Walking through the gate

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Nina
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Walking through the gate

Postby Nina » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:46 pm

It would be fantastic to have the guidance to enable me to remove the I from my life. this is a special time for me because i met and married my wonderful husband who has recently become liberated and lost the I in his life.
It would be very special for me to join him in his future journey with out the sense of self and the caustic reality of the self limiting I.
Thank You Nina

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idolanuel
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Re: Walking through the gate

Postby idolanuel » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:27 pm

Hi Nina,

My name is Ido, and I will be happy to guide you through this.

If you do accept me as your guide, there are several rules that have to be followed:
(1) During the process, stay away from all spiritual material and spiritual practice, including reading posts in blogs, Facebook groups and so on.
(2) BOTH of us have to write at least once a day, even if to write that "today I can't make it". This is important in order for the whole thing to keep a quick and stable pace.
(3) Honesty is a key.
(4) Forget about all ideas and "spiritual knowledge", they are all irrelevant to this process.

If you accept me as your guide, we can start this discussion with this question:
It would be fantastic to have the guidance to enable me to remove the I from my life.
Who is it that ME who want to move the I?
What are the differences between the who?
When you say "my life", what exactly is the meaning of this my? what does it mean?

:-)

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Nina
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Re: Walking through the gate

Postby Nina » Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:04 pm

Thank you very much.
I do not Know who me is? There is an awareness of the past and a wonderment about the future.
The experiences that i remember some are not <great> however at this time my experience of life with my husband is fantastic. I don't believe for one moment that there is an ownership of life. the experience of living is one thought at a time.
The feelings and experiences of emotional highs and the opposites have coloured the way i think.
Also the very many people that i have worked with and cared about at times has increased my sense of the I.
Thinking this way has been constricting and not constructive because the <me > gets in the way and is not helpful to others.
On reflection of your questions they seem to flow from the reality that I seek.
I am finding it hard to separate the conditioning of self.

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idolanuel
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Re: Walking through the gate

Postby idolanuel » Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:33 pm

Hi Nina,

Ok, that all seems like a very good starting point.

Let me explain the term 'direct experience' before we continue, as this is what we are going to use in order to see through the illusion of seperate self.
The term 'direct experience' refers to our experience of the present moment only. This experience is constructed by 7 things. 5 senses - seeing, hearing, sensing, tasting, smelling.
And in addition to these we have thoughts and feelings.
These 7 things form our present experience.
I don't believe for one moment that there is an ownership of life.
Ok. Though this belief might be referred to as 'right', we are interesting in experiencing it and not in believing in it. So, let's forget it as well.
I am finding it hard to separate the conditioning of self.
In direct experience (as mentioned before),
where (or who) is the one who finds it hard to seperate the conditioning of self? This is something that you should look at. Take the time and try to answer it from your direct experience. No hurry at all. Don't answer from your mind but from your experience.

Do you think that the conditioning should be seperated in order for you to become 'liberated'?

What is liberation?

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Nina
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Re: Walking through the gate

Postby Nina » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:40 pm

Reflections on all of the five senses reminds me of the negative feelings experienced as an adopted and very much unloved child. The recollections of childhood are difficult to come to terms with. the escape was always day dreams, and unfulfilled expectations.
Memory of sitting at the table made to eat food that was cold and unappetising. Remembering Christmas because it was a time of sadness. Leaving home at the first opportunity.
Recollections that happiness and achievements were not shared with family.Recalling the sight, sound,of my children. The emotions of truly loving them and later letting go so they could grow and experience their own lives.
Share fantastic recollections of the birth days and Christmases my children experienced.
Reflections of Florence feeling all of the emotions at the same time while seeing the fantastic buildings in the company of the man I love. The emotions that i share are also related to the work that I have done relating to supporting children. The Direct experience is at its essence all the memories that i have relating to home, work, children and relationships.
I am sure that the sense of self, my defensiveness and fear of being totally open in all previous relationships was caused my the emotional loss lack of so many things that my experience of conditioning as a child and as a wife to my first husband reduced my ability to fully appreciate mindfulness.
I put the I into protecting the self even though i did understand this was an illusion. I can not influence another persons ad-gender.
Yes i do think my childhood conditioned me in many ways. My memory of the childhood experience is only a memory it is in the past and can not be changed. However these experiences are in the past.

When i look at the canal out side my home I see the water the many levels of intensity of the colours in the sky, the more that is seen the less thought.
Thank you Nina

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idolanuel
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Re: Walking through the gate

Postby idolanuel » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:03 am

Nina,
I really enjoyed reading this, it made me very emotional :-)

What about the questions?
When you answer them, plz use the 'quote' function. you can find the instructions here: http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

Peace

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Nina
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Re: Walking through the gate

Postby Nina » Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:57 am

Dear Idolanuel thank you,
The questions I understand that i constrain myself
In direct experience (as mentioned before),
where (or who) is the one who finds it hard to separate the conditioning of self? This is something that you should look at. Take the time and try to answer it from your direct experience.
The sense of I the unreal self finds it difficult to separate from the constructs that I made up to protect me.
I do understand this is an illusion and the things that occurred in the past are just memories.
It was part of the life path that I went through difficult times and that I used the <I> to prevent further pain and harm. This difficult I that i constructed was there to protect me.
This is an illusion because in the now i do have the knowledge to learn from the past and choose to react in a positive caring way to new ideas interactions from all five senses.
The I in this could be described as a needy child. Words are a tool to communicate leaving the illusion of I and living with just the information from the 5 senses with out constructing protection form the past must be a step in my liberation

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Nina
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Re: Walking through the gate

Postby Nina » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:36 pm

What is liberation for me?
What do i understand about Liberation?
I feel that i am starting to sense the possibility of freedom and liberty.If i can recall memories of lectures about freedom and free will i could answer from philosophy that will not do they are the thoughts and feelings and experience of others.
I want to feel free from the constraints of the past and curious about the possibilities in the present and free to dream of the future not contained by the constructs and self illusion of the constructed self or I.
To fly with out constraint and experience with out illusion see things as they are and experience liberation with out regret or analysis
Thank you Nina

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idolanuel
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Re: Walking through the gate

Postby idolanuel » Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:46 pm

The sense of I the unreal self finds it difficult to separate from the constructs that I made up to protect me.
I do understand this is an illusion and the things that occurred in the past are just memories.
Understanding is not good enough, as long as it comes from the mind. What we are looking for is an experience. Take a closer look at this - can you find this "I" in direct experience? Can this "I" be pointed at? Is it more than just a thought? This should be experienced. Where is it?

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Nina
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Re: Walking through the gate

Postby Nina » Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:50 pm

Thank You.
watching the kingfisher fly on the bank of the canal in front of my home. Glint of blue so quick that there was just the sight of it. looked at the flash of colour and it was if there was nothing other than the moment.
It was over before thought or opinion or self.
Just the moment.
In the experience just that

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Nina
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Re: Walking through the gate

Postby Nina » Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:58 pm

It is as if there was no I in seeing the Kingfisher. Looking from the prospective of the bird in that moment the bird was flying.
The experience of looking at the water after that moment made me observe that there was nothing other than the experience of seeing.
it seemed important to consider that all the experience was all there was nothing other to consider.
It was if the sight of the blue bird transported all the thought,s in my concious brain to look and see all the facets of the colour.
Nina

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idolanuel
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Re: Walking through the gate

Postby idolanuel » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:22 pm

What happened than?

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Nina
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Re: Walking through the gate

Postby Nina » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:36 pm

No self, seeing, in the moment. Pure sight, no intention, interaction,
Just the wonderful sight of the bird unexpected.
Nina

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idolanuel
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Re: Walking through the gate

Postby idolanuel » Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:19 am

And than what?
Please describe what happened after.

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Nina
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Re: Walking through the gate

Postby Nina » Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:24 pm

looked at the space the bird flew through and recognised that my thinking was only directed at the experience of the Bird,s flight it also wondered what it would look like to look at the woman on the bank from the perspective of the bird. Other thoughts then came in about seeing My physical body from the bottom of the canal through the water really looking. Pondering about what that woman may be thinking.
It seemed like a long time may have only been few seconds. The feelings i had with in I think my brain and mind seemed to well up with a calm emotion a sense of separation from reactive thought.
The sense of reality came back with a bump when a car alarm sounded and the little me the one that i recognise not to be there felt indigent that the moment was broken.
I then had thought,s and struggles that i had glimpsed the reality that there is no i in this only thoughts experience from all the outside stimuli that bombards the mind ,Brain Body all 5 senses.

Nina


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