Ready to be guided...

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shantijoe
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Ready to be guided...

Postby shantijoe » Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:57 pm

Hello
My name is 'appicha' (aka 'joe') a 60 year old male living in the UK. Most of my working life has been as a musician in the UK and USA. I started meditating in 1984 (after a another crisis). I now live and work at a Buddhist retreat centre and am excited by what I read on this site! This site has inspired my small residential community and I'm ready for a dose of unleashed liberation though a little daunted...!
Do get in touch, appicha

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cosmiK
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Re: Ready to be guided...

Postby cosmiK » Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:36 pm

Hey Appicha,

I'll be your guide.

There are a few ground rules, please respond to confirm:

1. You agree to post at least every day.
2. I will post questions, and you will answer them.
3. When you answer you answer 110% honestly,
4. and when you do answer, you answer from your direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Long winded analytical and philosophical answers are not needed and may even hinder progress.
5. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this journey. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
6. Please learn to use the quote function, instructions are located in the link below this line:
http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

----

- Please tell me shortly yet succinctly what your expectations for Liberation are? How will it be / feel for you? How will it change your life?

with Love.

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shantijoe
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Re: Ready to be guided...

Postby shantijoe » Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:14 pm

Hello
thanks for offering to guide me. Your questions "How will it be / feel for you? How will it change your life?"
I've used questions around the nature of self/mind in the Dzogchen/Mahamudra tradition and got a strong sense of the truth of 'non-self' but felt that a deeper realisation was needed- a deeper freedom.
2 months ago I had a 4 week holiday during which the painful demands of my likes and dislikes largely fell away. This was a huge relief! I was able to go about my daily life with an equinimity I hadn't experienced before. I was worried this would stop and the familiar demands 'of the habitual self' would return when I got home.
Having been home for 5 weeks I still feel this sense of freedom. It feels light. It changes my life by making fewer demands on experience and lets go of regrets and unsettled scores with family and friends. I laugh more!
Am I answering your questions in a useful way?
love appicha

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cosmiK
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Re: Ready to be guided...

Postby cosmiK » Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:49 am

Hi Appicha,

Thanks for your responses.

Be Mindful of Expectations of what this process / seeing of no-self will bring. Expectations are simply attachments to a future/self, and will NOT serve you. Put your 110% effort in to this process.

So in your responses you refer a lot to this self, as such:
"my daiy life"
"my likes and dislikes"
also a lot of references to "I"/"me". It is fine that we use this language for communication, yet I would like to know what you mean when you refer to this.

What do these words ("I" / "me") point to?

What is your understanding of the separate self... the "I"/"me"? of You?

Stick to your own present moment investigation, without theoretical/philosophical/spiritual speculations.
Please use the quote function to respond to each question separately please.

with Love.

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shantijoe
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Re: Ready to be guided...

Postby shantijoe » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:01 pm

Hi CosmiK
"my daiy life" this means the tasks such as washing, eating, working, walking, driving- all activity.
"my likes and dislikes" This refers to a set of habits that create a sense of self- 'my headache or joy.
"references to "I"/"me" I use these to make the distinction between 'you' the reader and 'me' the writer of this.
I also have a sense of 'me' as the 'doer of the deed'. Though there semms no evidence of a 'doer' the illusion is well maintained!
"What is your understanding of the separate self... " The feeling (rather than understanding) is of 'me' writing to 'you'. When I look at the computer screen I don't 'see' cosmiK but have a sense of someone other than 'me' who will respond. 'Your' replies seem to come from someone else...
appicha x

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cosmiK
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Re: Ready to be guided...

Postby cosmiK » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:41 pm

Hi Appicha,

Let's make our investigation Direct now.
"my daiy life" this means the tasks such as washing, eating, working, walking, driving- all activity.
Okay... and where is the evidence that there is a 'me' that is washing, eating, working, walking, etc?

Where does the 'me' end, and the 'activity' begin?
"references to "I"/"me" I use these to make the distinction between 'you' the reader and 'me' the writer of this.
I am willing to bet you have no evidence of any of that, and any evidence if purely self-referencing and speculative.
Where is the "you" that is reading this?
Where is the "cosmiK" that is writing to you?
I am willing to bet there is vision (screen, letters)
Sensations of 'eye movement', of 'body',
and
maybe a sense of being/presence/aliveness
I also have a sense of 'me' as the 'doer of the deed'. Though there semms no evidence of a 'doer' the illusion is well maintained!
When Awakening is approached, we do NOT settle with "seems", and we do not settle with no evidence. If there is a belief in a doer, then we MUST investigate it thoroughly.
"What is your understanding of the separate self... " The feeling (rather than understanding) is of 'me' writing to 'you'. When I look at the computer screen I don't 'see' cosmiK but have a sense of someone other than 'me' who will respond. 'Your' replies seem to come from someone else...
Find this "I" that is looking at the computer screen? is it anything ever more than sensations/thoughts?

What is this 'sense of someone'? Is that ever anything more than imagination?

Again... more 'seems' :) Lot's of uninvestigated assumptions... this is what keeps the binding to the illusion of separation maintained!

Here is an article from my blog. Please read it. It will introduce a way for us to investigate Experience. We can agree that grass is green, honey is sweet, and soon we will be able to agree that there is no separate self / doer.

http://this-is-cosmik.blogspot.ca/2012/ ... ce-de.html

CONFIRM for me that Experience can be broken down in to these 3 aspects...

Then locate in Experience where this "I" is... and where this "cosmiK" is, and report your results,

with Love.

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shantijoe
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Re: Ready to be guided...

Postby shantijoe » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:13 pm

Okay... and where is the evidence that there is a 'me' that is washing, eating, working, walking, etc?
Where does the 'me' end, and the 'activity' begin?
There is no evidence that there is a 'me'.
I am willing to bet you have no evidence of any of that, and any evidence if purely self-referencing and speculative.
Where is the "you" that is reading this?
Where is the "cosmiK" that is writing to you?
I am willing to bet there is vision (screen, letters)
Sensations of 'eye movement', of 'body',
and
maybe a sense of being/presence/aliveness
You win your bet I have no such evidence
[quoteFind this "I" that is looking at the computer screen? is it anything ever more than sensations/thoughts?
What is this 'sense of someone'? Is that ever anything more than imagination?
Again... more 'seems' :) Lot's of uninvestigated assumptions... this is what keeps the binding to the illusion of separation maintained!][/quote] No, just sensations and thoughts- not 'uninvestigated' that is an assumption!

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cosmiK
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Re: Ready to be guided...

Postby cosmiK » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:17 pm

Wonderful!

let us look deeper at this sense of 'you' being the 'doer of the deed'.

Please read:
http://this-is-cosmik.blogspot.ca/2012/ ... rship.html

Tell me what your investigation comes up for the 3 exercises here.

Take your time, and do not rush to intellectually conclude.

with Love.

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shantijoe
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Re: Ready to be guided...

Postby shantijoe » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:23 pm

"Is it possible there is just Experience, with no separate experience-er? "
Hiya
it's not only possible but very probable however the 'sense of self' is a strong habit! These reflections are familiar and convincing. I'm happy with 'grass is green'- There was nothing I could argue with in the article you pointed me to> I'll try to be as simple and direct,
app x

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cosmiK
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Re: Ready to be guided...

Postby cosmiK » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:28 pm

Hi Appicha,
it's not only possible but very probable however the 'sense of self' is a strong habit! These reflections are familiar and convincing.
Don't even settle for probable. Make sure, and use Experience, here and now to test out any assumptions. And break down any Experience in to the basic components to test out any lingering "I" assumptions.

The 'sense of self' is NOT a problem, and this process is NOT about getting rid of that. It's not about changing anything, or having a specific feeling or experience. This sense of self is a function of Life. What we are investigating is if there is a 'self' that experiences this sense of self? if there is a "You" that that Experience arises to.

with Love.

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shantijoe
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Re: Ready to be guided...

Postby shantijoe » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:42 pm

Hiya
"if there is a 'self' that experiences this sense of self? if there is a "You" that that Experience"
If I was looking for an intellectual answer I would simply agree that there is no 'YOU' in experience. Surely it's about changing something..I think it's about changing the pain and frustration that this lingering sense of 'I' causes,
app x

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cosmiK
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Re: Ready to be guided...

Postby cosmiK » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:54 pm

Appicha,

WHO exactly is going to change pain and frustration?
WHAT experiences pain and frustration?
to WHOM does this Experience belong to? arise to?

this isn't about an intellectual answer. If it was, everyone would be awakened by reading 1 article...

Please take some time to really investigate Experience.

Do the exercises on Doership I gave you, and take your time. There is no rush to answer... this investigation is meant to turn attention towards Experience, here and now, and to trigger the Awakening insight of no-self. It is not about changing anything at all, it is about investigating this false sense of self.

with Love.

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shantijoe
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Re: Ready to be guided...

Postby shantijoe » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:57 pm

CosmiK
thanks for the input. It's bedtime here so I'll consider you questions tomorrow and get back to you,
g'night, app x

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cosmiK
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Re: Ready to be guided...

Postby cosmiK » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:03 am

Sleep well,

respond when you've had a chance to thoroughly LOOK & Investigate,

with Love.

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shantijoe
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Re: Ready to be guided...

Postby shantijoe » Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:12 pm

WHO exactly is going to change pain and frustration?
WHAT experiences pain and frustration?
to WHOM does this Experience belong to? arise to?
Hi again,
thanks, for the good questions: Who is going to change pain and frustration? The pain and frustration are sensations 'I' didn't create so can't change but change happens-
WHAt experiences them? They are just experience without a 'What'
to Whom: They don't belong or arise to anyone, they simply arise 'in experience

thanks again, appicha x


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