Guidance please

[zomajo]

Hi there.

I registered and started a thread back in July last year, but abandoned it. I cannot really say why, but I guess fear of the unknown.

I am not sure, but I feel that I may have undergone the initial awakening. I find that beliefs are dropping away and that I often get left with a feeling of emptyness and detachment, however I cannot truly say that the sense of a seperate self is entirely gone.

I await further guidance.

Matt

[zomajo]

Is there anyone willing to guide me? I hope that the fact I left the process before it was complete last time is not putting anyone off. I assure you that this time I will stick it out and follow your guidance until I reach the gate. I look forward to greeting my guide very soon. Thanks, Matt

[nenad]

Hi Zomajo!

I would like to be your guide!

If you haven't already seen it, there is intro info here, our disclaimer and a short video too.
http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

Also, there are some standard rules:

1. You agree to post at least once a day.
2. In general, I will ask the questions for you to respond to
3. Responses require your utmost honesty
4. Responses are best from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Longwinded
analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
5. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation.
Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and
essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that

If you could confirm you have seen and agree to all the above and would like me to be your guide - then we
shall begin.

Warm regards,
Nenad

[zomajo]

Hi Nenan,

Thanks for your response.

I can confirm I have seen and agree to all of the above. I shall cease all spiritual practises and reading other than meditation until this process is complete.

Please may we begin.

With thanks
Matt

[nenad]

Great!

Tell me what are your expectations for seeing there is no Self? What will happen, how will it be, what will change?

[nenad]

I am not sure, but I feel that I may have undergone the initial awakening. I find that beliefs are dropping away and that I often get left with a feeling of emptyness and detachment, however I cannot truly say that the sense of a seperate self is entirely gone.

What exactly happened?

[zomajo]

Great!

Tell me what are your expectations for seeing there is no Self? What will happen, how will it be, what will change?

If I can start by stating the reason I wish to undergo the process which is to see truth. I have read about the concept of no-self and I understand it intellectually, but I want to see if it is true for myself by direct experience.

As for your questions I expect that having seen no-self that I will be able to detach myself from the story that I have been living in and see it for what it is. I do not feel that anything will change us such other than my perception of what is.

[zomajo]

I am not sure, but I feel that I may have undergone the initial awakening. I find that beliefs are dropping away and that I often get left with a feeling of emptyness and detachment, however I cannot truly say that the sense of a seperate self is entirely gone.

What exactly happened?

So here is where I struggle a little as I find some experiences quite subtle and very hard to put into words, but let me try and make a couple of examples.

An example of a awakening experience that I had recently is I was in the kitchen making a cup of coffee when all of a sudden I was watching my hands go through the actions of making a drink, but "i" was not diong any of it. It was very brief because as soon as I strating trying to watch it I became consious of my movements and what I was going to do next, but for brief moment I was just awareness and the awareness was watching this body making a cup of coffee and the two, the body and the awareness, were seperate.

As an example of beliefs falling away I often find myself analysing a belief such as "I will be satisfied when I reach this goal" and realising that it is false and that I can only be satisfied now. Following this realisation the belief just drops off. The goal may still be there, but I no longer hang some desired state upon its outcome.

I don't like to keep referring to stuff I have read as I realise that this process is about direct experience and not intellectual understanding, but the two examples above fit in with things I have read about awakening, however I do not see that there is no self therefore I feel I am either being fooled by the ego or the process is not complete.

[nenad]

As for your questions I expect that having seen no-self that I will be able to detach myself from the story that I have been living in and see it for what it is. I do not feel that anything will change us such other than my perception of what is.

Your expectations seem realistic. Never the less, expectations are just thoughts, right? :)

What happens reading this: "There is no self, in any, way, shape or form, there never was, nor there ever will be. There is just a thought saying there is."

[zomajo]

I notice three experiences.

1. I feel a lightness come over me in particular in my limbs and I can feel an aliveness in my inner body again more strognly in my limbs.

2. My mind is blank, no thoughts came up.

3. There is a slight knot in my chest that I notice, but as I am writing this the sensation is moving up my wind pipe into my throat.

[nenad]

I don't like to keep referring to stuff I have read as I realise that this process is about direct experience and not intellectual understanding,

Exactly! Let us just focus on moment-to-moment experience, without comparing to any ideas about enlightenment, ok?

I notice three experiences.

1. I feel a lightness come over me in particular in my limbs and I can feel an aliveness in my inner body again more strognly in my limbs.

2. My mind is blank, no thoughts came up.

3. There is a slight knot in my chest that I notice, but as I am writing this the sensation is moving up my wind pipe into my throat.

Nice observations!

An example of a awakening experience that I had recently is I was in the kitchen making a cup of coffee when all of a sudden I was watching my hands go through the actions of making a drink, but "i" was not diong any of it. It was very brief because as soon as I strating trying to watch it I became consious of my movements and what I was going to do next, but for brief moment I was just awareness and the awareness was watching this body making a cup of coffee and the two, the body and the awareness, were seperate.

We will return to this a bit latter.

As an example of beliefs falling away I often find myself analysing a belief such as "I will be satisfied when I reach this goal" and realising that it is false and that I can only be satisfied now. Following this realisation the belief just drops off. The goal may still be there, but I no longer hang some desired state upon its outcome.

Do you analise, realise etc.?
Are you thinker of thoughts?

Warm regards!

[zomajo]

I would say the best word I can use to describe it is I notice the thoughts/beliefs and I notice that it is causing suffering in some way therefore the thoughts cease. Am I thinking the thoughts? No they just arise, but when I "notice" them as I described I break free from them instead of being lost in them. Some however I find more persistant/repetitive and I find that I have to remind myself that they are just thoughts. So I guess what I am trying to say is some thoughts once noticed drop away completely whereas others cease, but then return again at a later time/date.

Do I analyse the thoughts, well when I notice them I might think "this thought is just a thought and I can let it go becuase it is not a real experience just a projection" is that analysis?

Having just written all of the above I re-read your question as is it "me" who is analysing rather than do I analyse my thoughts which of course puts a different perspective on the question. I get that I am not thoughts, but thoughts still occur. When that thought catches hold of me, to use the example from earlier, "I will be satisfied when I reach this goal" who is identifying with this thought? I dont know.

[nenad]

Am I thinking the thoughts? No they just arise

Exactly! Can you predict the next thought?

I get that I am not thoughts, but thoughts still occur

If you are not thoughts, then what are you?

[zomajo]

No I cannot predict the next thought.

I am the thing which experiences the thought/emotion/sensation.

What is that thing? Awareness is the best word I can think of, but I still feel a sense of being seperate like this little patch of awareness is me alone.

Does that make sense?

[nenad]

Hi Zomajo

I am the thing which experiences the thought/emotion/sensation.

Is there such thing? How do you know? :)

Awareness is the best word I can think of, but I still feel a sense of being seperate like this little patch of awareness is me alone.

Does that make sense?

Is awareness separate from thought/emotion/sensation?

Warm regards,
Nenad