Looking for a guide.

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Jamie2012
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Looking for a guide.

Postby Jamie2012 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:33 pm

I emailed Ilona directly a couple days ago, but I assume she is very busy so I thought I would post here also to see if she or anyone who is available can help me.

I just found the Liberation Unleashed website last week. I've read about 1/3 of Gateless Gatecrashers, I watched the interview with Ilona and Elena on Buddha at the Gas Pump, and I went through the 5 steps from Ilona's blog.

I am feeling very ready to move forward and see the truth. I would very much appreciate the guidance of anyone who is available. I am ready to begin. Just let me know what to do next. :)

Thank you,
Jamie

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Re: Looking for a guide.

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:09 pm

Hi Jamie,
I emailed Ilona directly a couple days ago, but I assume she is very busy so I thought I would post here also to see if she or anyone who is available can help me.

I just found the Liberation Unleashed website last week. I've read about 1/3 of Gateless Gatecrashers, I watched the interview with Ilona and Elena on Buddha at the Gas Pump, and I went through the 5 steps from Ilona's blog.

I am feeling very ready to move forward and see the truth. I would very much appreciate the guidance of anyone who is available. I am ready to begin. Just let me know what to do next. :)

Thank you,
Jamie
Good to hear from you!

I'm happy to be your guide if you wish. Just a couple of agreements which seem to make all the difference: we post once a day if possible, if only to say we're unable to. We take a break from any other spiritual practices during our inquiry.

If you're in agreement with that, let me know and we can begin.

WIth kind thanks,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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Re: Looking for a guide.

Postby Jamie2012 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:43 pm

Hi John,

Thank you so much for your response.

Yes, I agree to post once a day and take a break from other spiritual practices during the inquiry.

I'm eager to begin! :)

Thanks again,
Jamie

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Re: Looking for a guide.

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:19 pm

Hi Jamie,
Hi John,

Thank you so much for your response.

Yes, I agree to post once a day and take a break from other spiritual practices during the inquiry.

I'm eager to begin! :)

Thanks again,
Jamie
Cool.

So, what brings you here Jamie? Really.

Write as much as you wish. :)

With kind thanks,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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Re: Looking for a guide.

Postby Jamie2012 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:13 pm

So, what brings you here Jamie? Really.
What brings me here is my desire to really see and experience the sense of no self. I feel like I’m right at the gate but there hasn’t been that real “clunk” or “pop” of knowing that tells me that I’ve really got it. That I’ve really realized that there is no Jamie. I’ve learned from reading some of the book and on the website that I should let go of expectations, and I am trying to, but I also feel like I’m not quite there yet.

I can accept on an intellectual level that there is no me really “out there”, but I forget easily if I’m not actively thinking about it. Since I came across the LU website last week, I’ve been thinking about the idea of no self most of the time, when I’m not working on something else. I really feel like I’m not interested in seeking anything else. I’m ready to awaken.

I think perhaps I am right in the middle of the process of realizing it and have started to recognize that it is a process, not a sudden event. However, I was very frustrated earlier this week about why isn’t it happening yet? What else do I need to do? But yesterday and today, I feel more relaxed (which is how I’ve been feeling more and more over the past few weeks) and have been able to let that feeling (of trying to make it happen) go a little and have patience, knowing it will happen when it happens. I can’t make it happen.

So, I guess that’s enough for now. I have an urge to tell a whole “story of me” to make this a little more interesting, but I also have a sense that it would be just a distraction at this stage and I should stick with answering your question and with where I am at this moment. I’m continuing to read Gateless Gatecrashers and I feel like each day I’m a little closer to seeing it, but it’s not quite really opened up yet, and that’s what I’m looking for. But, like I said, trying not to have too many expectations of what exactly it will look like.

Thanks so much for helping. I really think the idea of getting some guidance is really going to make all the difference. ☺

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Re: Looking for a guide.

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:14 pm

Hi Jamie,

Thank you - I appreciate what you've shared. It really helps to look where next.

It's such a funny business, this looking-to-see-that-there's-no-one-looking-to-see. LOL :)

The cool thing is, it's always there, showing itself; and oddly, it's only our ideas about it that get in the way, because they just never match what it is. It's far simpler, more ordinary, than any idea.

So let's start to take away the things that might be in the way, and the sun will start to peep more and more through.
So, what brings you here Jamie? Really.
What brings me here is my desire to really see and experience the sense of no self. I feel like I’m right at the gate but there hasn’t been that real “clunk” or “pop” of knowing that tells me that I’ve really got it. That I’ve really realized that there is no Jamie. I’ve learned from reading some of the book and on the website that I should let go of expectations, and I am trying to, but I also feel like I’m not quite there yet.
Who would you be without the idea of "Jamie"?

No doer, no controller, no owner of things. No "Jamie", no separate self looking out through the eyes thinking thoughts.

As you sit here, LOOK for where you end and the world begins?

Is there a line? Can it be found?

And all the while, this curious awareness...what's that about?

Dig in to this Jamie, give it everything you got, and share what is seen - even if it's the disappearance of the seer.

Speak soon,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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Re: Looking for a guide.

Postby Jamie2012 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:21 pm

Who would you be without the idea of "Jamie"?

No doer, no controller, no owner of things. No "Jamie", no separate self looking out through the eyes thinking thoughts.
I would just be no-thing. I would be thought. I wouldn’t be anything except awareness.

Although I’ve written this down before to myself, writing it here now in this forum makes me feel fear. Which tells me I’m getting close. I think that fear is here to protect me from exactly that which I’m trying to see. That there is no Jamie. So I’m trying to be thankful for the fear which has “protected me” for all this time, and accepting it rather than trying to push it away. And it feels less scary to think about this than it did last week. I’m starting to be okay with the idea that I’m not really in control, I’m not really the owner of anything.

So again, without the IDEA of Jamie, I would be peace, awareness, nothing of this world that I see with my eyes. I see myself using the word “I” but I don’t know how else to say it.

Without the idea of Jamie, I would just be. I would be watching this story of Jamie, not identifying with her but just observing, knowing she is not me.
As you sit here, LOOK for where you end and the world begins?

Is there a line? Can it be found?
Well, it still feels like a line. As though my body is separate from the table or the keyboard or whatever else is in the space. But I’ve had very limited moments where I have a vision that it’s all like a reel of film. It’s all on that reel and Jamie is on that reel and there’s something else (awareness?) that is viewing that whole reel from somewhere else. But even with these visions, I still feel like I’m Jamie.

There is no line. I cannot literally say, oh, here’s the line where I end and everything else begins. It’s all together. Really, not separate at all. I can see this when I really think about it, but I think I could easily slip back into not seeing it this way again too.
And all the while, this curious awareness…what’s that about?
Hmm…I find this question intriguing. I’m just going to wing it for now. This curious awareness. It’s about being over and done with all this seeking and trying and looking. I’ve been on this “path” of awareness for several years, my whole life, never? ☺ It’s like I’ve always known something else is there and I’ve been looking for it in the world. And then, when I read the Disappearance of the Universe 5 or 6 years ago, the concept of the world being an illusion/dream hit me like a ton of bricks. But just the intellectual concept of it didn’t make me really awaken in terms of experience. I thought that would take decades, lifetimes. And then I came across the LU website and realized, maybe this could happen more quickly than I thought? And ever since, I can’t really go back. Nothing else really seems appealing like it did. I just want this done! I’m tired of the charade.

So I don’t know if that answers it or not. It’s as though I know there’s nothing else for me to seek. Nothing else of this world is really going to make me happy long term. I want to be in the flow that I’ve heard others talk about. I feel like I have my toe in, and I’m ready to be more at peace.

Again, I know it’s probably not a big angels and light shining down experience, but I know whatever it is, I’m not there yet.

I’m so very willing to dig deep and I’m open to the disappearance of the seer, although my heart pounds a little at the thought still. I guess I still feel there’s someone to protect here, even if my mind is starting to realize it’s not true.

I'll keep thinking about these and see if anything else comes up. And I look forward to your response. Thank you! ☺

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Re: Looking for a guide.

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:11 pm

Hi Jamie,

Thank you for a great response - it's much appreciated. Let's go through it.
Who would you be without the idea of "Jamie"?

No doer, no controller, no owner of things. No "Jamie", no separate self looking out through the eyes thinking thoughts.
I would just be no-thing. I would be thought. I wouldn’t be anything except awareness.
A thought is just a thought. A collection of thoughts of "Jamie", for example, or "What should I do next?"
Thoughts come and "Jamie" is not the thinker - there is no thinker. Er, yikes! :)
Although I’ve written this down before to myself, writing it here now in this forum makes me feel fear. Which tells me I’m getting close. I think that fear is here to protect me from exactly that which I’m trying to see. That there is no Jamie. So I’m trying to be thankful for the fear which has “protected me” for all this time, and accepting it rather than trying to push it away. And it feels less scary to think about this than it did last week. I’m starting to be okay with the idea that I’m not really in control, I’m not really the owner of anything.
Fear is fear of the unknown from the "I"'s perspective. It's useful and the way to work with fear is to feel it and carry on regardless. At some point, it will get the message that you mean business and wander off.
So again, without the IDEA of Jamie, I would be peace, awareness, nothing of this world that I see with my eyes. I see myself using the word “I” but I don’t know how else to say it.
It's ok to use pronouns - the reality comes through the feeling behind the words rather than the words themselves.
Without the idea of Jamie, I would just be. I would be watching this story of Jamie, not identifying with her but just observing, knowing she is not me.
Yes, the "story of Jamie" is still there, you can consult it, share it, enjoy it and it not be you. All the world is a stage someone once said.
As you sit here, LOOK for where you end and the world begins?

Is there a line? Can it be found?
Well, it still feels like a line. As though my body is separate from the table or the keyboard or whatever else is in the space. But I’ve had very limited moments where I have a vision that it’s all like a reel of film. It’s all on that reel and Jamie is on that reel and there’s something else (awareness?) that is viewing that whole reel from somewhere else. But even with these visions, I still feel like I’m Jamie.
The feeling of being "Jamie" is only a habit of attaching a feeling to a label "me" and then adding the notion that you are that "me". Feeling + label "me" + belief that is me. That's all it is. A well-constructed fiction that has served it's purpose well.
There is no line. I cannot literally say, oh, here’s the line where I end and everything else begins. It’s all together. Really, not separate at all. I can see this when I really think about it, but I think I could easily slip back into not seeing it this way again too.
There is no line because there is no "Jamie". Slipping back only exists in a dream-world where there is a "you" that sees the world from "your perspective". These things do exist, because we maintain them by reminding ourselves throughout the day who we apparently are! LOL :)

Isn't it funny that we have to remind ourselves. Wonder why that is?
And all the while, this curious awareness…what’s that about?
Hmm…I find this question intriguing. I’m just going to wing it for now. This curious awareness. It’s about being over and done with all this seeking and trying and looking. I’ve been on this “path” of awareness for several years, my whole life, never? ☺ It’s like I’ve always known something else is there and I’ve been looking for it in the world. And then, when I read the Disappearance of the Universe 5 or 6 years ago, the concept of the world being an illusion/dream hit me like a ton of bricks. But just the intellectual concept of it didn’t make me really awaken in terms of experience. I thought that would take decades, lifetimes. And then I came across the LU website and realized, maybe this could happen more quickly than I thought? And ever since, I can’t really go back. Nothing else really seems appealing like it did. I just want this done! I’m tired of the charade.
Jamie, *looks over shoulder*, don't tell anyone I told you this but...this curious awareness is all there is. Ssssshhhh. Keep it to yourself.

And we are strolling along quite nicely...
So I don’t know if that answers it or not. It’s as though I know there’s nothing else for me to seek. Nothing else of this world is really going to make me happy long term. I want to be in the flow that I’ve heard others talk about. I feel like I have my toe in, and I’m ready to be more at peace.
Whether you want it or not, doesn't matter a jot - this happens, always. You, we, are immersed in it.
Again, I know it’s probably not a big angels and light shining down experience, but I know whatever it is, I’m not there yet.
Jamie, you can smell it already, I know you can. :)
I’m so very willing to dig deep and I’m open to the disappearance of the seer, although my heart pounds a little at the thought still. I guess I still feel there’s someone to protect here, even if my mind is starting to realize it’s not true.[/quote

And pound it should! It's exciting! Yes, protection, fear, etc...hey, if you had the keys to the kingdom for several years, you would want to hang on too. :)
I'll keep thinking about these and see if anything else comes up. And I look forward to your response. Thank you! ☺
Excellent.

Speak soon,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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Re: Looking for a guide.

Postby Jamie2012 » Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:31 am

Hi John! Sorry for the late reply. I started to write again yesterday, but I really felt like it wasn’t going anywhere. More frustration this morning with trying to make it make sense. This afternoon, I read a couple more chapters in Gateless Gatecrashers.

From something I read, I had an aha! Some things we label are real. Like tree, bird, table, etc.. But I is nothing. Aha! I was seeing “I” as the same as the character Jamie. Jamie is real. But I am not! I've read it dozens of times in this forum and in the book, but it finally clicked!

Then, this part really started to make sense: me is just a label for all the thoughts, feelings, chatter, chatter, chatter (oh my gosh, incessant!), body(?) of Jamie. I envision it as just a clumping together of all these things, which are just thoughts, I have labeled as “I.” To make it easier on myself – haha - just a joke! But these clumps of thoughts do not equal “me.” They do make up “Jamie.” Awareness is not I. There is no I!

When I read this back to myself, in some ways I’m like, huh? Who wrote that? I don’t get it. Still feels like there's an I! I guess that’s me wanting to resist and keep pretending I don’t get it.

Okay, so here’s where I think my mind is trying to get me stuck. I think I mentioned I’ve been studying A Course in Miracles for many years. I’ve been trying to set it aside mentally but some of what I’ve learned there is making me feel stuck in this process. What I’ve believed for many years now is that the WORLD is an illusion, a dream, and so am I, as part of that illusion. So is that true? Are we saying that the characters, a tree, a table are all real in the sense that they are part of the world, which is all NOT I?

For instance, in Gateless Gatecrashers (Christie’s chapter), Ilona writes God=life=reality=One and Self=me=I=zero
From the stance of the world being an illusion, then anything in the world, like a chair or a character Jamie would be not real too. I guess what I’m wondering is if the character of Jamie, the table, the chair are considered real. Or is “reality” the same as “the dream/illusion”. Are the contents of the world I see, that are supposedly real, actually part of awareness? Because if they aren’t, that’s not “real” to me. Real is what lasts, what’s always been and always will be. This is hard to describe, so I hope that explains my confusion.

I really think this is just my mind trying to make me “figure it out” so that I stay stuck. Not going to happen. ☺

I’m having little moments of wanting to laugh/feeling joy and then quickly after a feeling of resistance.

I’ve also had these “LaughCry” moments where I’ll start laughing and then immediately want to start crying. It’s short lived mostly. This afternoon, I saw a man driving past in his car. And he just looked SO RIDICULOUS. It sounds mean-spirited, but it wasn’t. It was just like – how absurd! Just so made up and silly seeming. Absurd. I started laughing hysterically and then shortly after I started to cry. This also happened when I read what you wrote about if you had the keys to the kingdom, you would want to hang on too. I have a feeling what I wrote in this paragraph really matters, but I also think remembering to laugh at the silliness of all this made-up-ness is part of waking up?
Isn't it funny that we have to remind ourselves. Wonder why that is?
I think it’s because of what I wrote earlier. Since we aren’t actually those clusters of thoughts that we are labeling “I”, we have to keep telling ourselves we are or it will all fall apart into oneness instead seeming separation.
Jamie, you can smell it already, I know you can.


You are so absolutely right on about that! I feel like it started to open up to me a little bit more today. I’ve been having this experience of lucid dreaming while awake (don’t know what else to call it). It usually only lasts from a few minutes to a couple hours at most, several times a week. It happened today just after I had my “aha” moment and I kind of feel like this questioning-of-no-self process and this waking dream state are coming together for my “clunk” to happen. We’ll see!

I'm starting to understand that this is a process, not a sudden realization. Each day, something gets a little clearer, my mind is a little less confused.

Thank you so much. This is really wonderful having a sense of someone else who's already there to help me see/see where I'm stuck. I'm so thankful!

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Re: Looking for a guide.

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:16 am

Hi Jamie,
Hi John! Sorry for the late reply. I started to write again yesterday, but I really felt like it wasn’t going anywhere. More frustration this morning with trying to make it make sense. This afternoon, I read a couple more chapters in Gateless Gatecrashers.

From something I read, I had an aha! Some things we label are real. Like tree, bird, table, etc.. But I is nothing. Aha! I was seeing “I” as the same as the character Jamie. Jamie is real. But I am not! I've read it dozens of times in this forum and in the book, but it finally clicked!
Yes. "I" = "Jamie" = socially-conditioned fiction. Sort of a present given to every 3 year old. "Now dear, you'll need this to get through life, because everyone else got one when they were 3 too."
Then, this part really started to make sense: me is just a label for all the thoughts, feelings, chatter, chatter, chatter (oh my gosh, incessant!), body(?) of Jamie. I envision it as just a clumping together of all these things, which are just thoughts, I have labeled as “I.” To make it easier on myself – haha - just a joke! But these clumps of thoughts do not equal “me.” They do make up “Jamie.” Awareness is not I. There is no I!
Yes. All a wonderful fiction that we believed was who we were - and we are not. It served it's purpose for a while.

Lovely to see that.
When I read this back to myself, in some ways I’m like, huh? Who wrote that? I don’t get it. Still feels like there's an I! I guess that’s me wanting to resist and keep pretending I don’t get it.
Yes, identification is a habit, but it breaks down over time. The social-conditioning of the human being known as "Jamie" continues and is worked with as it pops up.
Okay, so here’s where I think my mind is trying to get me stuck. I think I mentioned I’ve been studying A Course in Miracles for many years. I’ve been trying to set it aside mentally but some of what I’ve learned there is making me feel stuck in this process. What I’ve believed for many years now is that the WORLD is an illusion, a dream, and so am I, as part of that illusion. So is that true? Are we saying that the characters, a tree, a table are all real in the sense that they are part of the world, which is all NOT I?
Haven't read ACIM, but "illusion" just means that things are not what they appear to be. At dusk, in the right light, and when the person is a little fearful, a coil of rope might appear to be a snake - this would be an illusion - something appearing to be something else - but the coil of rope exists, as does the snake (as a thought/impression).

All we're looking at here is that the separate self often called "I" or "self" or "Jamie" or "John" is a socially-conditioned fiction which we had believed was who we were - and that it not the case. We came into the world without this fiction. It was made up. It remains made up. It doesn't die or be destroyed, it's just seen clearly for what it is. In that seeing, the belief that we are that fiction collapses. And then...
For instance, in Gateless Gatecrashers (Christie’s chapter), Ilona writes God=life=reality=One and Self=me=I=zero

From the stance of the world being an illusion, then anything in the world, like a chair or a character Jamie would be not real too. I guess what I’m wondering is if the character of Jamie, the table, the chair are considered real. Or is “reality” the same as “the dream/illusion”. Are the contents of the world I see, that are supposedly real, actually part of awareness? Because if they aren’t, that’s not “real” to me. Real is what lasts, what’s always been and always will be. This is hard to describe, so I hope that explains my confusion.
Let's take a table. There's the conventional view of the table - it's real in the sense that it's seen, you can put stuff on it. It has form. Then, in quantum terms, of course it's emptiness. So it's both - form and emptiness.

But at least a table will give you a bruise if you walk into it. :)

"Jamie", on the other hand, is in the category of thought (albeit thoughts/sensations/beliefs) - like Santa, Batman and my personal favourite, Quicksilver.

The human organism that goes by the name of "Jamie" can also walk into tables, if she doesn't look where she's going. :)
I really think this is just my mind trying to make me “figure it out” so that I stay stuck. Not going to happen. ☺
Yes, the mind will try and figure this stuff out and it's just not in the same game. The mind's game is the known, the "I".

When the "I" is not believed in, so we are the "I" no more, then what are we? What's left?
I’m having little moments of wanting to laugh/feeling joy and then quickly after a feeling of resistance.

I’ve also had these “LaughCry” moments where I’ll start laughing and then immediately want to start crying. It’s short lived mostly. This afternoon, I saw a man driving past in his car. And he just looked SO RIDICULOUS. It sounds mean-spirited, but it wasn’t. It was just like – how absurd! Just so made up and silly seeming. Absurd. I started laughing hysterically and then shortly after I started to cry. This also happened when I read what you wrote about if you had the keys to the kingdom, you would want to hang on too. I have a feeling what I wrote in this paragraph really matters, but I also think remembering to laugh at the silliness of all this made-up-ness is part of waking up?
:) Yes, our own folly and the folly around us is both funny and poignant.
Isn't it funny that we have to remind ourselves. Wonder why that is?
I think it’s because of what I wrote earlier. Since we aren’t actually those clusters of thoughts that we are labeling “I”, we have to keep telling ourselves we are or it will all fall apart into oneness instead seeming separation.
Nicely put, yes, falling apart into oneness. All the while, there's that curious awareness. Always there, always on. Even when the "I" isn't looking. Hmmmmm? How does that work then?
Jamie, you can smell it already, I know you can.


You are so absolutely right on about that! I feel like it started to open up to me a little bit more today. I’ve been having this experience of lucid dreaming while awake (don’t know what else to call it). It usually only lasts from a few minutes to a couple hours at most, several times a week. It happened today just after I had my “aha” moment and I kind of feel like this questioning-of-no-self process and this waking dream state are coming together for my “clunk” to happen. We’ll see!
You are starting to drop into awareness - cool - just allow and settle there. No pushing or shoving, it's like the air, always on. Where's the "I"? Gone.
I'm starting to understand that this is a process, not a sudden realization. Each day, something gets a little clearer, my mind is a little less confused.

Thank you so much. This is really wonderful having a sense of someone else who's already there to help me see/see where I'm stuck. I'm so thankful!
Yes, step by step...a really strange, wonderful and mysterious dance.

Sleep well...it's late here and the cat is snoring now. LOL :)

With my best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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Re: Looking for a guide.

Postby Jamie2012 » Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:18 am

So where to go from here? I am still “getting” it intellectually. But I still feel in the same spot with no change in identification as self. Feeling frustration and anger that it’s not happening yet.

I woke up feeling irritable and was really tired today. I slept almost all day which is not “like me.” Is this common for people going through this? I feel exhausted by this process. I want to sleep all the time ever since I started looking for the I. Is this resistance? Even if so, at the same time, it seems gentler to just rest rather than fight the feeling of being tired and trying to do things anyway (which is what I’d usually do). Trying not to fight it and just be, but I feel anger too. Like, I just want to see and get on with it!

I read this and know that all this “I-ing” is exactly the point. I’m still identifying with all these thoughts and feelings and sensations and labeling them “I.” I get it, and yet I don’t.
Nicely put, yes, falling apart into oneness. All the while, there's that curious awareness. Always there, always on. Even when the "I" isn't looking. Hmmmmm? How does that work then?
A couple times now you’ve asked me about “that curious awareness.” So, I guess I will look at that a little bit. I guess I feel a little angry about the question. Which tells me there’s still that part of me that doesn’t want to see the truth. That is angry about being found out and still wants to be in charge. Okay. Angry. Just letting it be anger.

How does the awareness work? It doesn’t work, it just is, I would imagine.

I feel like crying now. Sadness. I guess sadness that this is almost over. This whole charade as Jamie. Just a few more looks, and she will be gone. I know intellectually that she was never there, but just like Santa, it still makes me sad. She tried so hard to be good and liked and all of it. For what? Sucks.

So, awareness. Awareness, to me, is the part of me that KNOWS there is more than this silly little “I” and is gently telling me, wake up. Wake up! There’s no I…look…there’s no I! It’s what’s behind I. Beyond I. It’s what’s noticing all the thoughts, sensations, feelings that appear. But it knows they aren’t “I.”

Again, this is all very intellectual and I almost feel at times like I’m just regurgitating what I’ve read. Because it doesn’t feel ANY different. I don’t expect it to feel totally different, but I know that it must be somewhat different.

I know it’s right in front of my face, but I just don’t get it. So frustrating. Urgh!

Thanks as always for your time. I would be feeling much more lost without your help.

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Looking for a guide.

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:51 am

Hi Jamie,

Anger is the fight for clarity. So you are on the bullseye.
I read this and know that all this “I-ing” is exactly the point. I’m still identifying with all these thoughts and feelings and sensations and labeling them “I.” I get it, and yet I don’t.
See, here's the fiction - check it out: "I am identifying with thoughts and feelings".

Take just ONE thought. Just one. And set about identifying with it. Try as hard as you can to identify with it.

After several attempts and failing to do so...what's that all about?

I feel like crying now. Sadness. I guess sadness that this is almost over. This whole charade as Jamie. Just a few more looks, and she will be gone. I know intellectually that she was never there, but just like Santa, it still makes me sad. She tried so hard to be good and liked and all of it. For what? Sucks.
I know. There is a sadness and a poignancy about it. Though it's the poignancy of the death of Santa. *sorry, couldn't stop giggling and waking the cat*
So, awareness. Awareness, to me, is the part of me that KNOWS there is more than this silly little “I” and is gently telling me, wake up. Wake up! There’s no I…look…there’s no I! It’s what’s behind I. Beyond I. It’s what’s noticing all the thoughts, sensations, feelings that appear. But it knows they aren’t “I.”
Look at your hand. Are "you" looking at your hand, or is the eye receiving the light from the hand? Which has more truth?

Jamie, we are doing fine, moving forward, perfectly well. Relax and enjoy the journey. :)

Warmest wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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Jamie2012
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Re: Looking for a guide.

Postby Jamie2012 » Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:37 am

Take just ONE thought. Just one. And set about identifying with it. Try as hard as you can to identify with it. After several attempts and failing to do so...what's that all about?
So if I try to identify with a thought, I do see that I can’t. There’s nothing to identify with. It’s just a thought. It just happens and it’s gone. It’s imagined. I can’t identify with something imaginary. And if “I” is just a thought, I can’t identify with that thought either. So what IS going on there? How does it work that I think I’m I, if I is just a thought? Just awareness of this clump of thoughts - Jamie - plus awareness that I've LABELED I. But it isn't actually I. Ok.
Though it's the poignancy of the death of Santa.
Made me laugh too when I read that. ☺
Look at your hand. Are "you" looking at your hand, or is the eye receiving the light from the hand? Which has more truth?
The eye is receiving light from the hand has more truth. There is no “me” to look at my hand. It makes sense, intellectually. Still feels like I’m just giving the “right” answer, but there’s no real insight or anything.

Today I am super irritable, cranky. I don’t want to do anything on my "to do" list. I feel angry that “it” hasn’t happened already. I am focusing so much on this to the point that I don’t want to do anything else. It feels almost like depression, except I still have this one thing I’m hopeful about…seeing the truth! But many of the other symptoms of depression are here.

I read someone's story on the forum earlier today and that gave me hope for a little while that this is just part of the process and another distraction/way for my mind to try and keep me from being liberated. I do try to relax into it, but today that has felt nearly impossible. I actually feel today worse than I've felt in months or years. It feels like all this old stuff that I'd gotten a handle on is - all these old feelings - are coming to the surface. Some part of me knows it's not real (or is it the feelings are real, but the part of me that thinks it's me having feelings isn't real). Either way, it's very unpleasant and I'm not really getting a new perspective. I feel very side tracked and off the mark. I know I'm not focusing where I should be (i.e. the fact that there's no me to focus), but man, this is a lot harder than I thought it would be.

Thanks much.

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Re: Looking for a guide.

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:00 am

Hi Jamie,

You're doing great...and we are going to walk along a cool step at a time. :)

When all the crap comes up, it's sometimes the "I"'s fearful response to sensing that you are starting to take away your consent that you ARE this separate "self". Often a good sign, a nice present in crap wrapping. :D

Here's is the direct experiencing exercise in more detail Jamie.

Have a play, notice what you notice, nothing more or less, and share with me what you find:

Bring your right-hand up and hold it naturally in front of your face, about 6 inches away, palm facing.

Look at the palm, the lines, the differences in colour of the skin, the different kinds of lines, raised and lowered portions...look at the landscape of your palm.

Check this. Ask, "Am I looking out at the palm?"

Just notice and enjoy this "you" looking out at the palm. Notice where the "you" that looks out seems to reside. Notice any sense-of-self, sense-of-you. Do that for a few minutes.

Then, continue to do this, but switch the focus...

Rather than "you looking out", isn't it the case that the eye is merely receiving reflected light bouncing of the palm?

So, do what you need to do to shift the focus to being the receiver of light from the palm. Just receiving...

And while receiving...notice that looking has stopped. And the looker?

Explore Jamie...notice what you notice...the felt differences between these two modes, and speak soon.
Take just ONE thought. Just one. And set about identifying with it. Try as hard as you can to identify with it. After several attempts and failing to do so...what's that all about?
So if I try to identify with a thought, I do see that I can’t. There’s nothing to identify with. It’s just a thought. It just happens and it’s gone. It’s imagined. I can’t identify with something imaginary. And if “I” is just a thought, I can’t identify with that thought either. So what IS going on there? How does it work that I think I’m I, if I is just a thought? Just awareness of this clump of thoughts - Jamie - plus awareness that I've LABELED I. But it isn't actually I. Ok.
Good work.
Today I am super irritable, cranky. I don’t want to do anything on my "to do" list. I feel angry that “it” hasn’t happened already. I am focusing so much on this to the point that I don’t want to do anything else. It feels almost like depression, except I still have this one thing I’m hopeful about…seeing the truth! But many of the other symptoms of depression are here.
As odd as it may sound Jamie, and although it may not feel this way, but life is not a problem to be solved - it's an exploration to be enjoyed. Sometimes, it has rollercoaster tendencies, light and dark.
I read someone's story on the forum earlier today and that gave me hope for a little while that this is just part of the process and another distraction/way for my mind to try and keep me from being liberated. I do try to relax into it, but today that has felt nearly impossible. I actually feel today worse than I've felt in months or years. It feels like all this old stuff that I'd gotten a handle on is - all these old feelings - are coming to the surface. Some part of me knows it's not real (or is it the feelings are real, but the part of me that thinks it's me having feelings isn't real). Either way, it's very unpleasant and I'm not really getting a new perspective. I feel very side tracked and off the mark. I know I'm not focusing where I should be (i.e. the fact that there's no me to focus), but man, this is a lot harder than I thought it would be.
There really is no timescale or rush to this. The expectation will obscure what is in front of us, so set any expectations aside. You can pick them up later if you still want to. :)

Take care Jamie...be kind and gentle with yourself.

Speak soon,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne
https://johnchristophercoaching.wordpress.com/

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Re: Looking for a guide.

Postby Jamie2012 » Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:18 pm

Just notice and enjoy this "you" looking out at the palm. Notice where the "you" that looks out seems to reside. Notice any sense-of-self, sense-of-you. Do that for a few minutes.
When I first did it, I initially felt that sense-of-me was coming from my eyes, my brain. That’s where my first thought goes to when I think about the location of the sense of me.

Then, a memory came up, of me looking at my hands in sort of this way as a small child (maybe between 3 and 5 years old). I would look at them and really examine them. I have a mole on my left thumb and I remember really checking it out as a kid. My memory of the awareness I had then seems more like just an observing and less of a me-ing. It's like I can almost remember how it felt before all the layers of me got added on. Before I went to school and was taught that we are our brain, our eyes, our senses. When I think of the awareness at that time, it seems much less “me” and more just awareness, observation, watching.

[As a side note, it makes me realize how much “me” has been added on over the years. When I was 3, 4 whatever, there was much less that was “me.” No job, no career, no husband. That’s all just been added on over time and added into the category of me/mine/I.]
Rather than "you looking out", isn't it the case that the eye is merely receiving reflected light bouncing of the palm?
Yes, it is true that instead of “me looking out” that it is light reflecting off the palm into the eyes.

After I sat and reflected on receiving versus looking out, I got up and was walking, trying to keep this in mind. As I walked past a young man, his powerful cologne “came at me” and I had a realization. I didn’t smell his cologne. Smelling happened. Nothing to do with me. Normally, I would have thought, I smelled his strong cologne. But in that moment, I realized the smell of his cologne happened to my (a) nose (I still want to say happened to my nose, although I realize this is still labeling it me, but…). I realized I didn’t do anything and since there’s no me for smelling to happen to, it just happened. Nothing else. This seems like a tiny opening of real understanding here.

Thanks for your encouragement to be kind and gentle with myself. I'm trusting that it will happen/is happening/has already happened and continuing to try set aside expectations. Good reminder. I know that it's about my continued grasp for control because if I make it happen, then there has to be an "I!" :)


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