is a me. I still feel like a separate entity experiencing this.

[Jorge786]

Hi Daniel

Go inside the feeling of self, embrace the feeling, look at carefully, trying to find which is the feeling to that is clinging.

"Dissect it, take it apart, deconstruct it
what is the self made off?
what keeps it together and operational?"

a hug
Jorge

[DanielDempsey]

Go inside the feeling of self, embrace the feeling, look at carefully, trying to find which is the feeling to that is clinging.

The feeling mostly seems to be the internal dialogue in my mind localized in this body. It seems more like a thought rather than a feeling.

"Dissect it, take it apart, deconstruct it
what is the self made off?
what keeps it together and operational?

The feeling of Self clings to the current thought…the thought of a self keeps the self operational. But…they are just thoughts. They continually change. I can't really see a self there. I can only see a self if I try to think up one. Thats what keeps it together and operational right? Constantly re-inventing this self in each thought? But its a compulsive habit to continually posit the self there behind each thought. It takes no effort to think up the self because I do it compulsively.

When I follow this I start to feel slightly detached from the body. I will think about it some more tomorrow. Im going to get some sleep now.

Woohoo, I finally have the quote function figured out.

Thanks for your time Jorge.

[Jorge786]

from a thought arise a feeling, from a feeling arise a thought, and the cycle continues mechanically

But…they are just thoughts

!

go ahead

[DanielDempsey]

Yes…I look for the self and it is nowhere to be found. Like you said, just thoughts arising from feelings and feelings arising from thoughts.

But then what is that which observes the thought? I create a 'self' to observe the first thought but really it is just another thought. Then another thought to observe this that I label 'self'. I was going to use the metaphor of it being like a hall of mirrors but really it isn't. This is a game that I invent as an excuse for not looking at the obvious. A thought comes…the thought goes….the next thought comes….it goes. They are just thoughts and I can't find the self in them.
I imagine that the specter of self sort hangs behind each thought. But it doesn't. It is part of each thought. Its like a compulsive habit that comes built into each thought but when I look closely there is nothing there.

So…if I carefully observe experience. I think that I can see it…or rather not see it. No, rather I catch glimpses of it. I feel a slight euphoric feeling when I do pay attention and catch glimpse. Similar to the feeling of having fully latched onto the breath in the nostrils during concentration meditation.

I still feel that I can't quite grasp it though. I feel that to even catch a glimpse I have to constantly exert effort. Concentration. Watching the thoughts.

Am I on the right track or completely missing the mark?

[DanielDempsey]

I also feel doubt. Like..."am I only imagining that I am catching glimpses,' pretending because this is what I subconsciously believe is supposed to happen. Like this forum acts as a placebo. But...when I look at these thoughts, these are only thoughts too. Arising and passing.

[DanielDempsey]

I was sitting with my cat earlier. It seems that the cat doesn't have a sense of 'I' of 'self' it just is. It lives. Life just happens. For the cat life just happens, there is no 'I'.

This personality is just conditioned thoughts. The 'I' doesnt exist but I lazily assume that each thought contains the 'I'. Thoughts arise from conditioning. From the previous thought.
Then does this thought remember the previous one? No but it leaves a trace. One thought conditions the next. It plants the seed of the next.