Cysquatch

[cysquatch]

Ready...

[Ingen]

Welcome cysqatch, 

Tell me about your self. What is bringing you here?

[cysquatch]

Hello Ingen,

I've been working myself up to this. But somehow still unprepared.

It's as if everything has been leading to this but... you guessed it - still unprepared! "Come to the party and bring your own drink." I've brought a bottle of confusion.

If you want to know where I am:

Feel as if I'm standing at the gate (or at least where someone said there was a gate. Standing here but can't even see the gate. Don't even know how to look for it.

I know my thoughts are not "mine". I see them arise. I can see thoughts happen without a "me" being present. But I still sense something processing all if this. Something "understanding" all of this. Is that thing that does that not a "me"?

The things it pocesses is different or separate from the things other "people" process so that suggests individuality.

[cysquatch]

I know my thoughts are not "mine". I see them arise. I can see thoughts happen without a "me" being present. But I still sense something processing all if this. Something "understanding" all of this. Is that thing that does that not a "me"?

The things it pocesses is different or separate from the things other "people" process so that suggests individuality.

That last part of my post is so false!!!

There is no reason why the things it processes should be any different from any other "persons" experience!

[cysquatch]

Sorry, I said "different" in my last post. I meant SEPERATE.

[Ingen]

That sounds like you are well on yor way.
Who or what is it that is watching thoughts arise?

[Ingen]

Did you find someone processing thoughts? Or do thoughts just appear, one after the other, and sometimes comes the thought " I am experiencing thoughts." On the same level as the other thoughts.

[cysquatch]

I dont know what is doing the processing. But I notice that when i'm not paying attention, the thought seem to belong and be controlled by me.

For example.. if I hear a sound coming from outside the house, it appears to arise spontaneously and i have no control over it. However when i pay attention to the thoughts they suddenly become like the sound outside the house - they happen spontaneously and I have no control over them (hope this makes sense)

But Ingen, I am struggling with what this "I" is thatnappears to have no control. I cant locate it - dont really know where to look.

[Ingen]

But Ingen, I am struggling with what this "I" is thatnappears to have no control. I cant locate it - dont really know where to look.

You can look forever and will never find it. No need to struggle anymore. The "I" that doesn't have control (although this is generally assumed) - doesn't exist.

That's it. Not more.

What does it feel like now?

[cysquatch]

I understand (intellectually) when you say I'll never find it and that I don't need to struggle.

Even though you say it can't be found, I seem to be clinging onto the thought that just because I can't locate it, this doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I think I'm going to need to go and look at this. Perhaps I am carrying too much baggage and have too much expectation of what I'm trying to find. Maybe read too much Tolle/Adyashanti/Mckenna (and more!)

[Ingen]

What are your expectations exactly? Write them down in detail.

[Ingen]

And about too much baggage and reading: I think we all have our extensive seeking history behind us, that is what brought us here. Don't worry, that is not going to keep you from seeing the facts.

Did you list your expectations?

[cysquatch]

Ingen,

Thanks for your PM - its both! No time and as much thinking/contemplation as possible.

I don't know what I am expecting. If I am honest I'm probably hoping that all my problems will dissappear in a cloud of smoke - that life won't be a struggle. I think I have expectations of liberation too - like its going to be some massive ureka event that I'll bring about by understanding everything you say or I read in books etc.

I know that this is false and that "understanding" all this is not enough and that I need to see (that there is no me) but as I said before, I just don't know where to look. I see thoughts arising very clearly now and that I am not the controller. But as soon as I stop looking at this process I'm back to being "me" again.

[Ingen]

Great to see you again.

Your expectations are not false, it is just good if you get them out of your system and put them aside temporarily. We'll take a look at them later.
Stop beating yourself up that understanding is not enough etc.etc. You are doing great:

I see thoughts arising very clearly now and that I am not the controller.

Yes! This is exactly the place to look. Keep doing that. Look how much "you" actually decide. Do you decide which thoughts are appearing?

But as soon as I stop looking at this process I'm back to being "me" again.

Could it be that this is a false assumption? That you only assume that you are back to being "you" again, because this is what you have learnt and everybody assumes? It is like saying: While I look at this mirage, this fata morgana, I know it is an illusion. But as soon as I look away, it is real again. It is not! Consider that what I'm saying here is true.

Your habitual thoughts and feelings will not disappear. But look if you can find something/someone they are arising to.

[cysquatch]

Hi Ingen,

No - I don't decide what thoughts arise - although some seem more personal than others and some seem more automatic. But I think the personal ones are just automatic with a "personal" or "I" tag added to them by the mind.

The "mirage" analogy is good and I am sure this is true - but it is not my experience. When I'm not looking at the process I still get totally caught up in there being a "me" which is experiencing life.

You asked can find something/someone they are arising to. No I can't. I have been looking at that for the past hour or so. Felt kind of strange - a bit giddy. Had to sit down and start this reply. Sorry the reply is short - got to head to work!

Thanks Ingen