I want to know the truth.

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Sid
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I want to know the truth.

Postby Sid » Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:56 pm

Hi!
I want to know the truth. I am too tired of seeking for a long time and would like to dive in and end it once and for all.
The seeking has exhausted me. I understand that there is no 'me' . But I Don't think i have internalized this completely and haven't grasped this completely. There are times the 'me' comes back and takes charge. So I would be grateful for a guide who can help me pass through the gate.

Cheers
Sid

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sunni
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Re: I want to know the truth.

Postby sunni » Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:03 pm

Hello Sid,

I would be happy to assist. :) Can you read and agree to the following ground rules before we begin?

1. You agree to post at least every day.
2. I will post questions, and you will answer them.
3. When you answer, you answer 110% honestly,
4. and when you do answer, you answer from your direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Long winded analytical and philosophical answers are not needed and may even hinder progress.
5. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this journey. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
6. Please learn to use the quote function, instructions below:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

If that is all agreed to, then please begin by stating your expectations about this "seeing" or "awakening". Please list what you expect with complete honesty.

With Love,
Sunni

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Sid
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Re: I want to know the truth.

Postby Sid » Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:14 am

Hello Sunni!
Thanks for replying. I agree to all the ground rules and I am ready to start.

If that is all agreed to, then please begin by stating your expectations about this "seeing" or "awakening". Please list what you expect with complete honesty.
What are my expectations about awakening? To be frank , I really don't know. It is somewhat embarrassing that though i have been indulging myself in this frustrating search for the 'truth' , I don't think I have any clue what this ' truth' is . I guess it involves question - 'who am I'. From what knowledge about I accumulated , Its probably some experience of being one with everything , some indescribable experience , blah blah blah..... or maybe these experiences are not necessarily the truth. I don't care . All i want is the truth and I am not searching for any experiences. I just want to KNOW . Thats it. No fluff Just the essential stuff.

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sunni
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Re: I want to know the truth.

Postby sunni » Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:50 pm

Wonderful Sid! dropping the fluff and all expectations is a very good place to start. :)

So tell me, in detail, where you believe this "I", this separate self to be?

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Sid
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Re: I want to know the truth.

Postby Sid » Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:12 pm

Sorry for the late reply. Couldn't be in front of comp today.

Well I looked. I searched for the 'I' (As I type this sentence , i realized how funny the sentence seemed. who is searching and what exactly is being searched....hmmm) .I found no one . The 'me' isn't there at all. .Each time I looked there was no 'I'. I just assumed it existed. Yet there are the times I feel the 'I' ness in me , but each time i look , there is no 'I'.
There was this cartoon i remember - the kids used to play in the room. When the father opens the door and peeps into the room , the kids immediately pretended to be asleep. When the father left , the kids started playing again. I suspect this is what is happening to me each time is search for an 'i' . The' 'me' is always there in the background but disappears when i look for it.
I usually experience myself as a separate self ( or I ) when I am interacting with other people.Does this happen to you too? Is it possible not to experience 'I' during interaction with people ? Does the separate self 'I' have any practical uses?

To summarize , I understand that there is no 'me' , but i do experience 'me'ness at times and I see that it is generated when there is a feeling of separateness. In order to not experience this 'me'ness, I guess I shouldn't feel separateness. I have no clue on how to do that.

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Sid
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Re: I want to know the truth.

Postby Sid » Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:20 pm

Another thing - so there is no 'I' . Does that imply there is no-one controlling anything. If there is no 'me at all, do things just happen ? I sense there is something to explore here. Something I don't get at all .Guide me through this , will ya?

Cheers
sid

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Sid
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Re: I want to know the truth.

Postby Sid » Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:15 am

Hey Sunni!
The previous post i posted made me further explore.Before going to sleep, I pondered this question - If there is no 'me' , then whom is the present experience and experience of life happening to? No answer . I just sitting here stumped.
A surprising side effect of this question - i woke up today experiencing tinge of peace and joy. But to whom is this experience happening to ? I am still - well - stumped. No answer at all.

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sunni
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Re: I want to know the truth.

Postby sunni » Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:08 pm

Good LOOKING Sid!

Does experience need an "experience-er" in order to just BE? Check. Is there an "experiencer" of experience or does experience simply arise? Does it need "someone" to arise to?

Let me know what you find. :)

with love,
Sunni

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sunni
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Re: I want to know the truth.

Postby sunni » Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:14 pm

The' 'me' is always there in the background but disappears when i look for it.
Yes, this is how it seems. But is there a 'me' that disappears?

What is this seeming separate self to whom you refer? What does it appear as?


With Love,
Sunni

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Sid
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Re: I want to know the truth.

Postby Sid » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:03 am

Hey Sunni!
What is this seeming separate self to whom you refer? What does it appear as?
This made me look further. When i said i experience separate self and that there was a 'me' in background ,I was wrong. I didn't experience separate self as it seemed. I was experiencing separateness. The feeling of separateness is feeling of separateness. Thats it! . I mixed in concept of me with separateness and confused myself.

So what does this separate self appear as? I see that it is just a thought. The separateness triggered the thought of 'me' which i assumed to be true. I believed that thought for years. Lot of struggle was done to solidify the 'me' ., trying to make it successful or superior or fulfilled , gratified etc. But it was clearly a waste of time because 'me is just a thought and it doesn't exist. Its a surprise I have been taken for a ride by this thought for so long. I need some time to grasp this completely.

By the way , I am curious about separateness now. What triggers it? Does the separateness trigger the'me' thought or vice versa? or is it a cycle with each one triggering each other? Shed some light on this, will ya?

I suspect that separateness might be just a thought too? I explore this and tell you.

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Sid
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Re: I want to know the truth.

Postby Sid » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:08 am

Does experience need an "experience-er" in order to just BE? Check. Is there an "experiencer" of experience or does experience simply arise? Does it need "someone" to arise to?
I was more preoccupied with other question than this. Seeing what i found , I don't think that experience needs a experiencer at all. It just happens.Experiencer is just a bunch of 'me' thoughts reacting to the experience. I see that its what my mind is conditioned to do. It just reacts to the experience and feelings and interprets it into bunch of thoughts based on its - umm - experience and training from the past. :). So experience just happens. Hmmm.... I pay more attention to this and see.

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sunni
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Re: I want to know the truth.

Postby sunni » Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:00 pm

Morning Sid!
So experience just happens.
Yes. Great looking, continue to look into this. We can break experience down into the following:

1. Thoughts
2. Feelings: Sensory (seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, tactile feeling)
3. Feelings: Emotional (sadness, happiness, anger, boredom, etc.)
4. Sense of Aliveness (that unnameable presence of feeling of life)

Is there a thinker behind thought? Where does thought come from? Are YOU doing it, or does it just appear? Can you control it? Can you stop it, or change it, or choose to only think happy things? Is there ANY control there at all?

How about feelings - sensory or emotional - are they arising TO someone, are they happening to a YOU, or is that just another assumption?

How about sense of aliveness - is it "yours"? Is it encapsulted within "you", or is it everywhere? Where is the dividing line?

Have a look and let me know what you find. :)
With love,
Sunni

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sunni
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Re: I want to know the truth.

Postby sunni » Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:10 pm

By the way , I am curious about separateness now. What triggers it? Does the separateness trigger the'me' thought or vice versa? or is it a cycle with each one triggering each other? Shed some light on this, will ya?

I suspect that separateness might be just a thought too? I explore this and tell you.
Some would say that thought triggers the feeling, and some would say that the feeling triggers the thought, and some would say that an energy triggers the thought and feeling, and some would say that the thought and feeling creates the energy. The truth is, all of this is totally moot. The mind loves this game, because it's a never ending loop of searching for what cannot be known. Here, we stick to direct experience, so the mind is forced to confront itself (so to speak) and in direct experience separation just IS. it simply IS. Even apparent separation is not separate from THIS (all that is), but it continues to appear. ;)

All we need to do here is look deeply: IS there anything that is separate here?? there is a feeling, there is a thought, but IS there anything that the feeling and thought is pointing to?

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Sid
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Re: I want to know the truth.

Postby Sid » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:10 pm

Hello Sunni!

I should have told you this before.Due to seeking the truth for more than a year, I feel somewhat wearied .Most part of me is just exhausted by this whole spiritual stuff .So sometimes i just don't seem to have energy for seeking. Just wanted to put this out.
Is there a thinker behind thought? Where does thought come from? Are YOU doing it, or does it just appear? Can you control it? Can you stop it, or change it, or choose to only think happy things? Is there ANY control there at all?
Well, there doesn't seem to be a thinker. Thoughts seems to appearing on its own. I have no clue where they come from and where they disappear to? Can i control it? well, I sometimes can .If i want to think of a number six , the thought six appears. But otherwise , there isn't much control over thoughts. Yet I do have a tendency to control them.
I can stop thoughts for some time by paying attention to my mind. But thats for a very short time. Otherwise , i really can't stop it. Nor can I choose to think only happy things or any kind of thought based on my past experience.
How about feelings - sensory or emotional - are they arising TO someone, are they happening to a YOU, or is that just another assumption?
They just arise and the mind interprets it as far as ican see.
How about sense of aliveness - is it "yours"? Is it encapsulted within "you", or is it everywhere? Where is the dividing line?
Ah well, thats an interesting question.:) I am afraid I little stumped here.

Is it 'mine'?
I don't think so.

Is it encapsulated within me?
i think not.

Where is the dividing line? Is it everywhere?
Dividing line is imaginary. But i have no clue if its everywhere. By direct experience , I can only investigate it in my body.Can't seem to see beyond the body. I can see that the plannts , animals and people around me are alive. I don't know if i can see aliveness beyond that. But there are times i feel the universe seems more alive when i can percieve its -umm- stilness as eckhart tolle puts it. tThere are times i feel the sunlight , the rain , the environment seems have this calmness .

I am considering d he view that I am this aliveness which is aware and looking at the world through the two holes called eyes.

This question also make feel somewhat limited. I feel that the looking tb=hat is done is being limited by my self centre or self perspective ( for lack of better word).Can't seem to look beyond this limits.
: IS there anything that is separate here?? there is a feeling, there is a thought, but IS there anything that the feeling and thought is pointing to?
There is nothing that seems to be separate here. The thought and feeling seems to point to non-seperateness.

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Sid
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Re: I want to know the truth.

Postby Sid » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:34 pm

By the way , I am really finding this conversation very helpful , Sunni. It helps me to commit to finding the truth..


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