Please help me to see (or is it be ?)

[richardcooper2k]

Hi
I discovered a deeper, more embodied relationship to life when i read "The Art Of Happiness" which was written in conjunction with the Dalai Lama.
After this i got involved with a local Buddhist group and read about various related things. Discovered meditation and yoga. Became involved with Andrew Cohen's movement.
The common thread through it all has been an interest in experience centered being as opposed to thought centered identity. Teachings have only interested me as far as i can relate them to my own experience.
I am not really sure where i am in relationship to awakening to there being no self
What i am identified with tends to change according to how i spend my time.

What i do know is that when my center of gravity is more aligned with my experience i feel more alive, life is more vivid, and the thing i value the most is that i relate to people in a different way. When i am in a good state it seems to help people stand in their own experience. In doing this they become more empowered to meet life and not be victimized by it

So when i question why am i here looking for guidance - it is because i want to deepen my being and in doing so give others confidence in their own

Hope that makes sense

Richard

[richardcooper2k]

Been reading gateless gatecrashers and chasing the sense of self around my experience.
I do something or notice a sensation in my body and then all of i sudden i hang a self off it.
I investigate - it disappears - and then pops up again - think i need to go to bed - it feels like i'm spinning round in my own experience
Will keep on with this

[Bezuda]

I will help you Richard.

So, for this you need to answer my questions as honest as possible and don't search for information anywhere.

Tell me, what is 'I' or 'me' ?

[Bezuda]

By the way. Remove all your expectations, it will only confuse you and will not help.

Hug :D

[richardcooper2k]

Still investigating the sense of self
Sometimes it isn't here and there is just what is
At other times a great tension seems to develop and it seems realy difficult to keep focusing on my experience
Like the is no space for me to see things in

Hi Bezuda you seem to have posted while i was writing this one
I will post it anyway and then respond to yours

[richardcooper2k]

Hi Bezuda
Thanks for your offer to help, i am very grateful
Not looking for information elsewhere is the easy bit
Disregarding what i think i know is much harder

I don't feel clear at all about what i or me is
My perception of it is constantly changing
Is it an experience or an idea ?(i am questioning myself)
As i write this there is a strong sense that i exist and am writing this but i can't find - oh my god i don't even know what it is i'm looking for (what is labelled as the self)

[richardcooper2k]

OK, another go
(looks - can't find it - bursts into laughter)
Why does it seem so elusive ?
I think i have developed skills in pushing "I" into the background (or is it "I" that does this itself)
But this makes it harder to see when it becomes so subtle - should i try to bring it more to the front
Or is this irrelevant - just concentrate on seeing things as they are ?

At the moment the "I" is something i am associating with a sensation in my chest which i experience as the center of my being (universe?). But if i shift my attention to what i am thinking, what and where "I" is becomes less clear. I think it constantly jumps onto what i have just thought, said or done so is much harder to observe.

If i become very interested in something in it's own right then the "I" fades. If i am interested in how something relates to me "I" identification becomes stronger

I feel like if i could just switch my perspective it would all fall away.....should i trust that hunch ?

After all that i still don't think i'm any closer to seeing what "I" actually is

[richardcooper2k]

When you say don't search for information anywhere - does that include reading the threads on the forum, the Quotes app and the gateless gate ?
Just to be sure ? (i am expecting it is OK?)

PS Thanks for the hug :-)

[Bezuda]

It's a pleasure for me to help you on this :)

You can read stuff on quotes app and the gateless gate. But be as honest as you can when answering my questions so I can get track of your ' real progress '.

' I ' is just a label for thoughts and sensations in the body. These are things that belong to no one. Can you see this?

The sence of self will always be present, but i want you to realise what you really are and it's not that. It's something that words can't tell. It is beyond language.

Is 'I' , 'me' or 'self' something physical? If so where is it located?

[richardcooper2k]

The "I" is not something physical

It is a label i put on something. This thing can be a thought or a sensation. But it is ephemeral. It is fleeting. It soon shifts elsewhere, sometimes i can't find it

I usually identify thoughts as being mine. Sensations less so. I find sensation easier to observe

[Bezuda]

How can a thing that doesn't exist shift?

[richardcooper2k]

A koan
I can give you an intellectual answer but that dodges the bullet
I feel like i keep running into a wall
Everything goes tight and i can't seem to see anything
Still trying to see

[richardcooper2k]

What time zone are you in Bezuda ?
Should i call you Bezuda ?

[Bezuda]

Im from Portugal. You?
Its better for you to write, it helps you clarify things in the head. Skype won't help better :s
After you see it, ofcourse you can call me :)

So, you already seen that the self or the 'me' is just a concept, an idea. So, what is it beside that? Is it your thoughts? Is is your brain?

[Bezuda]

Walk around your house. Jump, move arms and legs. And LOOk!

Who's jumping? Who's moving the arms? Who's moving the legs? Who's walking?