Ever ready to wake up! Would really appreciate some help

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Chuang
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Ever ready to wake up! Would really appreciate some help

Postby Chuang » Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:43 pm

I had an experience where I felt total liberation before. A sense of lightness all over the body and there was joy and bliss. And that come from realizing that "I do not exist." It happened out of the sudden and it felt too great at that time. However, I did not understand how did I do it. But I remember doing something like separating everything from labels and that experience came. After perhaps a day or two, the feeling was totally gone.

I know that there is no self, but it seems like I couldn't feel it anymore. I feel trapped, stuck and at my wits end while spending the last few days on this website and also reading Gateless gatecrasher. And it seems like the permanent shift did not occur yet. Also, just a little background information, I got this social anxiety issue that is getting pretty much out of hand. But I kind of know that its core is this identification of self and also from trying desperately to protect my self-image.

Would really appreciate if anyone of you will guide me out of this. Thank you in advance you lovely people!

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Re: Ever ready to wake up! Would really appreciate some help

Postby dreamer » Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:03 pm

Hello Chuang

I am happy to guide you. There are some terms to agree on before we go:
I ask, you answer
We post at least once a day as long as we are working together
You refrain from spritual search and practice, if possible, while we work together

If you agree on those terms, let's get started :)

Please write down every exspectation you have on how life will be when 'I' is seen thorough. Dig a little deep- are there any almost hidden exspectations?

The personal I is an illusion, it is not there, have never been there at all

What happens when reading this?

Greetings Vivi

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Chuang
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Re: Ever ready to wake up! Would really appreciate some help

Postby Chuang » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:44 am

Hi Vivi!

Thanks for helping really! :)
And yep, I gladly agree to all the terms

All the expectations that I have:

- Getting rid of this anxiety issue or at least function normally
- Be able to enjoy life as it is
- To be able to experience raw emotions without taking them personally
- Fully live in the experience of now
- Able to live in peace and joy at least for majority of the time
- Be able to see and experience all the beautiful things in life
- To be able to see the "oneness"
- To be able to help people get out of this illusion as I know how it is like to suffer in it.
- To not suffer anymore
- To not be self conscious anymore
- To be happy
- To be my real self
- To know what being is
- To feel this pure and empowering love
- To feel at ease at most of the times

I know that it's pretty long, but it sums up everything that I expect from this.
The personal I is an illusion, it is not there, have never been there at all
It feels a little empty, a little of anger, sadness, fear, frustrated because I know but couldn't experience it. Lost and helpless. But also very much relief.

That's all I can think about now

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Re: Ever ready to wake up! Would really appreciate some help

Postby dreamer » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:21 am

Hi Chuang

Very good. Nice detailed list of expectations. We will leave it there for now and go back to it if it feels relevant.

You know but have never experienced that there is no personal I. If you haven't experienced it, how do you know? Have you heard about it, and believes what you have heard?

Time for some experiencing, in a specific way called direct experience:

Direct experience
What is experienced this instant, with as little thoughts as possible. Thought is labelling all experiences as nice, bad, strong, good, right etc. You just let the thoughts be there and not listen to what they say, as much as you can.
Direct experiencing is without taking into account anything you have heard, read, learnt, thought, believed, assumed. Just the raw experience right now: sights, sounds, smells, sensations, feelings. It can fell easier to do when eyes are closed. If thoughts are saying: whoa this sounds difficult, just do not listen to them and start experiencing :)

When you are doing something, like doing the dishes, laundry, walking - doesn't matter what, can you find, in direct experience, an 'I' doing it. Is there an 'I' deciding what to do? If yes, how? If no, what happens then?

:) Vivi

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Re: Ever ready to wake up! Would really appreciate some help

Postby dreamer » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:27 am

Do it some times during the day

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Re: Ever ready to wake up! Would really appreciate some help

Postby Chuang » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:56 am

Okay.. I am going to try it out and report back to you!
May I just ask what time zone do you live in? So that I could gauge when you would reply :p

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Re: Ever ready to wake up! Would really appreciate some help

Postby dreamer » Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:34 am

GMT - 1

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Re: Ever ready to wake up! Would really appreciate some help

Postby dreamer » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:31 pm

+ 1 that is

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Re: Ever ready to wake up! Would really appreciate some help

Postby Chuang » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:31 pm

So I tried it just now, and have a few moments where there isn't any thought, but only for while. No, there is no "I" when there is direct experience. But the mind just jump so fast to label and claim everything as its. And the sense of I-ness is so strong..
If no, what happens then?
Err, things just seems to be automatic, though the sense of wanting control was still very strong.

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Re: Ever ready to wake up! Would really appreciate some help

Postby dreamer » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:09 pm

Good!

Next time, let the thought be there just do not listen.

While we are at it. are you the thinker of thoughts?
How does thoughts happen?
Can you decide what to think, what not to think, when to think?

Look at the thought process in DE /direct experience)

:) Vivi

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Chuang
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Re: Ever ready to wake up! Would really appreciate some help

Postby Chuang » Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:21 am

Hmm, thoughts happens just like that. It arises automatically. Even when there seems to be a "thinker" but the thinker "I" is also a thought itself. It goes like,

"Hmm, so how does thoughts happen?"
"Is there a thinker?"
"No, thoughts just arises themselves"
"But it seems like there is something triggering the thoughts"
"It's an even more subtle thought."
"So all these are thoughts"
"I think the thoughts?"
"No! You're a thought also!"
"How could a thought think thought?!"
"Thoughts just happen"
"Can I decide when and what to think?"
"Yes I can! You see, now I want to think of some positive thoughts"
<--- But this is just a string of thoughts that arises out of no where too!
"Like I am awesome, things are beautiful, the day is beautiful, woah, the flowers are nice!"
"And where do those thoughts come from"
"They comes from me!"
<----- Even this is just a thought

So all are thoughts, even the thinker is a thought.

But there seems to be something, something that could focus its attention on the thought? And now I am confused!

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Chuang
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Re: Ever ready to wake up! Would really appreciate some help

Postby Chuang » Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:22 am

Very very confused and pretty frustrated!

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Re: Ever ready to wake up! Would really appreciate some help

Postby dreamer » Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:22 am

Good Chuang!

Confusion is fine, just like everything else :)
Look into this confusion...What is confusion actually? Is there someone who is confused? What is this 'something that can focus its attention on thoughts?

:) Vivi

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Re: Ever ready to wake up! Would really appreciate some help

Postby Chuang » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:33 am

Confusion is conflicting thoughts and feelings of frustration and the stuck-ness in the chest and aching in the head.
And no, no one is confused, there are just feelings of confusion.

'Something that focuses its attention on thoughts'
Erm I'm wondering if it it's the real me, like awareness?
And I have a question! That is.. I can see that "I" is just a pointer. But is this pointer really hollow? Or does it point to something deeper? Something that is not controlling anything, something that is not doing anything but just observing everything that is happening without interfering, like just being?

Like this thing is able to feel and experience all of "Chuang's" story but wouldn't get attached and taking anything personal?

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Re: Ever ready to wake up! Would really appreciate some help

Postby dreamer » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:51 pm

Yes, yes, and yes.
But don't believe me.....see for your self!

Now in DE what is making decisions? How does decisions and actions come to happen. Can you find a 'doer'?

:) Vivi


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