requesting an available guide to help me in this process

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arjayde
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requesting an available guide to help me in this process

Postby arjayde » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:03 pm

thanks in advance to whomever can help me with this "seeing" process. my wife says i'm somewhat of a dinosaur when it comes to computers. i've never been on a forum, or chat, or face book. i don't own a cell phone and don't text. in addition, the most i write is to-do and grocery lists. so please have patience with this limitation.that i'm here indicates my desire to proceed in this adventure. i agree to the agreements.the only thing that may slow me down is the technique for quote, send, save, etc. .... and fear. thanks again for the good works being performed here, and a great demonstration of love in action.

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ray
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Re: requesting an available guide to help me in this process

Postby ray » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:26 pm

Hi Arjade,
Pleased to meet you. Things are somewhat busy here at the moment, hence the delay.
I will be happy to be your guide. Thanks for reading and agreeing to our disclaimer etc.

A couple more things to note. Try to copy your post before posting. If the interface times out you can be silently logged out and lose what you've written.. Copy and paste by highlighting the text, right click, left click on "copy". Paste by right click, then left click on "paste"

The easy way to use the quote function... Highlight some text in this window, then click the colourfull "quote" in this window. Try it now!


Is there a first name I can address you by? I'm Ray, 56 years old living near London, UK.

If you like you can share some of the back story and what brought you here.
What are your expectations for this inquiry. How will this feel. How do you think it will change you?

Ray.

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arjayde
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Re: requesting an available guide to help me in this process

Postby arjayde » Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:46 pm

Hi ray. Thanks so much for responding. My name is robert. I just spent so! much time typing and somehow lost it all into the electron abyss. A great big ARGGG! My wife will be home later this evening. Perhaps she can try to retrieve the data i somehow lost. If not I'll try again. Right now i'm going to take this frustration for a walk. Blessings, rob

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ray
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Re: requesting an available guide to help me in this process

Postby ray » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:42 pm

Hi Rob,
Arrgh from here too!
Unfortunately this Forum automatically logs you out after a certain time. If you didn't copy the text you will have lost it. To be sure that it doesn't happen again you could type into Word or another word processor and copy and paste into the reply window. Or you could copy and paste as instructed in my intro.

Your back story isn't essential for this investigation, but it can give some useful context.

I hope your walk goes well.

Please answer the following,
What are your expectations for this inquiry? How will this feel? How do you think it will change you?
Welcome and warm regards,
Ray

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arjayde
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Re: requesting an available guide to help me in this process

Postby arjayde » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:57 am

Hi ray. Thanks for your reply and offer to point (DP) for me.My name is robert.” Quote-- If you like you can share some of the back story and what brought you here”. Traumatic childhood. At around 3, i remember saying mom, dad , god... you can absolutely not be trusted. I will do this and figure this on my own.My life experience has been much emotional woundedness, major alcohol and drug abuse from 14 to 36. somewhere during the abuse phase searching began. Endless searching. to heal, emotionally and physically. god, god and more god. After sobriety , more searching. To say i'm sick of searching would be a huge understatement. However, it did lead to the batgap interview, and then to LU. “quote-- What are your expectations for this inquiry”. Hopefully the searching will be over. Perhaps a fresh perspective on the experience called life. If a deeper connection to intuition and spontaneity: then great. Laughter, joy, love ;bring it on. Experience of life thus far has been quite serious. How will this feel. Direct experience (DE). Don't know....i'll definitely keep you posted. However, i believe the process has already began as i've started journaling as thoughts come up. I've noticed some moments while driving or walking. A sense of deeper connectedness or oneness or observing-ness. Also had some light humour pop-up while sitting in the car at the supermarket.That's actually a big deal, as i experience depression often. go figure! “quote-- How do you think it will change you?” It won't, because the you in your question is suspect. But the perception change plus love expressed = joyful service unto others.This is speculation at this point and not DE. Although one can always hope.
Ray ,there's a few technical items to discuss. Hope this is o.k. 1/ computer. As mentioned, my computer skills suck. What i did was copy and paste your post than sent it to wordpad. i colored your questions instead of quote function. lots of needless work on my part. You have no idea how frustrating it is to search for letters to type, and press send and then the whole document disappears into electron oblivion.It might take me a few days to get this sending/saving.Perhaps you could send a short test post.Like one sentence so i could practice. 2/ As regarding my searching.....it hasn't produced great fruit. So here's what makes sense to me. You have “seen”, otherwise you would'nt have a tree icon by your name.(haha) i have a bud. This process is supposed to be easy. Cosmic humor once seen etc. So..... i'm going to absolutely trust your pointing. My preference is that you would reassure me that you intend to follow this process through until the end. ie. Not leave abandoned, so to speak. 3/ The way i process. If you ask a question i'll take that and mull it over, go for a walk, receive insights etc.I,m really not good with quick back and forth dialogue. ie. your on-line i'm on-line. i will get back to you ever day,as per agreement, i just might not have answers in full. PS Found document. When the document was transferred from wordpad to LU site the color disappeared,so I added “quote” to your words

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Re: requesting an available guide to help me in this process

Postby ray » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:18 am

Hi Rob,
Great to hear back from you. I'll reply more fully tomorrow.

Don't sweat about the quote function, but please try it out :-)
1. Click on the coloured "Post Reply"
2. then highlight some text and
3. click the coloured "Quote " button.
4. You can see how it will look by clicking "preview"

Let's keep this process fun and light. Really looking forward to working with you :-)

All the best,
Ray

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arjayde
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Re: requesting an available guide to help me in this process

Postby arjayde » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:44 am

then highlight some text
just practicing
click the coloured "Quote " button.
keep it simple and light.
You can see how it will look by clicking
just a test.
Let's keep this process fun and light. Really looking forward to working with you
fun and light... that's music to the experiencing ears. thanks much Ray, have a great night.

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ray
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Re: requesting an available guide to help me in this process

Postby ray » Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:03 pm

Hi Rob,

WOW.! That's some neat use of the quote function.

Thank you for the history and expectations. I feel for you. What has happened is all in the past, but it can resonate so strongly in the present. The pain can echo on down the years and the memory of it can be re-inhabited and reinforced by conditions and habit. When you step back and look at this, when it is remembered, who is causing that pain in the present and who is suffering as a result?

At Liberation Unleashed (LU) we have one purpose. It is not directly to resolve past experiences, it is to see in this present moment awareness and in the direct Experience (of your senses, thoughts and the unmistakeable feeling of Life) that there is NO self. I will point and ask questions, to direct you to look. Mulling it over and replying later is fine. Don't try and over-think it though. We're looking for answers from DE rather than philosophy, speculation and analysis.

Your expectations sound very reasonable, but please set that all aside and set aside any beliefs for the duration of this investigation. Look with an open mind. I intend to walk with you until you're through the gateless gate!

I want to keep this light so let me know at any stage if I'm loading you too much and I'll slow it down a bit.
You have a bud icon now, but it's Springtime and it's a great time to grow.
I noted you mentioned fear in your first post. Fear works perfectly to protect you. I'll discuss that with you tomorrow.

For now it's great to see that you've made some progress on your own.
SO lets start looking. What feelings and other reactions come up when I say

" There is NO self. There is no you. There is no self now, never has been and never can be"

Sincerely, Ray

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arjayde
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Re: requesting an available guide to help me in this process

Postby arjayde » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:28 am

hi ray. thanks for the "seeing it through to the end " confirmation. Just got back from a trip to the big city. feel wiped right now. sounds like a great starting point for to-day
" There is NO self. There is no you. There is no self now, never has been and never can be"
the statement there is no self bring up a picture. if i look at the electrical outlet in my room there is a grounding pin. there' also one at your home. they are the same potential... as in equal. no difference. it's like the same earth. some images have come during the past few days regarding self /body /mind. i'll write a summery, but can expand on if you wish. after the very first post , there was a strong emotion experienced. the body was shakey. while cutting veggies for supper i heard " focus on activity". cutting carrots, cutting beans, cutting broccoli etc. then a insight came, "cutting beans is a label" cutting beans is a collection of sense experiences that create the label "cutting bean" knife force cutting through green fuzzy thing,noise of blade hitting cutting board and on and on. image came of the muppet character "count". he said "i love to count everything". the deep understanding was the mind labels EVERYTHING. with sections and with-in sub-sections. ie. beans t carrots t broccoli =supper =mum-mum. the body experiences, the mind records and labels. a piece of sensing biology with a complex computer. is there a self??? experiencer plus labler. my question (to me) is where does intuition/ wisdom come from ? when asking, an image of a forest came up. tall trees, like telephone poles. nice and green and quiet. at the edge of green there was a figure hidden. almost not perceivable. when this was first noticed a couple of days go it seemed right; like an observer.to-day there's doubt?? a bit of a summery; mind and experiencing body. i don't see an i in that.intuition and wisdom; does not come from the body/mind. the eyeballs are not the observer but a part of the experiencing body. i guess the i to me is the observer, however, " i'm not seeing the trees for the forest". the observer is suspect ! as for the last part of the quote; never has been and never can be... all of the mind /body experiences might not seem ....... the brain is like over cooked spagetti right now. way to much head. the word high-jacked comes to mind regarding life. as if some-how the i has high-jacked the experience and claims it as it's own. to-day there was some light-hearted humor regarding the quote function. ray says...... rob says...... there was a very subtle understanding that potential was speaking to potential. pointer to pointer. there was some laughs. there is a little,but true story that happened yesterday at the farm where i live. landlord comes to the door . says he needs our help. apparently a beef cow has "jumped the gate" but she is stuck on the gate. like a titer-toter. half way to freedom, half not. she got back to the heard by the time we arrived. a little humor , and a bit of a start. i"m going to send this now as i'm not sure it's saved properly. thanks ray.

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Re: requesting an available guide to help me in this process

Postby ray » Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:55 pm

Hi Rob,

Well, you have been looking at this from all sorts of angles.You have looked at labeling, experiencing, looking at the I "hijacking" thought. Also at various analogies. You've also mentioned feeling certain about some things and later feeling doubt. Don't worry about that, it's all part of the process. Things are progressing nicely :-)
You also ask where does wisdom or intuition come from. Could I suggest looking at simple, clear thinking, and how the "I" thought gets attached to and interacts with that? How does that affect clarity of thought?

Later on I'll ask you to look at labeling, sensory experience etc.
Let's move forward one topic at a time so that there can be some focus :-)

You mentioned that you have had depression, so I need to ask a couple of questions. How long since you were depressed? Are you currently taking anything either prescribed or non-prescribed to control your mood? (Moderate alcohol consumption and cigarettes don't count)

Take some time to consider the following.
As we engage in this investigation some people feel anxious or fearful. This is quite normal. Fear works to protect you from harm, and this process effectively undermines the idea of a separate self. This idea was always an illusion. So is there anything real that can be harmed?
If fear arises, simply ask the feeling to come close. Welcome it like an old friend. Let it be and just look at it. Look behind the fear, at what is causing it. Simply looking can replace these difficult feelings with deep peace.


Let's continue with looking...
When you say "I" what does that refer to in direct experience? Does it have a shape, a size? Where is it located?

Warm regards,
Ray

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ray
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Re: requesting an available guide to help me in this process

Postby ray » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:58 pm

P.S. I laughed at the real life humour of the beef cow half-in and half-out of the gate. LOL

Ray

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arjayde
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Re: requesting an available guide to help me in this process

Postby arjayde » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:08 pm

hi ray. woke early this morning. felt like writing some stuff down , and did. it's stored on this computer(web- site). your words "clear thinking" and "clarity of thought" are not particularly what my direct experience is... @ now. lots of data unraveling ..quickly. if you would like to read what was put down.. let me know. it can be sent. at least until the web-site removes it from storage.
Let's move forward one topic at a time so that there can be some focus
my experience has to take your word for this.
You mentioned that you have had depression
its more like lack of joy. how long ...since a long time with varying degrees. also a lack of hope.as for drugs,(recreational or prescribed) zero; as in none. alcohol, cigarettes none. coffee.. occasionally. there's other ways to handle depression as well. bingo, workalcoholic, excessive shopping, etc. - none.the depression is a result of not being able to experience the sense of being HOME! some might call home liberation??
Take some time to consider the following.
will concider this until you ask for more.
Welcome it like an old friend
wrote about this in the morning. a friend? perhaps. fear has absolutely occupied a front and centre place in this experience. for 50 years! granted; that with-out "it" survival would not have been possible.but honestly, as of now! fear has been dismissed!
When you say "I" what does that refer to in direct experience? Does it have a shape, a size? Where is it located?
again some more was wrote in the morning. "i": my direct experience of "i" as of today.the world is crazy with i. i-phone, i-T, eye icons with in corporate logos. BIG i is watching, be afraid.there is a i-soup that little babies can "soak-i-up" once their innocent little bodies arrive upon this experience called earth. a shape, a size... no.where is "it" located"? "i" i is like an energy signature that kind-of floats around the earth. millennial of labels, conditioning, presumptions, etc. we're born into "it" once the record grove of conditioning sets its track with-in our brain/mind we're kind of hooked. just assume, don't investigate. the "i" conditioning of school will teach you "the truth". just let the "i-ness of "it' kind of rip-van winkle-ize you. thanks muchly. until a later now, take care. r

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Re: requesting an available guide to help me in this process

Postby ray » Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:34 pm

Hi Rob,

Thanks for reading my post and for your responses. If you have a link to your online "blog" that might be interesting. What is more relevant for this investigation is your introspection of your own Direct Experience.
When you say "I" what does that refer to in direct experience? Does it have a shape, a size? Where is it located?
again some more was wrote in the morning. "i": my direct experience of "i" as of today.the world is crazy with i. i-phone, i-T, eye icons with in corporate logos. BIG i is watching, be afraid.there is a i-soup that little babies can "soak-i-up" once their innocent little bodies arrive upon this experience called earth. a shape, a size... no.where is "it" located"? "i" i is like an energy signature that kind-of floats around the earth. millennial of labels, conditioning, presumptions, etc. we're born into "it" once the record grove of conditioning sets its track with-in our brain/mind we're kind of hooked. just assume, don't investigate. the "i" conditioning of school will teach you "the truth". just let the "i-ness of "it' kind of rip-van winkle-ize you. thanks muchly. until a later now, take care. r
There's lots of insight and wisdom in your observations. This is great, but a lot of it is outward looking. If you can shift that focus to look inward then real progress will be made. I cannot guide you to fix the World, but I can give some pointers that may fix your world!
When I was going through this process there was a time when I was overwhelmed by thinking. I had to take a step back and slow down before moving forward. If it is like that for you then we can take a break at any time. Meditation on your breathing or visualization techniques can help to still the mind, e.g. as thoughts come in imagine them filling up a balloon, then tie off the balloon and let it float off into the distance. These are just suggestions. I'm a guide not a therapist.

Look at labeling. Try this exercise. Choose any object, a cup, a pen or whatever. Pick it up, look at it and notice the mind automatically labeling it. Also notice the values, memories, thoughts, feelings and so on associated with those labels. Now, continuing to look at the object, let the labels fall away, let them subside. If you notice more labels take them off one by one. Sit for a while with this object that is now without name or label and write back with what you notice.
Next close your eyes, turn your head then open your eyes. Looking in this new direction, notice the brief pause before labeling kicks in. That gap is he sort of "thing" we are looking for here.

Please read this excellent article on Direct Experience by CosmiK, one of our other guides, http://this-is-cosmik.blogspot.ca/2012_ ... chive.html

Take it easy,
Ray

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arjayde
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Re: requesting an available guide to help me in this process

Postby arjayde » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:00 pm

hi ray. thanks again for your assistance. i think there has been a bit of clarification regarding (de). de = direct now experience.not direct experience of a past something. this clarity is important...yes? there are moments when that quiet observation happen. however, the mind loves to jump all over the experience with a bunch of references to past, labels and possible future stories. de is now.
overwhelmed by thinking.
yep, can relate.thanks also for option of break, if needed. but lets continue please.
I'm a guide not a therapist.
understood, from the start, and there's no expectations for you to "fix" me in any way. your question regarding "meds." presented a (de) of anger which presented a trail. frustration/ anger / control vs"will" and on the flip side was surrender ie. no more searching. some-how it's part of your statement "look how the i gets attached to" from yesterdays post. (tried to take a quote from yesterday and bring it forward...?) anyways; that's yesterday. perhaps that imfo. can simmer.
Next close your eyes, turn your head then open your eyes. Looking in this new direction, notice the brief pause before labeling kicks in. That gap is he sort of "thing" we are looking for here.
experience labeled rob, will head off to some quiet, for (de) experiment with directions with-in the quote. also, printed "cosmik" piece on (de) to puruse. take care, until next post. r

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Re: requesting an available guide to help me in this process

Postby ray » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:04 pm

Hi Rob,
That's sounding much more focused :-)
The statement that made you feel reactive and anger wasn't intended to do that, but it can be productive to work with those feelings. What you did with those feelings is spot on - resolving them to acceptance/surrender and seeing how the "I" attaching to thoughts is involved.

Please do both parts of the labeling exercise and share what you experience
.

Best wishes,
Ray


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