into unnamed :)

[Conti]

Hi everybody!

The story that brought me here is long and complicated, but to make it short I'll name some relevant points:
I've been experiencing OOBE (non-physical journeys) for some years (in my '20ies) and it is easy for me not to identify myself with my body and appearance. Also, from time to time, I was exeriencing then as another personality that I am in an awake state forgetting totally my story then but having a different one (as a man or child for example). Waking up I realized that my personality etc. is not ultimate.

Searching for truth about who I really am I started my Buddhist chapter a few years ago. Working with mind, experimenting with the mind, consciousness has always been my passion so I got some interesting experiences also in a Buddhist way. As formal practice is my weak point I meditate only occasionally and rather concentrate on being aware and present than doing anything special as a practice.

Looking at "I" I can't find anything but I am not sure if I really crossed the Gate. A few days ago I had a moment of clarity and could see how "I" affects my life - it's still there (as a belief), but well hidden in subconsciuos processes. I hope I'll find a help here to clear the "I" traces which cause some vague pain to me (felt as sadness).

I am ready to dig it out! I hope a guide will help me.

[Conti]

I would like to add that I've read the disclaimer and I accept the rules of this place.

[otterrivers]

hi Conti. If you haven't found a guide already, i'd be glad to work with you. Just let me know and we'll get started.

[otterrivers]

oh I see now you have not found a guide. ok let's get started. you have already read the rules and disclaimer so I don't have to go over that with you.
1) I'll start by asking you what are your expectations of this process?
2) when I say "I", "me" or "self" etc what do those words point to. just look and say what you see.

[Conti]

I am happy that you'll be my guide :).
Let's start then!

1) I'll start by asking you what are your expectations of this process?

I hope that after crossing the "Gate" I'll be able to live the life which is actually happening, without illusions and "bending" the reality - adapting it to wishful/fear expectations... I also hope that I could experience afterwards in a more intense direct way, without glasses of labelling and "I" concentrated thinking... I feel a longing for that.

when I say "I", "me" or "self" etc what do those words point to. just look and say what you see.

"I" - I see a reflection of features, personality, of past wishes and experiences, past emotions - like a shadow following me. It's also like a closed space around which is formed to meet the incoming expectations - at the beginning of the family, later on - of me and others to fit into the patern of other "I". Strong energies are involved in keeping the "I" pattern of others. I feel I don't need to protect it, there's nothing to protect, although some kind of fear is in the background, fear of leaving the known and entering the unknown. But - to be exact - fear is accompanied by excitement :).
Yesterday - waiting for my guide :) - after reading some articles on the blogs of Ilona, Elena and others I found by chance a speech of Bodhidharma on awakened mind and reading it I felt I am an unlimited space of consciousness. That's when a fear arose followed by emotions - so that's why I'm conscious of the background...

[Conti]

Yesterday's experience I think was important - it must have been the Gate, but after some minutes it was gone... It happened unexpectedly while I was reading through...

For the moment something loosened in me and I saw/felt I was never born, there has never been any me or the outside world... These are dreamlike forms. I would never think that it will be that way - I thought that I'll get some understanding which will somewhat alter my way of perceiving. But it was totally different from what I know... Nothing I know was true. Then I got scared... The experience faded in emotions...

Nevertheless, now my illusion is on. But there's a crack in it.

[otterrivers]

It's ok. we don't need to deal with the dear or confront it. it just is til it isn't. for now, we just move on and if it remains troublesome we will love it and look into it later. but we may find it has wandered off on it's own while we were busy. )

do you see when looking that there is no self in reality? or would you say it's more of an intellectual understanding?

[otterrivers]

I will be available again tonight around 8pm (U.S. west coast time) If you are available, we may be able to chat here rather than wait for another day.

[otterrivers]

when I said "deal with the dear" earlier, I meant "fear". haha. bad proof-reading.

[Conti]

I live in Europe (Poland) - time zone CET. It means +6 hours to NYC time. I like night talks, so I may be available at 10 pm - 2 am (for you 4 - 8 pm). What do you think about it?

I'll answer your question in the evening, as my kid is invited to the birthday party today and we must leave soon...

Best regards,
Aneta

[Conti]

do you see when looking that there is no self in reality? or would you say it's more of an intellectual understanding?

Well, it's not so easy to answer... I had some experiences (together with the last one) indicating that there's some unlimited consciousness, that there's no separation between my mind and the minds of everything other, I sometimes can distinguish other people's mind stream in mine when they concentrate on me: I feel others then as part of me. Nevertheless, at the same time in my normal everyday life I "forget" about all of that and act as if there were separate selves, actually I lose the experience in my normal life and get hypnotized by the others who cling to duality. It's like a program, which may be stopped but generally is turned on. I must cling to it for some reason, otherwise I would have given it up.
When I look into myself right now I see that I still cling to "I", but there are some triggers which activate the state with no self. On the level of beliefs - "I" is still there, till a wave of pure consciousness dissolves everything. When the wave retreats I'm back with my ego to match the system.

[otterrivers]

I am here and available to talk for an hour or 2.

[otterrivers]

Let's look into what you've said:

What is it that forgets and remembers that there is no separate self?
What loses the experience / what gets hypnotized by "others"?
What clings or gives up?

These are different ways to ask one question. So you can answer with one answer. :)

[Conti]

What is it that forgets and remembers that there is no separate self?
What loses the experience / what gets hypnotized by "others"?
What clings or gives up?

These are different ways to ask one question. So you can answer with one answer. :)

Oh I don't know...really... I feel that it's hidden in my way of interpreting it :). I promise I will observe tomorrow my mind during interactions with others - to find the misinterpretation and I'll come back and write what I get. I wouldn't like to answer from the intellect now...

[otterrivers]

ok. check and see. report what you see and not what seems to be the "right answer" :)
where is the reality of this character that can go back and forth from identification to seeing there is no self?
I'll talk to u tomorrow.