Need guidance to Peace and Clarity

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Bjorn
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Need guidance to Peace and Clarity

Postby Bjorn » Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:31 am

Hello,
I have been seeking for peace, clarity and belonging since the age of 15 and now I am 59, but still I am "on the road".
Yesterday I realized how strong my identity as a seeker is. Hard to settle down, because the "mind seems to be going always onward.
I chose as my academic career religion, not theology, and I am involved in library work in library specialized in religion. So everything revolves around religion.But still I have not seen through this illusion.
Can someone, Neil Jaladeen who answered me in Facebook, guide me through this.

Bjorn

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cosmiK
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Re: Need guidance to Peace and Clarity

Postby cosmiK » Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:42 pm

Hey Bjorn,

I'll be your guide,

There are a few ground rules, please respond to confirm:

1. You agree to post at least every day.
2. I will post questions, and you will answer them.
3. When you answer you answer 110% honestly,
4. and when you do answer, you answer from your direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Long winded analytical and philosophical answers are not needed and may even hinder progress.
5. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this journey. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
6. Please learn to use the quote function, instructions below:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

---

Please start by stating your expectations for liberation?


with Love.

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Bjorn
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Re: Need guidance to Peace and Clarity

Postby Bjorn » Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:08 pm

Dear CosmIK,

I agree to post everyday and answer honestly to your question.
I also agree to put aside other studies. Like to keep up my morning and evening meditations, if that is fine?

Having been a seeker my whole life (at least it feels like that) since the age of 15 until 59. I have realized (today) that I have a very strong seekers identity.

There feels like a wall or a mist I cannot break thru and extremely frustrating and tiring.

What I expect of this is the breakthrough to a life that is saturated by peace and clarity in midst of everyday life. Not to feel like a small ship tossed around by the storms of life, but anchored in Reality.

Would you like me to say something about paths etc. I have been on?

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Bjorn
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Re: Need guidance to Peace and Clarity

Postby Bjorn » Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:33 am

Hello CosmIK,
I have not heard anything from you yet?
Ready to start the process here.

Bjorn

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Bjorn
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Re: Need guidance to Peace and Clarity

Postby Bjorn » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:43 am

Hello CosmIK,
I have not heard anything from you yet?
Ready to start the process here.

Bjorn
Hello CosmiK,
I experience a burning and frustrating feeling. Something is falling away, but I don't get it was is happenig. Strong emotions.

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Bjorn
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Re: Need guidance to Peace and Clarity

Postby Bjorn » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:51 am

Hey Bjorn,

I'll be your guide,

There are a few ground rules, please respond to confirm:

1. You agree to post at least every day.
2. I will post questions, and you will answer them.
3. When you answer you answer 110% honestly,
4. and when you do answer, you answer from your direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Long winded analytical and philosophical answers are not needed and may even hinder progress.
5. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this journey. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
6. Please learn to use the quote function, instructions below:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

---

Please start by stating your expectations for liberation?


with Love.
My expectations for liberation is to stop this suffering, empty feeling of a life in separation. Looking for lasting peace and clarity. To stop the endless seeking and disappointing feeling of never really arriving Home.

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cosmiK
Posts: 1013
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Re: Need guidance to Peace and Clarity

Postby cosmiK » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:42 pm

Hi Bjorn,

My apologies for not getting back to you soon. It was purely a technical difficult with the e-mail informing me that you had responses.

It seems that you are expecting liberation to give you lasting experiences and feelings of peace and clarity. It also seem like you think liberation will CHANGE things. Usually initial liberation is a subtle shift in perspective, and from there a truly Awakened life can begin. Seeking lasting experiences and feelings will get you nowhere and keep you seeking.

Expectations are simply attachments to an imagined future and self and as such will NOT serve you. Drop them. Drop them again, and when they arise, drop them yet again. Put all your focus on this process. I will be here to guide you now and again apologize for my lack of subscription.

So...

where in your Experience, here and now, is there separation?

where in your Experience, here & now, is there this 'seeker' that is seeking something?

you say you want a feeling of arriving 'Home'... where is this home? Is it perhaps that you are looking for a certain feeling, and that you already are Home, right here, right now?

what is missing in this moment?

Let's do this.

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Bjorn
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Re: Need guidance to Peace and Clarity

Postby Bjorn » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:14 pm

Hi Bjorn,

My apologies for not getting back to you soon. It was purely a technical difficult with the e-mail informing me that you had responses.

>>>>That is OK! I am happy to be here!<<<<<

It seems that you are expecting liberation to give you lasting experiences and feelings of peace and clarity. It also seem like you think liberation will CHANGE things. Usually initial liberation is a subtle shift in perspective, and from there a truly Awakened life can begin. Seeking lasting experiences and feelings will get you nowhere and keep you seeking.

Expectations are simply attachments to an imagined future and self and as such will NOT serve you. Drop them. Drop them again, and when they arise, drop them yet again. Put all your focus on this process. I will be here to guide you now and again apologize for my lack of subscription.

So...

where in your Experience, here and now, is there separation?

>>>>The separation seems to be here when this moment is no enough and I set up a goal to achieve in the future. Then there is drive to go from here to that imgagined goal. Then there is struggle, effort, exhaustion. Having been on a path with progressing path of intiations this struggle forward is too familiar.<<<<<

where in your Experience, here & now, is there this 'seeker' that is seeking something?

>>>>If I can be in this moment, there is no seeker. But this moment seems mostly so mundane, flat. So I cannot see that this is it. Or am I missing something.<<<<<<<

you say you want a feeling of arriving 'Home'... where is this home? Is it perhaps that you are looking for a certain feeling, and that you already are Home, right here, right now?

>>>>Home is where the seeking stops. But not seeing what is in this moment and looking for it gives birth to the seeker. At least now this moment seems lacking in life, light.<<<<<<

what is missing in this moment?

Let's do this.

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cosmiK
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Re: Need guidance to Peace and Clarity

Postby cosmiK » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:04 pm

Hi Bjorn,

Firstly, please quote each individual question / area you are going to respond to, for instance like this
Hi how are you?
I am well thank you :)
>>>>The separation seems to be here when this moment is no enough and I set up a goal to achieve in the future. Then there is drive to go from here to that imgagined goal. Then there is struggle, effort, exhaustion. Having been on a path with progressing path of intiations this struggle forward is too familiar.<<<<<
Well you must investigate this supposed separation.

Is 'the future' and a 'goal' ever more than a thought?

Paths of progression are meant to take someone somewhere. There is no such someone and nowhere to go. Yet, you have to investigate this deeply instead of accepting a belief. Instead of thinking about a path, focus your 110% on investigating this apparent someone that is going to go somewhere. Where can you ever go? Only a thought would say you could ever go anywhere. Who is going? Only a thought would ever claim that there is.
>>>>If I can be in this moment, there is no seeker. But this moment seems mostly so mundane, flat. So I cannot see that this is it. Or am I missing something.<<<<<<<
Where is the "I" that can be in this moment?
Is there EVER a seeker?
INVESTIGATE THIS DEEPLY. LOOK AT THIS ASSUPTION. LOOK AND FIND THIS SEEKER. LOOK RIGHT AT IT.

Labels such as "flat and mundane" can be given to here and now Experience, yet it is only a label, only ever a thought.

If this isn't it, then what is? Is there EVER anything more than 'this' ? A thought may arise within 'this' and say there is 'more', yet is it ever more than just a thought. Put all these assumptions to the test. You will be challenging every assumption that you hold dear to you, especially the assumption that there is a you that has to go on some path to become who they already are, the assumption that there is a 'you' that is somehow 'incomplete', the assumption that 'this' is somehow incomplete and needs something from a supposed 'you' to be more completel.
>>>>Home is where the seeking stops. But not seeing what is in this moment and looking for it gives birth to the seeker. At least now this moment seems lacking in life, light.<<<<<
Yes. The seeking impulse is there for a reason. Burn in it. Die to it. Let it completely destroy you. Often what happens is, the seeking impulse is felt, and then thought creates "I am a seeker and I need enlightenment". What a ridiculous wild goose chase. Let the impulse be there, do not 'go anywhere'... like you could ever go anywhere anyway :) FOCUS ALL ATTENTION on the apparent SEEKER... find it in Direct Experience.

Read this article. Confirm for me the 3 aspects also are what makes up Experience for you. And then tell me where this Seeker is:

http://this-is-cosmik.blogspot.ca/2012/ ... ce-de.html

Let's do this,

with Love.

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Bjorn
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Re: Need guidance to Peace and Clarity

Postby Bjorn » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:08 pm

Hi Bjorn,

F
irstly, please quote each individual question / area you are going to respond to, for instance like this
Hi how are you?
I am well thank you :)
>>>>The separation seems to be here when this moment is no enough and I set up a goal to achieve in the future. Then there is drive to go from here to that imgagined goal. Then there is struggle, effort, exhaustion. Having been on a path with progressing path of intiations this struggle forward is too familiar.<<<<<
Well you must investigate this supposed separation.

Is 'the future' and a 'goal' ever more than a thought?

Paths of progression are meant to take someone somewhere. There is no such someone and nowhere to go. Yet, you have to investigate this deeply instead of accepting a belief. Instead of thinking about a path, focus your 110% on investigating this apparent someone that is going to go somewhere. Where can you ever go? Only a thought would say you could ever go anywhere. Who is going? Only a thought would ever claim that there is.
>>>>If I can be in this moment, there is no seeker. But this moment seems mostly so mundane, flat. So I cannot see that this is it. Or am I missing something.<<<<<<<
Where is the "I" that can be in this moment?
Is there EVER a seeker?
INVESTIGATE THIS DEEPLY. LOOK AT THIS ASSUPTION. LOOK AND FIND THIS SEEKER. LOOK RIGHT AT IT.
There is no seeker it is only thought that seems to appear. It is a bit scary, dull, flat to just be when nothing seems to replace the thought stream. If there is no seeker there is no seeking, because there is nowhere to go. I somehow get it intellectualy but it does not hit home, maybe vaguely. I feel like looking into dark, but don't see any shape or form.
Labels such as "flat and mundane" can be given to here and now Experience, yet it is only a label, only ever a thought.

If this isn't it, then what is? Is there EVER anything more than 'this' ? A thought may arise within 'this' and say there is 'more', yet is it ever more than just a thought. Put all these assumptions to the test. You will be challenging every assumption that you hold dear to you, especially the assumption that there is a you that has to go on some path to become who they already are, the assumption that there is a 'you' that is somehow 'incomplete', the assumption that 'this' is somehow incomplete and needs something from a supposed 'you' to be more completel.
>>>>Home is where the seeking stops. But not seeing what is in this moment and looking for it gives birth to the seeker. At least now this moment seems lacking in life, light.<<<<<
Yes. The seeking impulse is there for a reason. Burn in it. Die to it. Let it completely destroy you. Often what happens is, the seeking impulse is felt, and then thought creates "I am a seeker and I need enlightenment". What a ridiculous wild goose chase. Let the impulse be there, do not 'go anywhere'... like you could ever go anywhere anyway :) FOCUS ALL ATTENTION on the apparent SEEKER... find it in Direct Experience.
I silly thought came up, if I don't seek I wil be left behind in the dark.
Read this article. Confirm for me the 3 aspects also are what makes up Experience for you. And then tell me where this Seeker is:

http://this-is-cosmik.blogspot.ca/2012/ ... ce-de.html

Let's do this,

with Love.
I read the article and applied it to my d.E right here. The sitting in the chair is registerd, they pressure on my body. But there is still some I or awareness that registers them, they flash through something.

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cosmiK
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Re: Need guidance to Peace and Clarity

Postby cosmiK » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:58 pm

Hi Bjorn,
There is no seeker it is only thought that seems to appear. It is a bit scary, dull, flat to just be when nothing seems to replace the thought stream. If there is no seeker there is no seeking, because there is nowhere to go. I somehow get it intellectualy but it does not hit home, maybe vaguely. I feel like looking into dark, but don't see any shape or form.
Yes.. there is no such seeker/i/me. keep looking in to your absence.

I silly thought came up, if I don't seek I wil be left behind in the dark.
Explain this in further detail please with reference to what you really feel?

Who would you be without seeking? What comes up?

I read the article and applied it to my d.E right here. The sitting in the chair is registerd, they pressure on my body. But there is still some I or awareness that registers them, they flash through something.
What do you mean there is some "I" or "awareness" that registers them?
LOOK DEEPLY at this assumption.

is there a line of separation between this "I" and everything else?
is there a line of separation between this "awareness" and what is Experienced?


"I" and "awareness" are just labels given to Experience.
is there EVER anything but Experience?
if there seems to be... is that EVER anything more than Experience? :)

----

a few exercises

1) get up... walk slowly...
- is there a YOU that is walking? or
- is walking just happening

2) move your right hand up and down slowly...... then do the same with your left.... and do it with your legs if you want to deepen this...
- is there a CONTROLLER / DOER doing/moving the limbs? or
- is movement just happening?

3) pick any activity in your day

- is there an agent/doer/self behind the activity?
- is the activity just happening by itself?

with Love.

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Bjorn
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Re: Need guidance to Peace and Clarity

Postby Bjorn » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:03 pm

Hi Bjorn,
There is no seeker it is only thought that seems to appear. It is a bit scary, dull, flat to just be when nothing seems to replace the thought stream. If there is no seeker there is no seeking, because there is nowhere to go. I somehow get it intellectualy but it does not hit home, maybe vaguely. I feel like looking into dark, but don't see any shape or form.
Yes.. there is no such seeker/i/me. keep looking in to your absence.
There seems to be a warm, glowing silence.
I silly thought came up, if I don't seek I wil be left behind in the dark.
Explain this in further detail please with reference to what you really feel?


The one left behind in the dark would be the illusory seeker. I think I see that now.

Who would you be without seeking? What comes up?
I would finally be at REST, PEACE.
I read the article and applied it to my d.E right here. The sitting in the chair is registerd, they pressure on my body. But there is still some I or awareness that registers them, they flash through something.
What do you mean there is some "I" or "awareness" that registers them?
LOOK DEEPLY at this assumption.
I just seems logical if there is an experience there need to be an experiencer, how subtle that experiencer might be. Without that, what is that Absence that experiences that experience. I am bevildered.

is there a line of separation between this "I" and everything else?
is there a line of separation between this "awareness" and what is Experienced?


"I" and "awareness" are just labels given to Experience.
is there EVER anything but Experience?
if there seems to be... is that EVER anything more than Experience? :)

----

a few exercises
1) get up... walk slowly...
- is there a YOU that is walking? or
- is walking just happening
Walking is happening, observation of walking happens.

2) move your right hand up and down slowly...... then do the same with your left.... and do it with your legs if you want to deepen this...
- is there a CONTROLLER / DOER doing/moving the limbs? or
- is movement just happening?

3) pick any activity in your day

- is there an agent/doer/self behind the activity?
- is the activity just happening by itself?
with Love.
With Love

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cosmiK
Posts: 1013
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:15 pm

Re: Need guidance to Peace and Clarity

Postby cosmiK » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:38 pm

Hi Bjorn,

You seem to be quoting the entire last response. Would you please mind quoting ONLY the question that you are referring to... If you refer back to your previous responses you quote the entire block and it is difficult to separate what you have said. Just quote ONLY the question I have posed, and then your response, then quote the next question, and then give your response.

for instance
what is 1 + 1
the answer is 2
what is 2 + 2
the answer is 4

instructions are here, the in the link below this line:
http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660


---

I would finally be at REST, PEACE.
There is no such "I" that can ever be at Peace or at Rest :)
LOOK DEEPLY at this "I"... is it there?
will an "I" ever be at Peace?
can a "You" ever be at Rest?
I just seems logical if there is an experience there need to be an experiencer, how subtle that experiencer might be. Without that, what is that Absence that experiences that experience. I am bevildered.
This isn't about logic :) I think you are still identified with thinking. Read the follow article:

http://this-is-cosmik.blogspot.ca/2012/ ... ughts.html

Are YOU the thinker of thoughts?

Can YOU think and choose a thought?



---


In terms of this "what is the Absence that experiences that experience"... what if experience was self-aware?

what if in the seen, there is only the seen, no seer?
what if in the heard, there is only the heard, no hearer?
what if in the felt, there is only the felt, no feeler?
what if in thinking, there is only the thought, no thinker?
what if in Experience, there is only Experience, no experience-er?
what if 'this'...
this Experience,
this Life,
this Appearance,
this Expression,
is self-aware?

it may seem as if there is a separate "You" that is aware of "this"
yet there is no such thing
there is only the appearance of a Bjorn,
that appears in and of this.
in 'this', there seems to arise
...thoughts, sensations, buildings, tables, chairs, floors, trees, birds, flowers, music, ships, stars, sun, moon, walls, cups, Bjorns, cosmiKs, computer screens, fingers, bodies, people...
yet there are no such things,
just the appearance of such,
which arises in and of 'this'
there is never a "You" that is separate from "this"
just the appearance of a "you" that arises in and of "this"
"this" is self-aware
and you are "this"

----
Walking is happening, observation of walking happens.
Is there anyone or anything observing?

----

Pick an object. Look at it.
- is there a "YOU" looking?
- is there just the seen?

Close eyes. Listen to sounds around.
- is there a listener of the sounds?
- is there just the sounds?

Refer to Direct Experience, no speculation.

Often what happens is that a sound is heard, and then a thought says "I hear it", or attention moves to another part of Experience, perhaps a sensation of "head" or "eyes" or "body" and then we label that "hearer" or "seer" or "me", but that is also just Experience, also part of the perceived.

Check for yourself and get back to me,

with Love.

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cosmiK
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Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:15 pm

Re: Need guidance to Peace and Clarity

Postby cosmiK » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:40 pm

When replying... click on the Reply button on the Bottom Left... not the Quote button on the top right. :)

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Bjorn
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Re: Need guidance to Peace and Clarity

Postby Bjorn » Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:20 pm

Are YOU the thinker of thoughts?
Thoughts seems to appear out of nowhere and then just disappear.
Can YOU think and choose a thought?
At least it seems so? I have a green cup of tea in front of me and I can think about it.
I don't get that.
Pick an object. Look at it.
- is there a "YOU" looking?
- is there just the seen?

Close eyes. Listen to sounds around.
- is there a listener of the sounds?
- is there just the sounds?

Refer to Direct Experience, no speculation.
I just feel frustrated and up against a wall and cannot honestly say anything right now.


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